Headless designing

[jebroad]

Just started designing a headless bass. This will be my first build where i make the neck. Anyone got experience in headless tuning systems? The photo is of one I've been looking at. 

[Hellzero]

ABM parts are great, but sometimes hard to find : https://abm-guitarpartsshop.com/ABM-GUITAR-PARTS/Headless-Systems/Bass:::256_2_28.html

Hipshot is making great parts too : https://hipshotproducts.com/collections/bass-hardware/products/4-string-headless-bass-bridge

[ambient]

I’ve just bought a headless 6 string bass and love it. It’s a Sei, I’m not sure what make the tuning system is, I think Martin Petersen has them built for him.

The concept is brilliant, it literally takes just a few minutes to fit a set of strings. No more holding the string tight so it doesn’t pop off whilst turning the tuner for what seems like ages.

 

[BassBus]

That looks like an interesting tuning system. The only problem I would have with it is the way the tuners stick out from the end of the bass. They would be a bit vulnerable to damage or being knocked out of tune. The headless basses that have the tuning pieces recessed seem a much better option to me, i.e. Steinberger and Status. Any more info on those tuners? Headless has always struck me as just being logical. 

[jebroad]

42 minutes ago, BassBus said:

That looks like an interesting tuning system. The only problem I would have with it is the way the tuners stick out from the end of the bass. They would be a bit vulnerable to damage or being knocked out of tune. The headless basses that have the tuning pieces recessed seem a much better option to me, i.e. Steinberger and Status. Any more info on those tuners? Headless has always struck me as just being logical. 

it is possible for me to add the recess to the design. Thanks for the idea, i never really though about that

Edited February 27, 2018 by jebroad

[jebroad]

Has anyone got experience with the cheap headless systems from china? A much cheaper and easier solution but im not sure on the quality. 

 

[jebroad]

6 hours ago, Hellzero said:

ABM parts are great, but sometimes hard to find : https://abm-guitarpartsshop.com/ABM-GUITAR-PARTS/Headless-Systems/Bass:::256_2_28.html

Hipshot is making great parts too : https://hipshotproducts.com/collections/bass-hardware/products/4-string-headless-bass-bridge

This is a possibility but the price is a little high. I  could afford that in a build but its quite a lot for something i might be able to build myself. 

[jebroad]

1 hour ago, ambient said:

I’ve just bought a headless 6 string bass and love it. It’s a Sei, I’m not sure what make the tuning system is, I think Martin Petersen has them built for him.

The concept is brilliant, it literally takes just a few minutes to fit a set of strings. No more holding the string tight so it doesn’t pop off whilst turning the tuner for what seems like ages.

 

Sounds great, i've wasted hours of life with jazz bass tuners and the string coming out.

[ped]

I like the look of that design. For me, what kills most headless designs is the 'other' end, which often seems 'unfinished'. However, there are a few examples of ideas I really like which still have a sort-of headstock:

 

 

 

[jebroad]

4 minutes ago, ped said:

I like the look of that design. For me, what kills most headless designs is the 'other' end, which often seems 'unfinished'. However, there are a few examples of ideas I really like which still have a sort-of headstock:

 

 

 

My idea for this is to have the strings lock in a block of steel or brass at the head. This is so i can use single balls. . 

[ped]

1 minute ago, jebroad said:

My idea for this is to have the strings lock in a block of steel or brass at the head. This is so i can use single balls. . 

Yes I have one like that and much prefer single balls. I wonder if there's a design where you can have the ball end at the headstock and then clamp the end of the string at the tuner end = best of both worlds...

[jebroad]

3 minutes ago, ped said:

Yes I have one like that and much prefer single balls. I wonder if there's a design where you can have the ball end at the headstock and then clamp the end of the string at the tuner end = best of both worlds...

There is. I've found a cheap one from china on ebay. Heres the link https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Set-of-Headless-Electric-Bass-Bridge-w-Nut-Screws-Wrench-Roll-Ball-Tools/253308055460?hash=item3afa562fa4:g:RxoAAOSwWv5aL6Iw

[ped]

Great!! Looks nice, that. 

[Hellzero]

As Ped has good taste, some views of my Leduc UMM6. 

[jebroad]

2 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

As Ped has good taste, some views of my Leduc UMM6. 

Interesting solution for truss adjustment. I might use that.

[BassBus]

1 hour ago, ped said:

I wonder if there's a design where you can have the ball end at the headstock and then clamp the end of the string at the tuner end = best of both worlds...

The Father of headless basses, Ned Steinberger, designed a tuning system that does just that for the NS Radius bass. I do love those Leduc basses too.

 

[HazBeen]

My Bogarts also have a semi headstock, just thread strings through holes, clamp them and hey presto job’s a good’n.

[Hellzero]

2 minutes ago, BassBus said:

The Father of headless basses, Ned Steinberger, designed a tuning system that does just that for the NS Radius bass. I do love those Leduc basses too.

 

You are another man of good taste. 

I own 4 Leduc 6 strings basses (2 fretlesses, 1 U-Basse fretted and 1 EUB) at the moment, but I've owned over 20...

And I also do love the Ned Steinberger work.

[TheGreek]

Check the work that Andy did on my Psilos bass using the end of the cheap headless system.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ammoon-4-string-Headless-Electric-Bass-Guitar-String-Locking-Nut-Set-with-2-2/173132727050?epid=25014141429&hash=item284f83c30a:g:DaAAAOSwshhaclia

See page 18 : https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/302963-finished-a-bridge-too-far/?page=18

You can use this with single end strings. During the build I did some research and started a thread "Headless Bass parts" which might help. Andy added some comments and also how he modified the part above. Using what he did you can make any shape headstock.

https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/303036-headless-bass-parts/

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by TheGreek

[TheGreek]

In reality you might only need these parts:

http://headless171.rssing.com/browser.php?indx=56698534&item=17

You might also want to checkout the "Wingnut" build to see what can be done with the Chinese system.

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by TheGreek

[Owen]

Great. Now I have NS Radius GAS.

[Mottlefeeder]

 

3 hours ago, TheGreek said:

Check the work that Andy did on my Psilos bass using the end of the cheap headless system.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ammoon-4-string-Headless-Electric-Bass-Guitar-String-Locking-Nut-Set-with-2-2/173132727050?epid=25014141429&hash=item284f83c30a:g:DaAAAOSwshhaclia

 

The 'Overlord of Music' bridge and the pictured string locking set are commonly supplied with kit headless basses, and I have one. The problem with the string locking nut set is that the two visible allen screws clamp the string behind the zero fret, but the string is locked by bending it through 90 degrees and then clamping it, and thicker strings break when you do that.

To use flat-wound strings, I ended up sawing off the existing clamp (at the bottom of the image) and fitting a separate clamping block so the strings pass straight through. If the remains of the original string locking nut set is angled in the right direction, the new block will not ride up when the strings are tensioned.

David

[Bassassin]

The Chinese system pictured above is a copy of the unit used on the 80s & 90s Hohner B2 & Jack basses - which was a licensed Steinberger design. I have 2 basses with the Steingberger licensed units (which are excellent) but no experience of the copy system. If I was planning a headless build, I'd definitely be considering the Chinese system ahead of the more expensive alternatives.

[Chopthebass]

I use ABM on mine (check my avatar). Their stuff is very expensive though.

ETS makes the best quality hardware in my opinion, and their headless system has a nice headpiece with a pre drilled hole for truss rod adjustment. I had to drill my ABM ones to do the same thing. That was a scary moment!

[Hellzero]

Yes, it's certainly one of the best, but ETS runs out of stock almost all year long. Bassparts who was their official distributor/retailer in Germany doesn't want to work with them anymore because ETS can't respect their delivery time...