any advice appreciated - apple mac/logic newbie

[skidder652003]

Hi

if this is in the wrong forum mods, please move.

My lad is starting college next year doing a btec in music production, we want to treat him to an apple mac as he will be working with Logic, the wife is willing for us to spend up to a grand (lucky lad) to get him the suitable piece of kit, Id rather spend a little less! Ideally we would like to buy new due to warranty etc. I have an scarletti audio interface which I hope will suffice for now as well as an old analogue desk. Any recommendations about the best route to go down would be much appreciated, I realise that I would have to also get my hands on a copy of Logic as well. Should we be lo0oking at laptops or imacs? Its a minefield out there! Im too old for all this! Thanks Guys/gals, as ever the community is brilliant!

Edited February 22, 2018 by skidder652003

[Chiliwailer]

Lovely gesture. Im pretty sure Apple do student discounts, so might be worth taking that route. That’s about as far as I can help! 

[ambient]

Apple do brilliant student discounts. I can't remember now what I got off my MacBook, but it made a huge difference in the price. I think Logic pro is also available at a discounted rate. Lots of the library manufacturers do generous discounts too. I've got a lot of stuff from the guys at Spitfire audio.

I'd personally go MacBook, that would enable him to be able to work anywhere.

[Ceebass]

UniDays do a 10% discount on all apple products:

https://www.myunidays.com/GB/en-GB

I would make sure that the Mac/laptop you go for has enough processing power & memory. I'm no expert, but if your lad wants to use it for production, it's gonna need to be a pretty powerful machine to support lots of plugins/effects.

[BigRedX]

Unless he definitely needs to be portable, I wouldn't necessarily consider a MacBook. When you go portable you sacrifice the ability to upgrade the memory and you also pay a premium for lightweight portability. 

Put it another way an iMac which costs the same as a MacBook will be more powerful and have a bigger screen - and as a Logic user I know you can never have too much screen real-estate.

What ever you get buy the fastest one you can afford and if possible get the maximum amount of RAM the machine will take.

Also check that your audio interface has drivers available that work with the latest version of Mac OS.

[moonbass]

I would go portable with a MacBook as he’s probably going to want to record a gig or rehearsal at some point, and lugging an iMac around is not fun. I’d also recommend using a LaCie Rugged external hard drive rather than internal, using the Thunderbolt ports they’re easily quick enough, and it stops Logic falling over on complex projects. 

[ambient]

I would definitely opt for a MacBook, just based on my personal experience. I did an awful lot of my degree (music) work on the train, sat in a quiet area at uni, or in the coffee shop on Kilburn high street at break times. Mine is a 2012 MacBook Pro with just the basic 4GB of memory, and I've never had a problem using Logic Pro, sometimes running Logic and Sibelius at the same time as Safari.

 

[itsmedunc]

A MacBook would be great for him but they are expensive, especially if you are buying new. I'm using a Mac Mini and it's very good but portability has already become an issue for me so, I would imagine portability would be a must for a student.

I don't know how responsible your son is but I know my lad and he breaks everything portable! His room is full of smashed Apple products. If I was buying for mine he would definitely get a refurb or secondhand with some sort of warranty.  There's always new for old on the house insurance too!

Whatever you decide to get, try and get as much RAM as possible for your budget. Saw some Logic X licences from old machines on eBay for a tenner recently. They may be worth looking at but I'd do some investigation first.

Good luck!

[Frank Blank]

MacBook with the discount and get an external drive. I run Logic Pro X on mine and it’s fine.

[Shambo]

WAIT until he's started his course, got settled in, spoken to his tutors and come to understand exactly what hardware he needs to progress with his studies. He won't need a new mac on the first day of his course and will have a better understanding of exactly what's needed after 3-4 months.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Shambo

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, itsmedunc said:

Saw some Logic X licences from old machines on eBay for a tenner recently. They may be worth looking at but I'd do some investigation first.

Be very wary about buying a second-hand Logic licence. Unless it comes with a box and all the install discs its cloned and probably won't work. Also the latest version Logic X is only available as a direct download from the App Store and is linked to your Apple ID so can't be transferred. The file format has changed from Logic 9 so while Logic X will open up older versions projects (7, 8, and 9) older versions won't be able to open Logic X songs.

[Romeo2]

macbook pro and logicx is a mighty combination, my macbook is now 7 years old, after upgrades to RAM and hdd to ssd it's still going strong, with a firewire focusrite saffire interface I can record like a pro (but I don't :D) - so if he respects what he gets from you guys then it will last him through uni and beyond

problems with new macbooks he may face are: unable to upgrade capacity of ssd (i think they now solder them to motherboards and charge a fortune for successive increases, 256 vs 512 is way more than if you upgraded yourself, greedy bastards) but ssd's are getting cheaper and cheaper so he can have an external drive for backups or more space (and he may need it since recording sessions in logic get big) and poor input / output options, limited to usb-c only (i think, have not looked for a while now) - now this annoys me no end, you buy a very expensive computer and you immediately need to spend more to connect anything that does not run on usb-c, say a thunderbolt interface

uni discounts used to be 14% so definitely wait for him to get his uni details before buying!

 

he can thank us all later

[skidder652003]

thank folks, im veering towards second hand as im balking at the price of new, can't believe just how expensive the mac book pro's are. Im getting the impression that these things are built to last longer than your average laptop? If anyone could recommend the best way to look for a used macbook ( im wary of ebay)

Edited February 23, 2018 by skidder652003

[BigRedX]

I'd start by looking at clearance and refurb deals from Jigsaw and Apple. These will have been tested and repaired if necessary and come with a full warranty. Those bought from Apple used to come with full 3 years AppleCare as well - I don't know if that is still the case.

On the whole Macs do tend to last longer. My current MacPro is 10 years old and still going strong running Adobe CC and Logic and is the Mac I use to make a living doing artwork and graphic design - although it was pretty much the best MacPro you could get when it was brand new. This Mac will only get replaced when Adobe CC requires a newer version of Mac OS then mine can run. My MacBook Pro is a 2012 model (EoL'd from John Lewis - also worth a look for clearance deals).

Personally I wouldn't have a problem buying second hand off eBay (my current MacPro was bought that way for the grand sum of £350), but then I know what I'm looking for and my first action when buying any used Mac is to wipe the hard drive completely and re-install the OS from scratch. If you do go the second hand route, don't be tempted by offers of installed software unless the seller is also prepared to supply the original discs (if it was't a download) and serial numbers. Also remember that any software bought from Apple's App Store is tied to the Apple ID of the person who bought it and therefore cannot be transferred to a new user.

[skidder652003]

2 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

I'd start by looking at clearance and refurb deals from Jigsaw and Apple. These will have been tested and repaired if necessary and come with a full warranty. Those bought from Apple used to come with full 3 years AppleCare as well - I don't know if that is still the case.

On the whole Macs do tend to last longer. My current MacPro is 10 years old and still going strong running Adobe CC and Logic and is the Mac I use to make a living doing artwork and graphic design - although it was pretty much the best MacPro you could get when it was brand new. This Mac will only get replaced when Adobe CC requires a newer version of Mac OS then mine can run. My MacBook Pro is a 2012 model (EoL'd from John Lewis - also worth a look for clearance deals).

Personally I wouldn't have a problem buying second hand off eBay (my current MacPro was bought that way for the grand sum of £350), but then I know what I'm looking for and my first action when buying any used Mac is to wipe the hard drive completely and re-install the OS from scratch. If you do go the second hand route, don't be tempted by offers of installed software unless the seller is also prepared to supply the original discs (if it was't a download) and serial numbers. Also remember that any software bought from Apple's App Store is tied to the Apple ID of the person who bought it and therefore cannot be transferred to a new user.

this is great advice, thank you.

[EBS_freak]

I concur with the above. I wish I had gone Mac years ago. It would have prevented my burning through a load of mid priced PCs for years. To echo what has already been said, buy the best that you can afford and expect a long time of trouble free computing. My bro's macbook is 11 years old now... and still going strong and is plenty fast enough for what he uses it for.

For Logic though, get as good a processor and as much RAM as you can afford. With regard to the screen real estate, a cheap external monitor will solve that (appreciate that it's an extra outlay). My 4 year old Mac 13" is great for on the move although I do wish I still had the bigger screen that i had for a while.

 

[ahpook]

13 hours ago, Shambo said:

WAIT until he's started his course, got settled in, spoken to his tutors and come to understand exactly what hardware he needs to progress with his studies. He won't need a new mac on the first day of his course and will have a better understanding of exactly what's needed after 3-4 months.

This, 100%.

 

[EBS_freak]

2 minutes ago, ahpook said:

This, 100%.

 

Good point - the college my friend teaches at, actually has a room full of Macs running Logic X/Protools and a dedicated project studio for tracking/mixing and mastering. The bulk of the work can be done on the drop in Macs.

[BigRedX]

Some more seemingly random observations that are actually interlinked.

Whatever you end up getting, make sure it is capable of running whatever is the latest version of Mac OS at the time you buy it. Right now that's High Sierra. The thing that makes Macs obsolete more than anything these days is when they can no longer run the latest OS and then by extension the latest software.

Another reason not to buy a second-hand copy of Logic. Because the latest version is a App Store only purchase and tied to the purchasers Apple ID there are no legitimate copies for sale second hand. That means the only legal copies of Logic that you can get are Logic 9 and earlier. Of these only Logic 9 will run on the most recent versions of Mac OS (and personally I would bother with anything earlier than El Capitan for a new machine) and even then getting to install and run is a bit of a faff and not something I would want to inflict anyone who isn't well versed in Mac troubleshooting.

[Frank Blank]

2 hours ago, skidder652003 said:

thank folks, im veering towards second hand as im balking at the price of new, can't believe just how expensive the mac book pro's are. Im getting the impression that these things are built to last longer than your average laptop? If anyone could recommend the best way to look for a used macbook ( im wary of ebay)

They are expensive but they are built to last, cheap laptops are a false economy IMHO.

[kendall]

I have a MacBook that I bought in 2010.  I have upgraded the RAM and that is all.  It still works perfectly.  In this time, I have burned through 6 Dell/HP/An.other laptops at work.

You do get what you pay for.

 

[skidder652003]

Thank you all everyone, its been a real quick education. In the end Ive got myself an imac from this here very parish, as ever Basschat come up with the best deals!

Having spoken to the college, they use imacs there and can loan out macbooks for live work, so thats the way ive decided to go, more bang for buck over a macbook pro.

Thanks everyone, now to find out if I can get a genuine cheap copy of logic (not likely!)

[ivansc]

It is worth seriously considering what I did. 2011/12 Mac Mini i7 Server.

Mine came with Logic Pro 9 the full Office 2010 for Mac, 8 gb of ram and two 500gb  hard drives, plus TWO keyboards, mouse and swanky designer bag. I paid around £550 for the lot and it is excellent. The significance of the model and year are that 2011 and 2012 is the last year Minis came in a solid aluminium case & its the last time they could be upgraded after purchase up to 16gb., plus of course you can put whatever combination of hard drive in there you like - either 2 HDD or 2 SDD or any combination.  Love mine.  Forgot to add that those two year models will happily do either 1920 x1200 or full retina graphics.