Balanced tension strings for Drop A#?

[TomWIC]

I used to use Kalium strings for a Drop C set (130/086/065/047) and then switched to GHS Bass Boomers (130/085/065/045 - close enough I thought) after Kalium shipping became too expensive.

Now the need for a set for Drop A# (A# F A# D#) is going to soon come up and I have no idea how to interpret these tensions charts I'm finding online. I'm happy to switch back to Kalium but I don't know what set what would work best; 142/150/158? Thicker than this?

GHS don't offer anything more than 140 from the look of their BEAD set - could I get away with a 140 if I wanted to stick with GHS?

[Johnny Wishbone]

Not sure if this helps but I have one of my basses tuned to Bb Eb G# C#  (essentially BEAD down a half-step) and my lowest string is a .135.  As Bb and A# are the same note, I would suggest a .140 would be more than heavy enough.  I can't speak for the other strings though as I have no experience of the tuning you are aiming for.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Johnny Wishbone

[Sibob]

Tension has little to do with the gauge, it's the size of the core.

Talk to Newtone Strings, they'll be able to sort a string that tunes to what you need it to, without flapping around, and not necessarily huge guages.
When I had need for it, I was running Drop C Standard (C, F, Bb, Eb) in guages 45-105 with a tension similar to standard tuning.
Obviously you can't tune this strings upto standard, they'd break, but worth setting a bass up for them if it's all you use.

Si

[Dood]

1 hour ago, TomWIC said:

I used to use Kalium strings for a Drop C set (130/086/065/047) and then switched to GHS Bass Boomers (130/085/065/045 - close enough I thought) after Kalium shipping became too expensive.

Now the need for a set for Drop A# (A# F A# D#) is going to soon come up and I have no idea how to interpret these tensions charts I'm finding online. I'm happy to switch back to Kalium but I don't know what set what would work best; 142/150/158? Thicker than this?

GHS don't offer anything more than 140 from the look of their BEAD set - could I get away with a 140 if I wanted to stick with GHS?

You'll be able to work out what off the shelf D'Addario strings to use at that tuning with their very helpful http://stringtensionpro.com app. You'll be able to balance up the tension and tweak it to your preferred feel. This is of course working on the assumption you are on parallel frets, as you may come unstuck if you have a 37" scale length. Then, in that case, Si's suggestion to talk to Newtone is highly recommended. They actually made me a 145 gauge string for a 34" scale bass that maintained tension down to F# which was quite awesome. However, a string with more mass made for the tuning will sound better. I.e., I'm just using up the last of my 183's for my F#. 

[Cuzzie]

DR DDT strings - stands for Drop Down Tension.

Brilliant strings, just the tension you will need either normal tuning or drop, and they sound fantastic, I love them

[Sibob]

3 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

DR DDT strings - stands for Drop Down Tension.

Brilliant strings, just the tension you will need either normal tuning or drop, and they sound fantastic, I love them

How is it possible to have the same tension for normal tuning or drop??

Si

[Cuzzie]

@SibobI’ll re phrase slightly. The tension on how the strings feel are just what I like and that is whether I have them in normal tuning or in drop tuning.

They do lock and stay in tune nicely when changing.

Due to me being a bit dense when changing strings on my 12 string bass I messed up a fundamental string from the D’Addario set, so instead I used the DDTs in combination with the D’Addario octaves. This is a high tension neck as you can imagine.DR’s lapped it up and actually preferred being in drop D and a half step down.

Basically they feel great, sound great, last a long time, stay in tune and don’t get floppy like others can in drop tuning. They are expensive at £35-40 a set, but whatever they did to manufacture it, it’s worth it in my book.

[The59Sound]

Buy a 5 string set and use the lower four strings. 140 for the low string is crazy!

[Guest ixlramp]

TomWIC use the Kalium tension chart. .130 at C has 40.4lbs, for that tension at A# you need a .150 (40.25lbs) so use the Kalium drop tune .150 set or similar gauges in another brand.

On 14/02/2018 at 14:51, Sibob said:

Tension has little to do with the gauge, it's the size of the core.

Talk to Newtone Strings, they'll be able to sort a string that tunes to what you need it to, without flapping around, and not necessarily huge guages.
When I had need for it, I was running Drop C Standard (C, F, Bb, Eb) in guages 45-105 with a tension similar to standard tuning.

> Tension has little to do with the gauge

Very untrue. This is also very common misunderstanding through confusing 'tension' with 'perceived tension', as a few other posters here have done.

'Perceived tension' / 'feel' is determined by a combination of scientific tension and string stiffness.

Scientific tension (a force measured in lbs and seen on tension charts) is determined by string mass only, which is determined primarily by gauge.

String stiffness is determined by string construction: core stiffness (from core size) and wrap stiffness.

Stiffness cannot vary much as a string would become unusable and sound bad, so the primary determiner of 'perceived tension' is also gauge.

 

It is possible to increase the perceived tension a little by increasing the string stiffness, but that causes a darker and more inharmonic tone, and less sustain, like a flatwound. There are 'big core' string brands that do this such as DR DDT and others. So what you can do by altering string stiffness alone is limited, it's much more effective to increase gauge and this likely results in a better tone because the string remains flexible. As dood writes:

> However, a string with more mass made for the tuning will sound better. I.e., I'm just using up the last of my 183's for my F#.

So you don't need a custom string from Newtone.

> Buy a 5 string set and use the lower four strings. 140 for the low string is crazy!

Bad idea as a standard 5 string set already has a relatively loose B, in a drop tuning the tension imbalance becomes even worse. If you're used to Kalium's drop tune sets which have equal tension strings you need to build a set from singles with equal tensions.

Also, a .140 for A# is only 38lbs which is similar to a .100 E, not crazy at all.

[The59Sound]

What's your username on Talkbass? 

[Guest ixlramp]

Me? If so, same username on Talkbass. Why?

[The59Sound]

Knew no one other than a TB member would make such an in depth post about string tension. No one in the UK really uses Kalium strings either! 

[Dood]

4 hours ago, The59Sound said:

Knew no one other than a TB member would make such an in depth post about string tension. No one in the UK really uses Kalium strings either! 

I think that is partly down to the unfortunate problem we have with the cost of shipping, excise and VAT. It ends up being cheaper to use homegrown in the shape of Newtone Strings.