Alternative Tunings

[NickA]

I was listening to Michael Manring's "The Enormous Room" the other day (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY4Ra2KOyas )... which has the most amazing harmonics and chords every played on a bass ... and started messing with different tunings; eg tuning down the G string to F# yields some lovely major 7th type chords using harmonics.  Then wondered if I could play the bass tuned like a 'cello ( C G D A) - after all, tuning in 4ths is really only because double basses are tuned in 4ths, and that is because a) they are descended from viols and b) they are too HUGE to finger when played in 5ths.  An electric bass is a lot shorter scale, so why not tune in 5ths (bigger range, access to a low C).

'Cello tuning  is only a partial success because the E has to go down to a C (floppy) and the G up to an A (tight) which is also probably not too good for the neck; maybe replacing the E with a B from a 5-string set and tuning it up would work.  Also, standard 'cello technique involves a lot of extensions (eg playing a whole tone between first and second fingers so as to reach G# witha 4th finger on the D string etc) which is a bit too much of a stretch on a normal scale electric bass.  Interesting (although, strangely, despite that I can play the 'cello in 'cello tuning, playing the e bass in 'cello tuning is confusing; as soon as I pick up an electric bass, my brain goes into 4ths!). 

Anwyay, what other tunings have people tried?  Any good ones out there?

 

[fretmeister]

I had a Hyperbass for a few years. I forget the tuning but I did a passable version of Monkey Businesses Man, and Adhan by the time I sold it.

 

was great fun.

[thodrik]

I have tried too many alternative tunings to count - from up to F standard with very light strings and down to A standard with very heavy strings. Most of the variations are based from choosing the 'standard' tuning and then altering the pitch of the bottom string to get the 'drop D' or 'drop B' or very rarely the 'drop A' equivalent

Never tried Cello tunings on a bass guitar though. I am pretty sure I would get very confused very quickly!I tried that DADGAD tuning on a guitar once and absolutely hated it.

[EssentialTension]

20 hours ago, NickA said:

... Then wondered if I could play the bass tuned like a 'cello ( C G D A) - after all, tuning in 4ths is really only because double basses are tuned in 4ths, and that is because a) they are descended from viols and b) they are too HUGE to finger when played in 5ths ...

 

Red Mitchell tuned his double bass like a cello; it can be done.

And I think the French electric bassist Jannick Top plays, or has played, cello tuning.

Edited March 5, 2018 by EssentialTension

[NickA]

Red Mitchell played the 'cello too I see.  Must have had a small bass, huge hands or only played in 4th position or above!  There's a big difference between the 34" of an electric and the 40+" of a double bass.

 

[EssentialTension]

8 hours ago, NickA said:

Red Mitchell played the 'cello too I see.  Must have had a small bass, huge hands or only played in 4th position or above!  There's a big difference between the 34" of an electric and the 40+" of a double bass.

 

 

[EssentialTension]

Tuning in Fifths

A third tuning, which has been in existence since the origins of the upright bass, is tuning in 5ths, one octave below the sound of a cello, C G D A:

Some notable players who advocate this tuning are: Joel Quarrington (soloist and principal bass of the Toronto Symphony) and the late jazz great Red Mitchell. Supporters of this tuning dismiss concerns of increased left hand workload and cite the increased resonance of the instrument as a relevant factor, among other things.

Not all string manufacturers produce a set of strings for 5ths tuning, but some do. Those who produce them denote them as either “Red Mitchell” or simply “fifths tuning.” If you don’t like the brands, or production lines, of strings available as a fifths tuning set, you can create your own out of other orchestral and solo tuning stings:

1. Take a low B string (originally designed to be lowest string on a 5 string bass) and tune it up 1/2 step higher to C
2. Take an F# solo string and tune it up 1/2 step higher to G
3. Use an orchestral tuning D string and a solo tuning A string to complete the set.
4. You are now in fifths tuning!

Source

[EssentialTension]

 

[EssentialTension]

 

Articles on playing bass in fifths

[NickA]

Bach 6 on a double bass is a MAJOR feat ... it's near impossible on a 4 string cello for mere mortals; the allemande is about the hardest piece I've ever played on a cello in public (I can only hack my way though the rest, and never start to end without grinding to a halt) .. it was written for a short scale 5-string cello with a high C !!

Thanks for the Joel quarrington link; I have a long train ride today and now have lots of reading ;¬)

Edited March 16, 2018 by NickA
error 4 not 5 string cellos

[ead]

I think it depends on what you're playing.  The first instrument I learned was a violin (tuned in 5ths), so playing the bass was initially a bit odd.  However intervals like a minor 3rd on the same string can be a bit of a stretch down at the money end on a bass tuned in 5ths so I can see what many bassist stick with the standard tuning given their role in a band context.  An octave played across two strings suddenly becomes a bit weird too!

Solo bassist have more freedom in this respect clearly.  Also bear in mind the Cello scale length is around 27-28" (from memory) so a bit easier to stretch.

[EliasMooseblaster]

On 3/5/2018 at 17:44, thodrik said:

I tried that DADGAD tuning on a guitar once and absolutely hated it.

I think DADGAD is one of those tunings that lends itself to slide and other open-chord styles. If you've got used to playing in Open D or Open G it makes a refreshing change; if you're coming in cold from standard, it's a real sod to re-think!

[EssentialTension]

10 hours ago, NickA said:

Bach 6 on a double bass is a MAJOR feat ... it's near impossible on a 4 string cello for mere mortals; the allemande is about the hardest piece I've ever played on a cello in public (I can only hack my way though the rest, and never start to end without grinding to a halt) .. it was written for a short scale 5-string cello with a high C !!

Thanks for the Joel quarrington link; I have a long train ride today and now have lots of reading ;¬)

I'm just a four string EADG bass guitarist so I am definitely a mere mortal but Bach is beautiful to listen to and I have always loved Red Mitchell.

Enjoy the reading.

[paul_c2]

I regularly play - and sight read - in EADG (about 80% of the time) and DADG (about 20% of the time). I can see the advantage in tuning in 5ths but pragmatically I think you'd need to tweak the string gauges used a little, ie replace some strings, than try to 'stretch' a regular set to achieve that tuning. I used to use 40-100 but switched, firstly to just replacing the lowest with 105, then to regular 45-105, just so the lowest string doesn't go too floppy.

Regarding actually playing, the gap between D-A (ie a 5th) on the lowest pair when in DADG is a bit of a pain in the derrière when you have a piece with lots of (for example) Eb and Ab since you need to switch positions much more frequently, so I don't think for "normal" bass stuff being in 5ths is going to make things any easier, in fact it could be harder still. And I don't get involved with cello pieces.

I've considered other tunings too, for example Db Ab Db Gb to achieve the low Db/C# if needed, but its bad enough reading and remembering 2 tunings! I think for anything with more than a very occasional note below D, a 5 string bass would be much more sensible; but for music which goes as low as D, then DADG is a very viable alternative to having to use a 5 string, especially if you don't already own one etc.

Edited March 16, 2018 by paul_c2

[Delberthot]

If you like D'addarios then have a look at their tension guide as it lets you know what string is what tension at different tunings then pick the single strings to make up your own set. I did this and bought the strings from strings direct