Commission Sales - 15%

[TheGreek]

We do have a number of vendors here so I'm hoping that they're happy to share how they justify the 15% charge on any commission sales.

I haven't sold too many things on commission - had 2x out for sale, only 1x was successful - it seems that some vendors merely display the instruments in their store and add them to their website. Not sure whether they have a database of buyers/collectors, whether they contact studios or supply to touring bands.

I know somebody who holds gear for touring bands who occasionally, on advisement from the Record companies, has a clear out. Buyers are able to pick up some really well maintained, good quality bargains when this happens. 

When you're selling a high end instrument with a sale price over £2k (that's £300 commission) I'd like to think that shops are being more proactive than just leaving a bass on the shop floor.

What would you expect from somebody who you're paying £300 to sell something for you??

[CameronJ]

9 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

What would you expect from somebody who you're paying £300 to sell something for you??

 

I’d hope for at least this:

9 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

Not sure whether they have a database of buyers/collectors, whether they contact studios or supply to touring bands.

 

However in most cases I suspect that the reality is this:

10 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

...just leaving a bass on the shop floor.

 

[wateroftyne]

13 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

We do have a number of vendors here so I'm hoping that they're happy to share how they justify the 15% charge on any commission sales.

I haven't sold too many things on commission - had 2x out for sale, only 1x was successful - it seems that some vendors merely display the instruments in their store and add them to their website. Not sure whether they have a database of buyers/collectors, whether they contact studios or supply to touring bands.

I know somebody who holds gear for touring bands who occasionally, on advisement from the Record companies, has a clear out. Buyers are able to pick up some really well maintained, good quality bargains when this happens. 

When you're selling a high end instrument with a sale price over £2k (that's £300 commission) I'd like to think that shops are being more proactive than just leaving a bass on the shop floor.

What would you expect from somebody who you're paying £300 to sell something for you??

I wouldn't bother, unless it's someone like Andy Baxter.

[chris_b]

23 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

. . . . What would you expect from somebody who you're paying £300 to sell something for you??.

I'd expect them to sell  the instrument.

They set their rate and I agree to it or not and set the price accordingly. The rate itself is irrelevant.

The commission, in many cases, includes VAT.

[Dad3353]

18 minutes ago, chris_b said:

...The commission, in many cases, includes VAT.

VAT, if applicable, would be calculated on the commission, not on the full sales price.

[SpondonBassed]

56 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

...What would you expect from somebody who you're paying £300 to sell something for you??

For some that would be the gross pay for a week's work!  I'm not talking about a desk job either.

Christmas Gifts Under £300

[Old Man Riva]

2 hours ago, TheGreek said:

When you're selling a high end instrument with a sale price over £2k (that's £300 commission) I'd like to think that shops are being more proactive than just leaving a bass on the shop floor.

What would you expect from somebody who you're paying £300 to sell something for you??

Depending on the shop I'd suggest that you/we would be piggy-backing their expertise and reputation.

Andy Baxter, for instance, has spent years of hard work building up his business and reputation. He sells worldwide and if he has a bass of yours you would be confident that buyers all over the globe would have access to that instrument via his website (pics, sound-clips, description etc.), and would be willing to part with their cash for a bass they hadn't seen in the flesh or played - again, he's in a position to do this due to the amount of hours, money and effort he's put into building his business and reputation.

 Similarly with the Gallery. The have spent years working hard to build a business and solid reputation. The same as Andy they also display instruments on global websites like Reverb or G-base, and can do so with the confidence that people around the world would see them as a credible seller/business and would buy in confidence.

For those reasons above alone I've had both Andy and the guys at the Gallery sell basses for me and have been delighted with the outcome. I certainly wouldn't expect to be able to piggy-back another company's years of hard work and reputation-building and it not come with a fee.

I know others that wouldn't pay a penny to a third-party and would rather do it themselves, which is absolutely fine - there is no right or wrong way. 

The one thing I would suggest is that, as with any business transaction, one would have a conversation at the front end and get all the clarity one requires in terms of what they will be doing to sell the bass etc. Ask questions, get clarity and leave nothing to assumption/expectation.

Personally speaking, I feel that if I were to leave it to assumptions or I chose to manage my own expectations (rather than asking questions beforehand) then I would only have myself to blame if I weren't clear on how they were looking to sell my bass. 

 

[Mykesbass]

I've happily sold through Wunjo - a high (ish) end Yamaha SG guitar, and was very happy to pay their commission, as their footfall and clientèle was better than anything I could attract elsewhere. Also, a shop like Wunjo will usually get a higher price, offsetting some, if not all of the charge.

Out of interest @TheGreek, what would you feel was a fair rate?

[Old Man Riva]

3 minutes ago, Mykesbass said:

Also, a shop like Wunjo will usually get a higher price, offsetting some, if not all of the charge.

Agree. Forgot to mention Wunjo.

Again, the amount of hard work and effort that Tom H and his team have put in over the years to build the business/reputation should be taken into account if one is considering them to market/sell an instrument on their behalf on a commission basis.

[uk_lefty]

If it's a common bass like a fender p I'd think you can't go wrong selling privately through this site, gumtree or eBay (who charge commission too). But if o was selling something a bit more niche I'd maybe go to a reputable dealer because the real buyers for the more expensive and more niche stuff will probably look to them first. Not all bassists use this site, inexplicably.

[gs_triumph]

I don't see a problem with 15% commission. 

They are also looking after the instrument whilst in their care, insuring it, advertising it and hopefully using their expertise to find prospective buyers that wouldn't necessarily buy from a Joe blogs on gumtree. 

Everyone has the option to sell elsewhere if they prefer. 

[Misdee]

I think 15% is entirely reasonable commission for a shop to charge. As the saying goes, a fair exchange is no robbery. Both parties are getting something out of the deal that is worthwhile. The shop doesn't have to tie up capital in stock, and the punter gets a marketplace in which to present his bass to the buying public. You can't necessarily blame the shop if the goods don't sell. There can be a number of reasons for that;  most usually because the item is overpriced and/or no one wants it at any price.

[Misdee]

Just out of interest, does anybody know which shops charge which rate of commission for selling bass gear? I would expect there are some that charge more than 15%. I would be very surprised if anywhere charges less, but I'd be interested to know. 

[TheGreek]

I don't have a problem with the commission rate of 15% per se, but I'd expect the shop to do some work to sell a bass for me, rather than it just being displayed in the shop and on it's website.

It seems that some shops do little more than this and feel they are doing enough.

[Old Man Riva]

22 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

I don't have a problem with the commission rate of 15% per se, but I'd expect the shop to do some work to sell a bass for me, rather than it just being displayed in the shop and on it's website.

It seems that some shops do little more than this and feel they are doing enough.

Re: "Just being displayed in the shop and on it's website". In fairness, some folk have entered into agreements based on just that and have had positive experiences where gear has been sold and commission happily paid...

From your perspective who would be an example of a trader/store you would work with and what would you expect them to be doing (i.e. "doing some work") in terms of marketing/selling your instrument?

Gear being held for a touring band and then sold on is an interesting one that I wasn't aware of so it'd be good to know where to look for that in the future.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Old Man Riva
Edited due to c@*p spelling..!

[TheGreek]

Nick Smith, Doctor of the Bass, sold a Rumble 100w combo for me. Not only did he have it on display in his shops where his students could see and try it, but was ringing round his "database" of Bass players that he knew to find a buyer for me.

Sold it in a couple of weeks.

[Old Man Riva]

The database seems a good approach.

Andy Baxter operates in a similar way - i.e he gets contacted by players asking to be notified if a specific instrument turns up and keeps a record of these. Once one comes up (or he sources one) he can easily get the ball rolling.

Good for the buyer and good for the seller...

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

VAT, if applicable, would be calculated on the commission, not on the full sales price.

I don’t believe VAT is payable on second hand goods. 

[Dad3353]

2 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

I don’t believe VAT is payable on second hand goods. 

Vat is not payable on private sales of second-hand goods, but is due for any commission charged by a commerce for such sales.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Vat is not payable on private sales of second-hand goods, but is due for any commission charged by a commerce for such sales.

OK. I assume most retailers will use a margin scheme so it’s only 16.67% of the commission rather than the 20% on the full purchase price of new sales - or £50 on the aforementioned £300 commission for a £2000 bass. Take outshop rent, rates, bills, insurance and staffing, plus interest on any business loans and the remainder won’t lead to bass shop owners retiring to a million-pound house in Barbados  

Edited March 3, 2018 by FDC484950

[GuyR]

I have sold a relatively low value bass on commission and bought two high value (to me!) basses through the same shop on commission. The bass I sold was around £300. I was paying 15% and the service I received was excellent. I suggested reducing the price after a month or so but the shop disagreed and told me to hang on and I would get the full price, which I did a few weeks later. The very easy option for them would have been just to agree, cut the price and make an easy sale, but they didn't. 

That judgement and expertise in the market is what you are paying for, along with the value-added in the confidence of the buyer in purchasing through a reputable and established trading entity, rather than of some random bloke on a forum or auction/classifieds site and all the uncertainty/risk that entails. I don't concern myself with what their process was to achieve the result. On the occasions I bought on commission basses, the first (custom colour 62 jazz) I was phoned to say they had something interesting in stock and they kept the shop open an hour late to let me try it. The second (ex-pino 79 fretless stingray) I was in to buy strings, it was pointed out to me, and I went home with it. In all cases an exemplary service was provided to buyer and seller. Same thing with auctions, buyer & seller know the terms before they trade. The company is a market-maker, attracting a buying public wanting to buy and with the means and confidence to buy. That, along with convenience, is what you are paying for. 

[Dan Dare]

Sellers don't need to "justify" their rates. If you don't like the percentage they charge, don't sell through them. It's a free country and they are in business to make a living, surprisingly enough... The advantage, when you sell an instrument through someone with a retail outlet, mailing list or whatever, is that they can put your instrument in front of many more people than you can. "Leaving it on the shop floor" is often beneficial, provided it's a desirable instrument, because so many will see it, so I don't know why some are disparaging that. How many people are going to come to your home and look at it through the window?

[Urban Bassman]

I've put my Suhr J Bass with the Gallery to sell for me and I'm very happy to accept their commission. They get the right sort of customers for this bass through their door and browsing their web site etc, plus they will ship...meaning I don't have to.  I could have put it on eBay and suffer the charges from both eBay and potentially PayPal and in all likelyhood have to ship it too (not to mention all the tyre kickers with stupid low ball offers and so on) So all in all I beleive that for a high value bass, like mine,  a commission sale at places like the Gallery do represent fair value.

[Grangur]

19 hours ago, TheGreek said:

I don't have a problem with the commission rate of 15% per se, but I'd expect the shop to do some work to sell a bass for me, rather than it just being displayed in the shop and on it's website.

It seems that some shops do little more than this and feel they are doing enough.

EBay, by comparison would charge 10%

They won't be standing about in the shop, supervising people "testing" out your bass. They won't hang around after hours waiting for another punter to try it on the way home from work.

EBay don't get sellers calling 3-4 times a week for a report on who tried it and why they didn't buy.

EBay won't offer your buyer a 6month after sales warranty.

And for the added 5% you won't have your buyer calling PayPal to say it never arrived/not as advertised... can I have a refund please?

[leftybassman392]

If you sell a bass in this way then presumably you have:

1. Decided that it's a desirable thing to do (presumably because you feel it improves your chances of selling your bass in some way);

2. Decided to take advantage of the reputation and/or facilities your chosen agency offers;

3. Decided to accept their terms and conditions of sale; and,

4. Decided that the net price you will get from the sale is at least as much as you would get from selling it yourself (and without the inconvenience of having to advertise it, field dumb queries from the great unwashed or arrange delivery/courier/collection yourself).

If you're unhappy with any of the above, then without wishing to be rude why are you  doing it this way in the first place? Why not just sell it yourself and be done with it?