Singing Tips for the Reluctant

[lurksalot]

11 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

The self-consciousness thing is the hardest to overcome. You'll never really know what you're capable of if you're always holding back in embarrassment.

I used to commute on a very loud motorbike, wearing a full face helmet. I could ride into Central London singing as loud and as committed as I could manage, secure in the knowledge that no one could possibly hear me.

 

The trick here is to pick the correct gear to be in and the appropriate speeds , that way when you get the revs right you can do the proper motorcycle karaoke  

[EJWW]

This is a great discussion and timely for me as I am finally starting to contribute backing vocals in my pub rock covers band.

I love singing bass players such as Geddy and Mark K and deeply aspire to sing lead vocals while playing bass one day.

My biggest fear really is singing with my wife in the audience, for some reason I just seem to shrivel up and lose it knowing that she can hear me despite the fact that she is 100% supportive of me and I nail it in the rehearsal room - why is this?

[T-Bay]

52 minutes ago, EJWW said:

This is a great discussion and timely for me as I am finally starting to contribute backing vocals in my pub rock covers band.

I love singing bass players such as Geddy and Mark K and deeply aspire to sing lead vocals while playing bass one day.

My biggest fear really is singing with my wife in the audience, for some reason I just seem to shrivel up and lose it knowing that she can hear me despite the fact that she is 100% supportive of me and I nail it in the rehearsal room - why is this?

You value the opinion of someone close far more than some random strangers. I will blast out backing vocals to a pub full of people but still wary of fully going for it in the house. Similarly I want to do some lead vocals and have been practicing a couple of songs hard to keep the quality whilst playing and making good progress. May take a couple of beers to step up to singing the lead at a gig though.

[Sandy 5]

EJWW sounds like love mate, roll with it!

I remember an article with Geddy Lee saying he started by singing what he was playing, finding words to match the rhythm. I've also had that tip from an excellent guitarist and singer. It's something I always mean to practice but then...I like to play more than sing haha

[dmccombe7]

10 hours ago, Sandy 5 said:

EJWW sounds like love mate, roll with it!

I remember an article with Geddy Lee saying he started by singing what he was playing, finding words to match the rhythm. I've also had that tip from an excellent guitarist and singer. It's something I always mean to practice but then...I like to play more than sing haha

Did Geddy not play some of the vocal lines on his bass while he sang on the earlier Rush stuff. Talking way back in 70's i'm sure i heard him play along with the vocal lines on occasion. Might be wrong but sure some of the Geddy experts will comment soon tho. 

[SpondonBassed]

10 hours ago, EJWW said:

This is a great discussion and timely for me as I am finally starting to contribute backing vocals in my pub rock covers band.

I love singing bass players such as Geddy and Mark K and deeply aspire to sing lead vocals while playing bass one day.

My biggest fear really is singing with my wife in the audience, for some reason I just seem to shrivel up and lose it knowing that she can hear me despite the fact that she is 100% supportive of me and I nail it in the rehearsal room - why is this?

I had the same thing when I had to perform with my Mum in the audience.  I was in my early fifties!

The performance was in a church.  The sound of the building was huge.  I hadn't sung in church before.  Previously, as part of the congregation, I'd mouth the words and mumble a lot.  I wouldn't be able to do that here.  In my favour, one could not have chosen a better place for us to perform.  We were at the acoustic focal point of the building so we were heard without amplification even when we were accompanied for a couple of tunes by the church band.

I had always felt uncomfortable practising with either of my parents in the house.  I think my experience in primary school made me careful about who was listening in case I was picked out and groomed as before.  I kicked all of those fears into touch by singing with the Mixed Blessings choir of Spondon that evening.

The job at hand took over as I remembered my lines and took my place in the harmony of voices.  I was well practised, the audience were mature and had come to see the choir as the main event.  I had the best feeling afterwards.  Mum was more worried about getting home to her tea at the end.  She was complimentary, naturally but it wasn't a big deal for her the way I had perhaps expected it to be.  For me that was a bit of an anti-climax really but in a good way.

Better late than never I suppose.  There is no point in regretting decades of suppressing my singing voice now that I've found it again.  I'd just suggest you try not to leave it as long as I did.

I couldn't say what your reasons are/were.  Maybe reading about mine will help.

[Sandy 5]

26 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Did Geddy not play some of the vocal lines on his bass while he sang on the earlier Rush stuff. Talking way back in 70's i'm sure i heard him play along with the vocal lines on occasion. Might be wrong but sure some of the Geddy experts will comment soon tho. 

I wouldn't be surprised but couldn't tell you for sure!

[Dave Vader]

Conversely if my music teacher at school hadn't forced the entire class to either be in the choir or drop the subject, I probably wouldn't be able to hold a tune.

[SpondonBassed]

5 minutes ago, Dave Vader said:

Conversely if my music teacher at school hadn't forced the entire class to either be in the choir or drop the subject, I probably wouldn't be able to hold a tune.

That would have suited me better than being singled out and treated like a hot house flower.

I grew to hate that school just because of that one Drama teacher.  Had we not moved I'd be a far bigger misfit than I am now.  Guaranteed.

[stewblack]

Just teamed up with a great vocalist who is also a voice coach. She proudly claimed she could teach anyone to sing and I couldn't resist. 

No band I've ever been in would let me near a microphone unless there was a fire and we needed to clear the room. I sing like a cow with a throat infection giving birth to a tumble dryer.

However she has taken up the challenge. All of the work so far has been around understanding my body, breathing properly, hissing and humming. Not a word has passed my lips in three lessons and I am amazed to find the process fascinating. I'm actually excited to continue and while I still doubt her chances of getting a noise from me which wouldn't startle passers by and cause the dogs to hide, I am enjoying finding out just how a real singer goes about their business.

Turns out that they actually practice every bit as hard as we do. The voice really is an instrument which requires work. Who knew?

My respect for vocalists will of course never be more than marginally higher than that with which I esteem guitarists, but I do feel slightly less contempt for them.

[Phil Starr]

I'm finding this whole thing strangely affirming. All the nerves every time I have to sing (BV's only) Finding out you have to practice and learn to sing, who knew?

I had the experience at school of the music teachers who either wanted you in the choir or didn't want to know. In my case they listened to me once, told me I couldn't sing and had to drop music, a bit hard on an 11 year old.

Probably as a result of considering myself a non-singer I'm finding the embarrassment factor quite a problem. Particularly the thought of going to a tutor and having someone actually listen to my voice is slightly more intimidating than walking up Oxford Street totally naked. So it would be great to get as many practical tips as possible.

The thing I'm having a real problem with at the moment is Elbow's 'One Day like This'. If we are to do this as a duo I have to sing the 'throw those curtains wide' bit. I can hit the notes but can't hold them for more than a couple of repetitions of the line. I get the build up of something on my vocal chords and my voice starts to make odd sounds. I need to cough and then can't sing a note reliably for the rest of the evening. It happens elsewhere but only temporarily and a quick cough clears it.  Any ideas? It feels like something mechanical.

My one tip for anyone starting to sing with a band, get a good personal monitor. Knowing you can hear yourself better than anyone in the band or audience really helps.

[SpondonBassed]

2 hours ago, stewblack said:

Just teamed up with a great vocalist who is also a voice coach. She proudly claimed she could teach anyone to sing and I couldn't resist. 

No band I've ever been in would let me near a microphone unless there was a fire and we needed to clear the room. I sing like a cow with a throat infection giving birth to a tumble dryer.

However she has taken up the challenge. All of the work so far has been around understanding my body, breathing properly, hissing and humming. Not a word has passed my lips in three lessons and I am amazed to find the process fascinating. I'm actually excited to continue and while I still doubt her chances of getting a noise from me which wouldn't startle passers by and cause the dogs to hide, I am enjoying finding out just how a real singer goes about their business.

Turns out that they actually practice every bit as hard as we do. The voice really is an instrument which requires work. Who knew?

My respect for vocalists will of course never be more than marginally higher than that with which I esteem guitarists, but I do feel slightly less contempt for them.

It's not as easy as it looks but like you say, it's fascinating to learn what your own voice is capable of when guided by knowledgeable folk.

The MD of Royce's male voice choir assessed me as being bass/baritone.  She said that with practice I would tend more towards one or the other as I developed my lungs, breathing and delivery.  You've got to be fitter than I realised too.  I even took up swimming again to help.  I am more baritone now.  Years of smoking in the past has the effect of making my voice drop in air conditioned spaces so I can still get right down there on occasion.  I don't attempt it for anything other than self amusement though.

A word of warning however:

If you are giving birth to any more tumble driers try not to deliver a Hotpoint.  You'd run the risk of igniting one of your own cow farts and the resulting containment failure would take ages to clean up.  Think of the environment, please.  Hope the throat infection clears up soon.

Edited March 11, 2018 by SpondonBassed

[SpondonBassed]

19 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

I'm finding this whole thing strangely affirming. All the nerves every time I have to sing (BV's only) Finding out you have to practice and learn to sing, who knew?

I had the experience at school of the music teachers who either wanted you in the choir or didn't want to know. In my case they listened to me once, told me I couldn't sing and had to drop music, a bit hard on an 11 year old.

Probably as a result of considering myself a non-singer I'm finding the embarrassment factor quite a problem. Particularly the thought of going to a tutor and having someone actually listen to my voice is slightly more intimidating than walking up Oxford Street totally naked. So it would be great to get as many practical tips as possible.

The thing I'm having a real problem with at the moment is Elbow's 'One Day like This'. If we are to do this as a duo I have to sing the 'throw those curtains wide' bit. I can hit the notes but can't hold them for more than a couple of repetitions of the line. I get the build up of something on my vocal chords and my voice starts to make odd sounds. I need to cough and then can't sing a note reliably for the rest of the evening. It happens elsewhere but only temporarily and a quick cough clears it.  Any ideas? It feels like something mechanical.

My one tip for anyone starting to sing with a band, get a good personal monitor. Knowing you can hear yourself better than anyone in the band or audience really helps.

Obvious question, I know but do you smoke or do you live with someone who smokes?  What about vaping?  I am not sure about the latter but I suspect it affects the voice in much the same way.

Do you warm up or wind down your voice before and after performance?  If not, try a few warm up and wind down exercises.  There are lots of YT voice coaches to show you how.

If it's none of those and it is a recurring thing with your voice I'd suspect an allergy may be at the back of it.  I have allergic rhinitis and even though it's a problem with my nose, my throat can get a bit gluey sometimes too.

[Phil Starr]

1 hour ago, SpondonBassed said:

Obvious question, I know but do you smoke or do you live with someone who smokes?  What about vaping?  I am not sure about the latter but I suspect it affects the voice in much the same way.

Do you warm up or wind down your voice before and after performance?  If not, try a few warm up and wind down exercises.  There are lots of YT voice coaches to show you how.

If it's none of those and it is a recurring thing with your voice I'd suspect an allergy may be at the back of it.  I have allergic rhinitis and even though it's a problem with my nose, my throat can get a bit gluey sometimes too.

No, I'm incredibly old but never smoked, no health issues and I'm pretty fit, gym and cycling/walking. Any YT coaches you'd recommend, there are sooo many it's hard to know, and they contradict each other a bit.

[SpondonBassed]

1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

No, I'm incredibly old but never smoked, no health issues and I'm pretty fit, gym and cycling/walking. Any YT coaches you'd recommend, there are sooo many it's hard to know, and they contradict each other a bit.

I didn't have any one in mind.  I think it's good to cherry pick.  Not all of them are qualified.

It is likely that your age has a lot to do with your vocal stamina.  You might be able to improve your situation with attention to diet and exercise.  Get a routine medical check-up and ask the question while you're there.  Even if it is just the inevitable march of time that is causing the 'build up' on your vocal chords the practitioner should have some tips on how to cope better with phlegm.

From this:

'Excessive phlegm creation

There are multiple factors that can contribute to an excess of phlegm in the throat or larynx.

• Vocal abuse: Vocal abuse is the misuse or overuse of the voice in an unhealthy fashion such as clearing the throat, yelling, screaming, talking loudly, or singing incorrectly.
  • Clearing the throat: Clearing the throat removes or loosens phlegm but the vocal cords hit together causing inflammation and therefore more phlegm.^[2]
  • Yelling/screaming: Yelling and screaming both cause the vocal cords to hit against each other causing inflammation and phlegm.^{[3][4][5][6][7]}
  • Nodules: Excessive yelling, screaming, and incorrect singing as well as other vocal abusive habits can cause vocal nodules. See vocal fold nodule for more information on nodules.'

[Happy Jack]

Vocal abuse is the misuse or overuse of the voice in an unhealthy fashion

Well there's your problem straight away. 

Vocal abuse is swearing at someone. Vocal misuse is using your voice in an improper fashion.

On-line stuff is all very well, and some of it is really very good ... if you can find the good stuff and recognise it.

But if you're an absolute beginner, then there is no substitute for a couple of one-on-one sessions with an actual voice coach, who can identify what you're doing wrong and show you how to do it right.

No on-line voice coach is going to see that your posture is all wrong, you're not breathing properly, and you're straining too hard for that note.

Ultimately, you get what you pay for. And on-line coaches cost nothing.

Just saying ...

 

[SpondonBassed]

11 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

...No on-line voice coach is going to see that your posture is all wrong, you're not breathing properly, and you're straining too hard for that note.

Ultimately, you get what you pay for. And on-line coaches cost nothing.

Just saying ...

 

You'll get no argument from me on that.

I'm all for it if it prevents me from hocking up a gold watch inside my visor whilst singing my practice set onboard a CX500 that is cranked over at 45 degrees to the horizontal going 'round Wembley roundabout!

[Max Normal]

My tip for BV's:

First get the bassline off pat so your hands can play by themselves and you can dissociate your mind.

Then I learn the notes of the BV's by playing them as a pattern of notes on my bass.  That way I can remember them as a bassline and always remind myself of what i should be singing.

For LVs and BVs, some notes resonate with your chest, some in your throat, some with your sinuses, find out which notes are resonating which part and imagine you are singing through that part of your body.  Sing through your nose and mouth at the same time. If you struggle to hit the high notes, imagine you are singing through the top of your head or your frontal sinuses.  If you need dirty bluesy sounding vox, tighten your vocal chords.

Practice and Fishermans Friends will extend your range.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Max Normal

[ben4343]

On 3/11/2018 at 09:29, Phil Starr said:

My one tip for anyone starting to sing with a band, get a good personal monitor. Knowing you can hear yourself better than anyone in the band or audience really helps.

 

3 hours ago, Max Normal said:

My tip for BV's:

First get the bassline off pat so your hands can play by themselves and you can dissociate your mind.

Then I learn the notes of the BV's by playing them as a pattern of notes on my bass.  That way I can remember them as a bassline and always remind myself of what i should be singing.

These are the tips I would have given. I'm not going to change the world with my singing, but can hold a tune and am happy enough doing backing vocals if the lead singer is good. I struggle the most if my monitoring is bad and/or the other singer is wonky; I can get dragged off key if so.

I have also done lead a few times, and the first line of each song is always the hardest - once it's underway I settle in to it. Sometimes, if volume levels allow, I even sing the first bar to myself one early, so I know my pitch is set. Singing at volume is also much easier than singing in the living room - notes are much more attainable, and my voice thickens up. I have heard tilting your head up slightly helps open everything up too, so I ensure my mic is nice and high.

[Sandy 5]

Crazy tip I heard that really isn't when I think about it...if you're a bit flat, smile a bit. Tightening the muscles in your face sharpens the note. A bit.

[Happy Jack]

It's definitely easier to sing high notes if your mouth is in 'letterbox' shape.

Try singing a high note with a 'round' mouth (a big O) if you want to check.

[Norris]

Last year our guitarist/lead vocalist had a bout of bronchitis and his voice still isn't up to strength. The drummer and I are going to have to step up to the plate a bit more to give him some rest time. Although I've been doing BVs and the occasional lead for years I appreciate the advice on here. Certainly last weekend I did about the best performance ever of the one I do lead vox on, mainly down to singing with confidence. The more you do the better it gets

[Happy Jack]

And a lot of that confidence will come from actually hearing what you're singing. Monitoring is essential.

I'm a big fan of https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/wharfedale-wpm1 and similar units.

 

[EliasMooseblaster]

May I just say what an encouraging (and occasionally entertaining) thread this has been.

Now, to business: what advice do you have for somebody with a deep bass register who's pretty sure he can feel a cold coming on but is going to have to sing a couple of hours' worth of lead vocals in a couple of days' time?

[Dad3353]

Hot lemon and honey, Beecham's Powders optional.