Commission Sales - 15%

[stingrayPete1977]

2 hours ago, leftybassman392 said:

If you sell a bass in this way then presumably you have:

1. Decided that it's a desirable thing to do (presumably because you feel it improves your chances of selling your bass in some way);

2. Decided to take advantage of the reputation and/or facilities your chosen agency offers;

3. Decided to accept their terms and conditions of sale; and,

4. Decided that the net price you will get from the sale is at least as much as you would get from selling it yourself (and without the inconvenience of having to advertise it, field dumb queries from the great unwashed or arrange delivery/courier/collection yourself).

If you're unhappy with any of the above, then without wishing to be rude why are you  doing it this way in the first place? Why not just sell it yourself and be done with it?

Top and bottom of it. 

[Grangur]

Isn't this a case of "you do what you need to do, to sell the bass you have" ?

If your bass is a predictable mass-market jelly-mold re-production of what so many other basses are, then you won't go for a commission sale. Besides, if the buyer decides their purchase  isn't for them, they can move it on easy enough.

If your bass a bit more niche, it may be inevitable that folk will want to try it, before shelling out large sums to buy. So as a seller, you may not have much choice other than to be very flexible and available to provide facilities for buyers to come and try a bass, or pay a pro-seller to do this for you.

At all levels of the market there are folk who try to avoid sellers fees. Some even break rules to try to avoid even the modest BC seller fees. But generally I would guess folk like @thegallery and similar, will do more to actually earn commission seller fees, than Ebay. 

If what you have for sale is something you think is special, by a relatively unknown luthier, then you really don't have much choice than to do it on a commission sale, or accept a rather modest sale price when selling on Ebay or Gumtree.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Grangur

[thebassgallery]

Hi all, 

Charlie here! I think it's fair enough that you all should know what we do for the 15% commission we take... So here you have it! 

- We have all items on display in our central London shop for customers to try, this takes away the stress of having to arrange viewings etc

- We list each item on our website, on Reverb (which also sends a feed to Google Shopping) and we also post on our social media pages which has a combined following of almost 15,000 people

- We take professional, hi-res photos of each item (and that's no quick job I can tell you...)

- Each item is fully insured

- Each item is offered with a full complimentary setup 

- Each pre-owned item has a 3 month limited warrantee 

- We offer free UK shipping over £100 which costs us over £20 to do for each item

- If we know of a potential customer for your item we will get in contact with them

- We have been in this business for over 25 years!

 

Let me know if you have any more questions, hopefully I can help! 

[Al Krow]

On 03/03/2018 at 15:21, Mykesbass said:

I've happily sold through Wunjo - a high (ish) end Yamaha SG guitar, and was very happy to pay their commission, as their footfall and clientèle was better than anything I could attract elsewhere. Also, a shop like Wunjo will usually get a higher price, offsetting some, if not all of the charge.

You're right! Me and @bartelby managed to sell his Ibby to Wunjos for 33% more than he was going to get from a BCer for them to onsell - that's 'cos they reckoned they could make a profit on top and we and they were both happy with the transaction. 

Tom is the manager there - a really nice guy.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Al Krow

[Elfrasho]

If it sells through that method, who cares what they did to do it? If you agree a percentage at the start, then not sure what the problem would be. 

 

If it sells, but turns out it's been left in the case through the back then I would care not a jot! 

[Dad3353]

It's one of the strange ways that businesses work, to me. I'm not carping about any one shop, site or enterprise; I frequent none of them anyway, and am a drummer, so... However, the work involved in selling a bass would be substantially the same, I'd have thought, almost whatever its price point. Why not have a fixed commission cost..? Enough to cover all the work, attention and overheads; one commission cost whatever the bass's price..? Why wouldn't that work..? I don't see what extra value has been added to selling a, say, £1000 bass over a , say, £2000 bass. I've no qualms with having the sales outlet have a decent amount for their services, but what's the justification  for percentage, rather than a fixed sum..? Is there one..? 

[GuyR]

Good question. Because the shop is adding value at an equal proportion whatever the price of the bass. If, through their reputation, database and expertise, the shop gets, for instance, 20% higher than the private sale price, they deserve a proportionate cut of the value added.

Also, for the shop not to lose revenue, a fixed cost per transaction - worked out as an average of the commission on each sale- would need to be at a level that sellers of cheaper basses would be disinclined to tolerate, so the shop would, in effect alienate a significant proportion of its customer base, reducing footfall and related sales.

As it stands, the sellers of high-end basses are subsidising those less well-heeled, rendering the Gallery a perfect model for a socialist utopia.

That's why.

[stingrayPete1977]

59 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

It's one of the strange ways that businesses work, to me. I'm not carping about any one shop, site or enterprise; I frequent none of them anyway, and am a drummer, so... However, the work involved in selling a bass would be substantially the same, I'd have thought, almost whatever its price point. Why not have a fixed commission cost..? Enough to cover all the work, attention and overheads; one commission cost whatever the bass's price..? Why wouldn't that work..? I don't see what extra value has been added to selling a, say, £1000 bass over a , say, £2000 bass. I've no qualms with having the sales outlet have a decent amount for their services, but what's the justification  for percentage, rather than a fixed sum..? Is there one..? 

You can't have it both ways, ok let's have a fixed £200 fee, that's not going to work on a £500 ticket price bass is it? 

[gs_triumph]

They deserve a higher fee for a more expensive product. 

Generally, and I'm not saying in all cases, they will probably sell multiple cheaper units at say £500 to every £3k bass they sell.  Potential buyers who are in a position to buy a £3k are harder to find than those with the funds to buy a £1k bass. 

They all take up the same space in the shop. 

[bartelby]

5 hours ago, Al Krow said:

You're right! Me and @bartelby managed to sell his Ibby to Wunjos for 33% more than he was going to get from a BCer for them to onsell - that's 'cos they reckoned they could make a profit on top and we and they were both happy with the transaction. 

Tom is the manager there - a really nice guy.

I reckon I could have got a little bit more out of them. But I got back what I paid for it, so was happy.

[Baxlin]

Before I retired, I part owned a service industry company which charged fees (although not necessarily on a % basis) and realised that quite a few people know their cost, but unfortunately not always their value.

Having said that, I understand that traditional auction houses (not the likes of eBay) also charge around 15% commission, but to both vendor and purchaser, so they get it twice......

Edited March 6, 2018 by Baxlin

[SpondonBassed]

Doesn't it all come down to how badly you need to sell your bass or indeed any object of desire?

If you're desperate to pay the mortgage you might have the luxury of a month until the payment is due.  If you are short on the household budget for the week you will want money a bit sooner than that and you would take a loss on the sale to make the deal.

@TheGreek, I'd guess you aren't in either of those situations Mick.  I won't suggest the pawn shop then.

[stingrayPete1977]

6 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

Doesn't it all come down to how badly you need to sell your bass or indeed any object of desire?

If you're desperate to pay the mortgage you might have the luxury of a month until the payment is due.  If you are short on the household budget for the week you will want money a bit sooner than that and you would take a loss on the sale to make the deal.

@TheGreek, I'd guess you aren't in either of those situations Mick.  I won't suggest the pawn shop then.

Generally I think items offered for commission sale fall into two camps, the first are very desirable and expensive that will sell quickly but the buyers are more likely to buy from a shop with some form of guarantee and possibly pay with a credit card, those items will make money for the shop and raise the seller the same amount as they would get privately even taking the fees into account, the other type are valuable but unusual and probably not on anyone's radar, hanging in a shop is the best place to achieve a decent sale price for those. 

[darkandrew]

I was just wondering what the margin would be on a new bass or guitar? Ie. Would the shop make more out of a commission sale or selling their own stock?

[Grangur]

6 minutes ago, darkandrew said:

I was just wondering what the margin would be on a new bass or guitar? Ie. Would the shop make more out of a commission sale or selling their own stock?

Surely this has to be weighed against speed of the sale?

Selling a Yamaha or a Fender USA Standard P or J won't net much margin, but a shop that's known for carrying these will sell them fairly quickly.

A commission sale might net a good sum in commission, but the shop risks carrying the stock for a few weeks.

[thepurpleblob]

Of course, a shop floor (and the bit of it your bass is sitting in) costs the trader real money. I used to get this all the time when I ran a specialist shop (not music but similar) - "I wish I was on your hourly rate" and such. Well, that's fine, here's my telephone bill, rates bill, insurance bill, wages bill etc. 

[Chiliwailer]

12 hours ago, darkandrew said:

I was just wondering what the margin would be on a new bass or guitar? Ie. Would the shop make more out of a commission sale or selling their own stock?

I worked in guitar retail from 1993 - 2009, back then the potential mark up for new gear was:

55% if you sold it at full price.

30-35% was about average after discount

20% was your typical bottom line in order to "make it worth opening the shop". 

So one reason for the 15%-20% commission is that if someone wants to buy a new Fender P and you can make 30%, you'd be silly to sell the second hand one at just 10%. That's just one example, I'm aware there are other factors such as bird in the hand etc.

[GuyR]

1 hour ago, thepurpleblob said:

Of course, a shop floor (and the bit of it your bass is sitting in) costs the trader real money. I used to get this all the time when I ran a specialist shop (not music but similar) - "I wish I was on your hourly rate" and such. Well, that's fine, here's my telephone bill, rates bill, insurance bill, wages bill etc. 

Same story in all retail/high street. Some customers understand the value added by having a physical store, choice, service, convenience, advice, back-up etc. Some customers think a shop is a free showroom for Amazon.

A friend of mine has recently closed his bike shop, open for three generations. Couldn't make it pay. One customer typified it for him. Came in, asked about locks, had the full range demonstrated to him. Said he would think about one that was £20. Came back into the shop a few days later with the same lock and asked my friend to fit it. Cost him £15 on Amazon.  My friend said "no problem" that will be £5. Punter says"you must be joking. You've just lost a customer" the irony was wasted on him. Use it or lose it.

[stingrayPete1977]

There are a lot of shops that should have foreseen how internet sales would destroy their business, purely retailing someone else's goods is no longer profitable.