Ceiling Mounted Wedges/Panels

[SpondonBassed]

I have an itch that needs scratching.

In the living room I have a 7.1 capable Denon AV receiver.  I have it set up for 5.1 and I am struggling to find a way of accommodating an additional pair of cabs.  I'd like to use the height setting in the 7.1 configuration.  To cut it short The only option that I think will work soundwise and without using PA type floor stands is to mount a pair of wedges on the ceiling joists above the existing front pair of cabs.

I haven't refined my ideas yet.  It might be that there is already a suitable speaker cabinet for the purpose on the market.  I think I'll do a build anyway.  It should save money and I have more control over the way the installation looks in my living room.

Electrostatic panels might work even though each one would need power as well as a signal.  I am keeping an open mind so ideas are welcome.

[RichardH]

This could be what you need

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/282853202559?rt=nc

Mission 77DS surround speakers - seem to go for around £25 a pair secondhand. They were well over £100 new back in the day. You can mount them hard up to the ceiling ("upside down" so they fit where the ceiling/wall meets), and they are very unobtrusive - I have two pairs in our home cinema/music room for 7.1 (set for side and rear - and they are excellent). If you hunt around you can find them in white too.

To be honest I am out of touch so the height thing is not something I am aware of, so you may want something more directional if these are intended to be extra front speakers - these speakers have two drivers operating as dipoles for surround-y-ness.

 

[RichardH]

...but it could be worth just using a couple of PA speaker stands and whacking a couple of PA speakers in place (if you have access to a couple of passive ones) just to try it out before spending ££ on a build.

[SpondonBassed]

2 hours ago, RichardH said:

This could be what you need

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/282853202559?rt=nc

Mission 77DS surround speakers - seem to go for around £25 a pair secondhand. They were well over £100 new back in the day. You can mount them hard up to the ceiling ("upside down" so they fit where the ceiling/wall meets), and they are very unobtrusive - I have two pairs in our home cinema/music room for 7.1 (set for side and rear - and they are excellent). If you hunt around you can find them in white too.

To be honest I am out of touch so the height thing is not something I am aware of, so you may want something more directional if these are intended to be extra front speakers - these speakers have two drivers operating as dipoles for surround-y-ness.

 

I think I know what you mean but could you explain in case I've got it wrong please?

What do bipoles or dipoles do?  To me that suggests that sound would be broadcast from two axis.  I'd like to understand that better because I've seen it said that Monitor Audio's BXFX  is switchable between bipole and dipole modes but I am not convinced that the author knew what he was on about.  It probably would be best to have wide dispersal for the ceiling installation.

I want to use the height encoding for cinema viewing mostly.  I'm happy with the distribution of sound at ear level as I have 2 x Heco Superior @ front, 2x KEF Q300 @ rear, Bower & Wilkins CM Centre @ centre and a Wharfdale SW150 sub.

1 hour ago, RichardH said:

...but it could be worth just using a couple of PA speaker stands and whacking a couple of PA speakers in place (if you have access to a couple of passive ones) just to try it out before spending ££ on a build.

Yes.  I had already considered stands and the odd shape of my living room makes the stands impractical.  I am not really sold on the idea of having large speakers hanging from my living room ceiling joists either.  You have however given me an idea of the sort of enclosure that would be less intrusive.

I take your point about expense and £25 does sound attractive.  I am still undecided whether to buy off-the-shelf, so to speak or whether to build.  It would be hard to improve on those sort of prices but then I'd miss out on the pleasure of the build and its end result.

[RichardH]

Yes, dipoles contain twin speakers that spread the sound. Having said that, the 77DS still kick botty - we watched the bluray of Bladerunner 2049, which has some very strong sweeping surround stuff going on, and there was no lack of rear aural pleasure, and very good placement of the audio.

Thinking about it, I would imagine that these height endoded speakers are also acting as an effect/surround source - so not for mega pinpoint stuff etc.

To illustrate what I mean about how they are mounted, here's a photo of our room looking back from the screen - there are two 77DS mounted at the back over the hanging rug, as well as the ones on the side walls.

Edited February 25, 2018 by RichardH
typo

[RichardH]

...From a quick google, both bi and dipole speakers use paired drivers to produce diffuse sound, but the difference is whether the drivers within the cab are in our our of phase with each other. So I guess it would be possible to offer a switch to flip between the two modes.

Edited February 25, 2018 by RichardH

[Norris]

Many years ago a mate of mine was a bit of a hi-fi buff and had bought some spanky new speakers. I had recently bought some car rear shelf speakers. For a laugh we A-B'ed them with his hi-fi and were rather surprised at just how good the car speakers sounded. 

... which is a roundabout way of suggesting that some rear shelf car speakers might fit the bill for compact side fill on your surround sound 

[JPJ]

If it’s for home cinema, then you’d probably get a better effect from a single centre speaker directly below or behind the centreline of your screen. The longitudinal centre speakers in 7:1 really need to be at ear level when you are sitting in the ‘sweet spot’ of the room to be effective. For 7:1 to work effectively you need the right shaped room finished with the right materials. I have customers who spend literally hundreds of thousands on cinema setups and if the room is the wrong shape (which we tell them at the outset) then no amount of speakers makes a difference, even from high-end brands such as James and CAT.

[SpondonBassed]

4 hours ago, Norris said:

Many years ago a mate of mine was a bit of a hi-fi buff and had bought some spanky new speakers. I had recently bought some car rear shelf speakers. For a laugh we A-B'ed them with his hi-fi and were rather surprised at just how good the car speakers sounded. 

... which is a roundabout way of suggesting that some rear shelf car speakers might fit the bill for compact side fill on your surround sound 

The car speaker idea has not been ruled out yet.

4 hours ago, JPJ said:

If it’s for home cinema, then you’d probably get a better effect from a single centre speaker directly below or behind the centreline of your screen. The longitudinal centre speakers in 7:1 really need to be at ear level when you are sitting in the ‘sweet spot’ of the room to be effective. For 7:1 to work effectively you need the right shaped room finished with the right materials. I have customers who spend literally hundreds of thousands on cinema setups and if the room is the wrong shape (which we tell them at the outset) then no amount of speakers makes a difference, even from high-end brands such as James and CAT.

I have a centre speaker in a long established 5.1 set-up.  My Denon AVR X3000 does a self calibration to the room and I was quite happy with it.

The intention is to have the new speakers positioned near the ceiling to take advantage of the 'Height' feature in 7.1 surround encoded blu ray films (for helicopter effects I suppose) so it's got to be a pair.

They're going to be on a 180 Watt per channel (Peak) amp.

The ebay examples like the one @RichardH posted are looking like good value.  It would be difficult to match that with a self-build.