Motown bass sounds

[project_c]

3 hours ago, dannybuoy said:

I've been through quite a few pedals and software plugins trying to find a tone I like for that Motown feel, and the Aguilar Tonehammer is my favourite - I've just knocked up a quick clip!

('05 USA Precision with very old TI flats, tone about 70%, into Tonehammer DI with AGS on, gain at 9 o'clock, slight bass and low mid boost and treble cut)

https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApKsVfvGwYkOiqV6Q61pUu3yvWelVg

The One Control Sonic Silver Peg, Catalinbread SFT and VT Bass are also good for this sound, where it's on the edge of cleanliness and a harder pluck makes a rubbery sound with no harsh fizz up top. I didn't get as much joy out of the Creation Audio Grizzly or SolidgoldFX Beta, both of which are often recommended for this kind of tone but didn't quite work out for me.

I'd love to try some recordings through a REDDI though! Or one of these:

http://acmeaudio.net/product/motown-di/

I have the Motown DI, it's great and I use it daily, I'm permanently plugged into it in fact but it doesn't do what you think it's going to do. It's not a magic Motown switch. You're welcome to try it if you're ever down this way (Shortlands). With a P, flats, a bit of tape saturation (which is where the Tone Hammer may be useful) and a one finger technique it does get you closer to that sound, but the DI is just a small step towards it, and you could easily get a respectable Motown tone without it. Honestly, any P with the tone rolled off a bit and plugged in direct will get you there, and I've gotten closer to it by watching Jamersons hand position and technique than by trying to find the right pedal or effect.

[bazzbass]

you won't get the timing and feel playing with two fingers.

 

It's all about raking one finger upwards imho

[chris_b]

Bob Babbitt said JJ played the strings with the lightest touch. That will make a big difference.

[oldbass]

Checkout 2.31....amazingly economic finger action...

[plangentmusic]

Jamerson's sound isn't really an overdriven sound, it' sounds more like it's red-lighting the panel!   His bass also sounds a little out of tune. Still...it kills. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by plangentmusic

[silverfoxnik]

3 hours ago, oldbass said:

Checkout 2.31....amazingly economic finger action...

Brilliant ! Great floating thumb technique too ... ☺

[plangentmusic]

If I may -- my attempt at getting the Jamerson sound -- though a bit more modern and more "up front."

 

 It's a P bass (A 1987- 62" reissue to be exact) with very dead strings and some tissue paper squished between the back cover and the strings.  

 

I always loved this part and felt it was criminally under mixed.  I fixed that.  lol 

 

 

[chris_b]

58 minutes ago, silverfoxnik said:

Brilliant ! Great floating thumb technique too ... ☺

Not quite floating thumb. I believe he anchored his ring finger on the pickup cover.

[pfretrock]

29 minutes ago, plangentmusic said:

I always loved this part and felt it was criminally under mixed.  I fixed that.  lol

I heard that was done to stop the pickup arm jumping out of the vinyl groove. Can't think why, pickup arm tracking weights must have been measured in kilograms back when!

[plangentmusic]

3 minutes ago, pfretrock said:

I heard that was done to stop the pickup arm jumping out of the vinyl groove. Can't think why, pickup arm tracking weights must have been measured in kilograms back when!

It's funny, on Reach out, Benadette, Glady's Knights Grapevine,  the bass is WAY up front. And then on some tracks like Dancing in the Streets, it's invisible. I think it was random mixing choices depending on other factors.  But yeah, they didn't have the control (compressors, limiters) that are now available. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by plangentmusic

[chris_b]

12 minutes ago, plangentmusic said:

It's funny, on Reach out, Benadette, Glady's Knights Grapevine,  the bass is WAY up front. And then on some tracks like Dancing in the Streets, it's invisible. I think it was random mixing choices depending on other factors.  But yeah, they didn't have the control (compressors, limiters) that are now available. 

All the early stuff had the bass sharing a track with other instruments so it was mixed back and in many of the tracks where JJ was almost "invisible" he was using his double bass. No one ever recorded double bass in pop music properly back then.They started mixing him further forward when he morphed into the amazing "lead" bass player that still gets him so noticed today.

[silverfoxnik]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

Not quite floating thumb. I believe he anchored his ring finger on the pickup cover.

Doesn't look like that to me in the clip, Chris...

But whichever way he did it, his rhythmic & melodic sensibility was undeniable.

Edited March 8, 2018 by silverfoxnik

[Grangur]

3 hours ago, silverfoxnik said:

Brilliant ! Great floating thumb technique too ... ☺

 

2 hours ago, chris_b said:

Not quite floating thumb. I believe he anchored his ring finger on the pickup cover.

Watching the video, it looks to me like the anchor is the pickup cover. He rakes his index finger and uses the thumb to deaden the strings, to get the classic JJ dead-note tones.

... but I could also be wrong.

[oldbass]

Im pretty sure thats the only piece of footage of him anywhere....its just incredible to be able to watch him play..kinda cuts through all the endless reams of JJ internet chitter chatter. Its very humbling.

[KK Jale]

10 minutes ago, oldbass said:

Im pretty sure thats the only piece of footage of him anywhere....i

There's also this, though it's mimed for the camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh_Qg4CbM8Q

And this

 

The Save The Children concert footage is truly amazing though... gave me the chills when I first saw it. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by KK Jale

[scalpy]

13 hours ago, bazzbass said:

you won't get the timing and feel playing with two fingers.

 

It's all about raking one finger upwards imho

I always thought you could get away with it, then I watched Scott Devine explain it as the difference between when a drummer does a 16 beat alternating sticks and when they 16 beat one handed. That kind of defeated any of my arguments and now I try and get through Darling Dear one fingered, bitterly!

[oldbass]

39 minutes ago, KK Jale said:

There's also this, though it's mimed for the camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh_Qg4CbM8Q

And this

 

The Save The Children concert footage is truly amazing though... gave me the chills when I first saw it. 

Amazing but kinda sad in a way cause he probably wasnt a very happy guy at that point yet he looks so cool and on the money..pity.

[EssentialTension]

 

 

 

[bazzbass]

mesmerising 

 

what a voice Smokey !

[bazzbass]

16 hours ago, oldbass said:

Checkout 2.31....amazingly economic finger action...

probably the best footage showing JJ's style. Very light touch, one finger. SO much goodness. Genius

[Bluewine]

I haven't read all the comments.

Wow, technology has come so far. That pre-amp looks like an auxiliary power booster from a 1950s space movie.

You know, I've listened to some isolated Motown bass tracks from back in the day. The playing was awesome but sound ( not tone) was questionable.

Blue

[SpondonBassed]

6 hours ago, Bluewine said:

I haven't read all the comments.

Wow, technology has come so far. That pre-amp looks like an auxiliary power booster from a 1950s space movie.

You know, I've listened to some isolated Motown bass tracks from back in the day. The playing was awesome but sound ( not tone) was questionable.

Blue

Some of the recordings that have survived are surprisingly good.

There are many examples however where bass has not been as well represented as the rest of the band.  If we could hear every bass line from every recording ever made reproduced faithfully, it'd really be summat for us lot.  There would be revelations.

It would mean zip to non bass players however.  As long as they have a kick drum to dance to that's all they need.

At the moment I have a five CD set of Northern Soul dancehall hits.  These are the US records that weren't successful according to the hitmaker machinery.  Ten years after they were stored in warehouse 'bins' enthusiasts were buying them to redeploy on the British Northern Soul circuit.  I'm working through the hundred plus tracks to fill a hole in my knowledge of dance music in Britain.

I wish the bass parts were a bit better defined sometime as the articulation is not always reproduced faithfully.  They're not too bad on this collection all the same.

[drTStingray]

On 8 March 2018 at 18:26, KK Jale said:

 

The Save The Children concert footage is truly amazing though... gave me the chills when I first saw it. 

Thanks for posting this it's awesome. Power of Love by Martha Reeves and the Vandellas is a great track and really features Jamerson in there playing very 70s style R and B but with all of his normal playing style. His deliberate timing variations are awesome and a very important part of his style.

Here is the studio version and - not only is it astonishing how close to the studio version he plays even though it appears at first glance to be improvised to an extent - he is also higher in the mix (cos it ain't the 60s!!). I believe it's largely all in the mind and fingers. 

 

Edited March 10, 2018 by drTStingray