Jus Lukin Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) - Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 My experience of democracy in bands is like herding cats. I now work for band leaders. I sometimes get to make suggestions and if my comments are positive and helpful I can be listened to, but mostly these guys know what they are doing without my help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 38 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said: Usually works out more expensive to go for #2 though! Number 2 usually means getting paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I suppose it depends why you're in a band and what type of band, personally I wouldn't be happy playing stuff I don't like, and wouldn't really expect anybody else too, but we're all different. As for getting paid, yes you're more likely too if you're just a hired hand but not necessarily so, I know an originals band that is run by the singer/songwriter and they hardly ever get paid for gigs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, ivansc said: As a singer who plays and a player who sings, can we not lose sight of the fact that it is SONGS we are talking about. The band`s job is to support the singer, not force him to perform the song faster or slower than he feels like on the night. Thats is OK if you are playing tunes but then it is the person who plays the melody who has the right to set tempo. Any other interpretation you put on this is showing your own personal bias (and very likely inadequacies too!) We are there to help, not police. (end of rant) What a load of rubbish. Its the job of the singer to sing and be the focal point (most of the time). If the singer is part of a band then he is part of a band. Its a team effort. If the band (inc the signer) rehearse a song why does the singer get to change things on the night without asking the other's?. What if someone else in the band is struggling to play faster? The whole night could go to pot if the band cant keep up. A singer is a singer, not some sort of higher being. I do realise that a lot of singers feel they are 'god', and its only them on stage, but just because they think that doesn't mean its true, and anyone with an ego that size really should check themselves in to a clinic. If you are hired to back a singer then fair enough, you do as you are told, but if you are a band then the singer has no right to expect to call the shots, unless he is a Richard. Edited February 27, 2018 by dave_bass5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 3 - It claims to be a collective where everyone has input and veto, but it turns out some are more equal than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) - Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 On 26/02/2018 at 17:27, stingrayPete1977 said: What about instrumental songs? Singers ego (grin) Didnt read my post properly, did you? And I quote: Thats is OK if you are playing tunes but then it is the person who plays the melody who has the right to set tempo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 On 27/02/2018 at 15:52, dave_bass5 said: What a load of rubbish. Its the job of the singer to sing and be the focal point (most of the time). If the singer is part of a band then he is part of a band. Its a team effort. If the band (inc the signer) rehearse a song why does the singer get to change things on the night without asking the other's?. What if someone else in the band is struggling to play faster? The whole night could go to pot if the band cant keep up. A singer is a singer, not some sort of higher being. I do realise that a lot of singers feel they are 'god', and its only them on stage, but just because they think that doesn't mean its true, and anyone with an ego that size really should check themselves in to a clinic. If you are hired to back a singer then fair enough, you do as you are told, but if you are a band then the singer has no right to expect to call the shots, unless he is a Richard. Don't sing then, do you? The comment about singers thinking they are god is not only puerile, it also misses the point entirely. And you ARE differentiating between "showing consideration for the other members of the band not being able to keep up" and "some arrogant singer who wants a song done at his speed" - a speed he can sing it at on the night....... The singer IS a member of the band too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 On 26/02/2018 at 17:54, Dad3353 said: So what's the score if the singer wants to sing a number slowly, and it turns the song into a pig's ear..? Go with the singer's choice..? Surely not..? I know you don't want to hear this, but if you (and the rest of the band) are good enough, this is easy. Last night I did yet another gig with my usual drummer and bassist (I play guitar and sing in this band) and a guest guitar player. Not only did I do a whole bunch of songs they had never even heard before, I did a couple of the ones they DID know at slightly different tempos to suit the evening's groove. YES there were a few bum notes, but since we get a set fee AND a whip round at this gig, I am pleased to say that my singerly petulance got us the best payday we have made so far at this gig. Happiness is a full bucket. I suppose I ought to add we don't just do a bunch of 12 bar blues. Beginning to realise a lot of you guys really do treat being in a band like an evening down the pub with your mates. *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, ivansc said: I know you don't want to hear this, but if you (and the rest of the band) are good enough, this is easy. Last night I did yet another gig with my usual drummer and bassist (I play guitar and sing in this band) and a guest guitar player. Not only did I do a whole bunch of songs they had never even heard before, I did a couple of the ones they DID know at slightly different tempos to suit the evening's groove. YES there were a few bum notes, but since we get a set fee AND a whip round at this gig, I am pleased to say that my singerly petulance got us the best payday we have made so far at this gig. Happiness is a full bucket. I suppose I ought to add we don't just do a bunch of 12 bar blues. Beginning to realise a lot of you guys really do treat being in a band like an evening down the pub with your mates. *sigh* Not sure how a singer could change the tempo without dragging or pushing in most songs (which would be pretty unprofessional) as it's very rare that he or she starts the song. I definitely don't treat being in a band like a night down the pub with my mates. It's my core income and I am md in a busy function band. We would have no issues replacing a singer that tried to change things based on his or her own judgement of what tempo is right on the night. I have been lead singer in various bands including contract bands on cruises and hotels. At present I only do bvs. Edited March 3, 2018 by mrtcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 4 hours ago, ivansc said: I know you don't want to hear this, but if you (and the rest of the band) are good enough, this is easy... You've nimbly side-stepped the question, though. I'll put it again... So what's the score if the singer wants to sing a number slowly, and it turns the song into a pig's ear..? Go with the singer's choice, turning the song into a pig's ear..? Really..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 5 hours ago, ivansc said: (grin) Didnt read my post properly, did you? And I quote: Thats is OK if you are playing tunes but then it is the person who plays the melody who has the right to set tempo. Regardless of rights or wrongs, the tempo is almost always set by the first person to do anything, which is normally the drummer, occasionally the bass player, occasionally the guitarist, and very rarely, the singer. Because if someone comes in at a different tempo than the song is already going, however good you are it is not going to sound good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolo Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 What setting are we on about? Folksongs in the pub? Weddings and function where punters need to show their strictly skills? Progrock in small to medium venues? Musical numbers? Thrash Metal? Sometimes (quite a lot I've noticed) we forget that we all have a different frame of reference. Most bands I know rehearse their songs the way they need to be played on the night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 16 hours ago, ivansc said: Don't sing then, do you? The comment about singers thinking they are god is not only puerile, it also misses the point entirely. And you ARE differentiating between "showing consideration for the other members of the band not being able to keep up" and "some arrogant singer who wants a song done at his speed" - a speed he can sing it at on the night....... The singer IS a member of the band too. Well that’s your opinion and you are of course more than a entitled to it. Just don’t expect me to agree with it if i feel differently, especially when you make a blanket statement that’s obliviously just your opinon Ive worked with singerss who dont give a toss about the rest of the band, it’s the singer people have come to see and we are just there in the background. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steantval Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 If certain songs are speeded up by the band, the vocalist can have some serious issues. Two songs that come to mind that have a lot of words crammed into the songs at their normal tempo, Two Princes - Spin Doctors and Too Hard To Handle - Black Crowes, play these too fast at your peril and the vocalist will not be able to fit the words in or catch a breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 IME every song has a 'sweet spot' tempo. If songs are played at the 'right' tempo (generally meaning the feel and groove are 'right' and everyone's comfortable with it), then it will sound good. This is usually the tempo at which the song has been rehearsed, or very close to it. Playing songs at the right tempo live is what separates good bands from not-so-good bands. Chuck Berry could get away with changing tempi on the fly. Everyone else, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 after hearing the Dickies version of paranoid the Sabbath one always sounds a bit ploddy to me (and definitely Nights in White Satin) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 12 hours ago, PaulWarning said: after hearing the Dickies version of paranoid the Sabbath one always sounds a bit ploddy to me (and definitely Nights in White Satin) Yeah but 500 Miles at 150 bpm is not exactly marching pace... Heeheehee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 On 3/4/2018 at 01:48, Dad3353 said: You've nimbly side-stepped the question, though. I'll put it again... So what's the score if the singer wants to sing a number slowly, and it turns the song into a pig's ear..? Go with the singer's choice, turning the song into a pig's ear..? Really..? If he /she is a decent singer it won`t. That is of course part of the problem. First get a decent singer and decent players.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 On 3/4/2018 at 14:01, dave_bass5 said: when you make a blanket statement that’s obliviously just your opinon (grin) obliviously..... and fwiw your blanket statement was a wide-readhing blanket statement than mine. On 3/4/2018 at 14:01, dave_bass5 said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 9 hours ago, ivansc said: and fwiw your blanket statement was a wide-readhing blanket statement than mine. Mine wasnt rubbish though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 9 hours ago, ivansc said: If he /she is a decent singer it won`t. That is of course part of the problem. First get a decent singer and decent players.... Believe me, I've worked with brilliant singers and musicians. None of them would attempt to change tempos significantly on the fly. How does a singer go about changing the song's tempo anyway? He or she would look like a total prat if they started singing slower or faster than the rest of the band were playing. Can you show us some footage of how you do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 surely, whoever starts the song sets the tempo? unless you're using a click track of some sort (having said that we still sometimes speed up when the drummer comes in), as I said earlier lots of bands play tracks faster live than the recorded version, it's called adrenalin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, PaulWarning said: surely, whoever starts the song sets the tempo? unless you're using a click track of some sort (having said that we still sometimes speed up when the drummer comes in), as I said earlier lots of bands play tracks faster live than the recorded version, it's called adrenalin Agreed. That's why our drummers tend to use the old metronome app. It keeps this in check to a large extent. They're not tied to the metronome as it's just a flashing red light on the screen but it means everything sets off at a comfortable pace. Of course a song may have gained a couple bpm by the end but literally only a couple. We do use tracks occasionally at smaller gigs where budget doesn't allow the full band, at which point we're tied to a click anyway. Edited March 6, 2018 by mrtcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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