Tuning pegs - flawed design

[la bam]

Just a thing we take for granted as the design is almost identical on 95% of basses, but is the standard tuner or machine head a flawed design?

Constantly having to be adjusted (mostly albeit only slightly) due to playing, and always getting caught and turned in transit case or bag.... or catching on something somewhere.

Are these are flawed design we put up with - or the best solution for the job.

 

[EssentialTension]

Mine work fine, I have never thought 'I must get some new tuners'.

[ikay]

Rick Toone (really?) would agree with you - http://www.ricktoone.com/tuner.html

[bartelby]

3 minutes ago, ikay said:

Rick Toone (really?) would agree with you - http://www.ricktoone.com/tuner.html

His tuning systems are works of art. Not sure I'd want one though...

[T-Bay]

And this is what it comes down to I bet, there possibly are technically better ways to do it but they would be more expensive to make and more complex/heavier so maybe less reliable/ hardwearing. Then there is the issue of getting people to buy them, when more than half the bass playing population seems to struggle with anything without a Fender logo on it, it could be a step too far for many. Life is a compromise.

[musicbassman]

.....and don't overlook the simple and basic engineering principle in use for a standard tuner - this is the worm gear drive which is self locking by nature - otherwise string tension could never be maintained. There are other engineering solutions but they are only marginally better and cost prohibitive e.g. Rick Toone's wet dreams for engineers as above!

[EssentialTension]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Spend your money on somehting else.

[chris_b]

If they weren't the best solution they would have been changed by now.

[T-Bay]

That old chestnut, as the engineer in me shouts, so tell your version of best and I will tell you mine..............

[Dood]

Whilst I'm here, I find this to be an idea solution   

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Brook_fan]

When I had my acoustic bass built the first tumers I had on there just didn’t work. I don’t mean that they were a little difficult to use- they simply didn’t work.  The first time I tuned the E to D the tuner snapped 😫 .  These were a very expensive set as well.  Got myself a set of hip shots and can’t imagine anything working more perfectly.

 

Robbie

[ZilchWoolham]

I wouldn't want every bass to be headless, but that's purely for aesthetic reasons. When headless bridges and tuners work as they should (unfortunately my first encounter with them, on a Steinberger Synapse, ended with a 3-string bass) they are incredibly convenient. No worrying about bad windings, slipping or weird angles, and no stretching half a mile past the nut to make fast adjustments. 

[la bam]

Yep, theres no way the popular most common machine head tuner is the best.

[TheGreek]

I've always wondered why the flat part isn't removable and why tuners don't use a T spanner type thingy - like a football boot/golf shoe spanner. This would prevent accidental knocks. The drawback would be that you'd need to always carry the spanner and "quick tuning" for that slightly out of tune string would become a thing of the past.

Seems I've found out why my idea has never taken off. Maybe there's something in what Essential Tension says..

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Skybone]

Or utilise the allan key that you use for the truss rod (in a similar way to headless bridges I suppose).

[Dom in Dorset]

However you do it you'll still need to re-tune to compensate for changes in temperature (ambient or due to contact with your hot fingers) or just because you can't built a playable but totally rigid bass ie: cast iron through neck that's 8" deep. There will always be some slack in the system . 
Pianos have iron frames and no machine heads and still need tuning.
My main bass is headless I still tune it mid gig.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Dom in Somerset

[ikay]

Personally I like quaintly analogue things such as bendy strings and moving parts that need adjusting every so often, but for those that don't ... (fugly warning)

[Mikkoantt]

Hi

My Ibanez GWB105 (Gary Willis model fretless) have these tuners. This is genius solution to every tuning peg problems. 

[TheGreek]

On 14/02/2018 at 23:00, Jus Lukin said:

Not too far from having a drum key in your pocket though.

That's exactly the thing I was thinking of....well the thing I was trying to think of...

[phil.c60]

On 15/02/2018 at 07:46, Dom in Somerset said:

However you do it you'll still need to re-tune to compensate for changes in temperature (ambient or due to contact with your hot fingers) or just because you can't built a playable but totally rigid bass ie: cast iron through neck that's 8" deep. There will always be some slack in the system . 
Pianos have iron frames and no machine heads and still need tuning.
My main bass is headless I still tune it mid gig.

I've almost given up tuning in mid-gig.  My '99 Hot Rod Precision seems to stay within a gnats whatsit for the whole gig but it has got a set of 7 year old flat-wounds on it, although so far my G&L L2000 (USA) seems the same despite a recent restring and set-up with flats. According to my Korg Ptichblack neither varies from  one end of a gig to the other by very much. I still check at half time just in case a tuner took a knock but between songs? Never.

Edited February 17, 2018 by phil.c60

[EssentialTension]

I find it is rare that I have to tune up during a gig.

[TrevorR]

On 14/02/2018 at 23:00, Jus Lukin said:

Not too far from having a drum key in your pocket though. Could work- not that I use one all the time, but I usually manage to have a plectrum in my pocket when I need one. Having a 'bass key' on hand might not be such a bad thing to have to do. Make it the same connection and the rhythm section could hopefully get each other out of a stick when one of them mislays their tuning tool.

Although going headless is even more convenient, I suppose.

The number of people I know who regularly forget straps, plectrums, leads and, in one memorable gig, their drum pedal... ...nope, I can’t see a single flaw in the removable tuning key alternative. 

[mikel]

They are simple, they work and have stood the test of time. A sure sign of a  good design.They are not perfect but few things are. Agreed, removable parts are rarely a good alternative, it would simply add more complexity.

Edited February 18, 2018 by mikel
additions.