It Took Me Long Enough to Discover the Sans Amp

[plangentmusic]

I've never been a fan of overdrive on bass. I like a clean sound where the notes are clear.  Yet, there was a sound that certain people got that always eluded me.  Geddy Lee, Marcus Miller, Steve Harris, Chris Squier all had it with different playing styles. It was crunchy but not distorted. Tons of tone , but not an EQ'd sound.  I assumed it was a boutique tube amp of some sort.  Then I discovered the Tech 21.  20 years after it came out. 

DOH!

Anyone ever discover something way after the fact and want to kick themseleves for not knowing sooner? 

 

[BassBod]

I know when I got my first Sansamp, early 90's I guess, it took me about a year to work out how to use it.  Then it was forever with me...and still is.  One thing that confused me was the original instructions, which just showed the blend at full effect for pretty much everything - that never worked for me.  Far too much. Once I'd got through that bit it was all good.  I'm still not sure which I like most, the original flavour Bass Driver or the newer VT but they still get used on most of my work.

[wateroftyne]

It's got a very baked-in tone - if you like it, you're in luck. I couldn't get on with the mid-suck.

[plangentmusic]

The VT version , to me, seems more like a distortion pedal, whereas with the Sans Amp  you can dial in just a touch. Yes, it does take away some mids but I think that's emphasized by the fact that it adds so much highs and lows. 

[Cat Burrito]

I never used to use effects until I discovered the Sansamp VT Tech 21. I now have a few that I use and my is VT pedal is usually left it on all the time. Very occasionally in a couple of venues it sounded better without it, I guess it depends on the room. Normally it improved my tone immensely. I also used it in the studio as a whole rig. Definitely easier getting it up the stairs than my Ampeg Portaflex all valve job!

[Tech21NYC]

The Bass Driver DI was designed as a tone shaping direct box. The concept was to plug into the DI and send the "parallel" output to your bass amp and use your amp for your stage monitor and tone. The Bass Driver DI's XLR would be sent to the mixer and would be set for the most desirable DI tone. The Bass Driver does have a specific tone with a midrange dip that many find desirable. When running into the front of an amp it usually sounds best if your amp is set flat. If your amp is set with a midrange dip (which is quite common) or you have an active bass with a similar setting, this will be exacerbated using the Bass Driver DI. It really comes down to whether or not you use the pedal as an always on effect or like to turn it on and off. Usually backing down the Blend or reducing the Bass and Treble (plus increasing the midrange for the V2 pedal) will take care of this. If you require more midrange content you might consider our Para Driver DI, VT Bass DI or Q\Strip (no amp emulation though) products.

There seems to be a misconception about tube emulation and tube amps in general. I guess if you're a younger player and have not had much first hand experience with tube amps it's easy to assume that tubes=distortion which is not true. Natural tube output stage distortion is not so much an effect but a byproduct of pushing an analog circuit beyond its design limits. Tube amps as well as our tube emulation can be set clean. Tube amps were designed to run clean.

Vintage tube amps had no "blend" control. We provide one because in a studio setting it was quite common to mic a tube amp and also run a DI of the bass direct to the console to get a more complex and refined tone. A big part of the problem when recording bass even in a large professional recording environment is that bass frequencies are very hard to control and will easily bleed into other microphones if say tracking other instruments. This tends to be why most studio and live sound techs prefer using a DI versus a mic with bass amps.

Because our products emulate vintage tube amps they are able to achieve their overdrive and distortion characteristics irrespective of their volume levels unlike a vintage Ampeg SVT or Marshall. Because of this, it is advisable to be judicious with the Drive settings as in a live context you will play harder when competing with guitars and drums which will result in more overdrive than intended. 

[wateroftyne]

Thanks for contributing.

It might be my failing memory, but I seem to recall engaging the SansAmp with the blend rolled off still introduced a noticeable change in the mids...?

[BassBod]

Don’t think so, as long as the bass and treble aren’t boosted.  Thanks for the contribution Tech21 - very interesting to read.  I always used mine in front of SWR’s to warm them up a bit - never thought of using the uneffected output for the amp 😳.  After 20 years I’ve retired my original Bass Driver due to scratchy pots (most of them!) Is it possible to “re-pot” a Sansamp and get it back into service?

[Lozz196]

I like the Bass Driver, but found that on its own the mid-scoop wasn`t right for me. In conjunction with another pedal such as the Aguilar Tonehammer it was great, as with everything set flat it really beefed the TH up. So on a quest for a one-pedal solution I happened across the Tech 21 Para Driver, which is a great pedal - sweepable adjustable mids being the great factor on this one. It sounds very much like the Bass Driver in tone, not quite so full-on, but so much more versatile. I love the Para Driver.

[wateroftyne]

16 hours ago, BassBod said:

Don’t think so, as long as the bass and treble aren’t boosted.  

I'm pretty sure this isn't the case - I wrestled for around a year with mine (and the Para, which I had a similar issue with).

In the end I picked up an EBS Microbass II, which had all the functionality and more, but left the mids untouched.

That's not to diss the SansAmp - it's excellent at what it does if that's your thang.

[Musicman20]

http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/bassdriverdi.html

The mids control on the new-ish version is a great additon.

[Raggy]

So is there much difference between the Para Driver and the V2 Bass Driver?

[la bam]

Isnt there something a bit different with the sansamp where to boost the mids you actually turn the bass and treble down?

[Lozz196]

2 hours ago, Raggy said:

So is there much difference between the Para Driver and the V2 Bass Driver?

The real difference is that the mids on the Para Driver are sweepable, from something like 170Hz to 3kHz whereas on the V2 Bass Driver there are just the two frequencies. The V2 also sounded less scooped overall to me when I had one briefly, much more "chunky" sounding imo.

[dave_bass5]

23 hours ago, plangentmusic said:

I've never been a fan of overdrive on bass. I like a clean sound where the notes are clear.  Yet, there was a sound that certain people got that always eluded me.  Geddy Lee, Marcus Miller, Steve Harris, Chris Squier all had it with different playing styles. It was crunchy but not distorted. Tons of tone , but not an EQ'd sound.  I assumed it was a boutique tube amp of some sort.  Then I discovered the Tech 21.  20 years after it came out. 

DOH!

Anyone ever discover something way after the fact and want to kick themseleves for not knowing sooner? 

 

Yep, same here. about 10 years ago i had to do a big gig without a bass rig. I brought a Behringer BDI21 for this one gig. I used it and then didnt bother with it for ages.  a year or so later i got it out to sell it,  it and tried it again, still left me cold but i  persevered with it for a few gigs, as loads of players were raving out Sans amp's. Then one night, it all just seemed to fall in to place and i immediately went and got a BDDI the next day. After this i just cant play without some sort of pre amp. I felt it was all in the Blend knob. Before, i was using it full up, and while that works at home, it was over powering through a rig, once i turned it down things started to sound great.

ive tried to get away form using it over the years, tried a Para driver, been to Darkglass, EBS etc, but always gone back to a BDDI. I dont use it for drive much, but i like the tone it produces.

Just recently ive also discovered real distortion/OD, and how useful it can be even when i need a clean tone. Ive been amazed at how something i could never contemplate using, is now getting the tone ive had in my head, which i never realised included dirt.

[dave_bass5]

34 minutes ago, la bam said:

Isnt there something a bit different with the sansamp where to boost the mids you actually turn the bass and treble down?

That was the old way, but the current version of the BDDI has a proper Mid control, with two selectable mid freq's. the Low knob also has this feature as well. 

[Raggy]

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

The real difference is that the mids on the Para Driver are sweepable, from something like 170Hz to 3kHz whereas on the V2 Bass Driver there are just the two frequencies. The V2 also sounded less scooped overall to me when I had one briefly, much more "chunky" sounding imo.

Thanks Loz

[Tech21NYC]

22 hours ago, wateroftyne said:

Thanks for contributing.

It might be my failing memory, but I seem to recall engaging the SansAmp with the blend rolled off still introduced a noticeable change in the mids...?

With the Blend off and the tone controls at 12 o'clock the unit is flat. The tone controls react differently when the Blend is off.  What were you running the pedal into?

3 hours ago, Raggy said:

So is there much difference between the Para Driver and the V2 Bass Driver?

Very different pedal. The Para Driver DI is more open ended and can be used with many different instruments whereas the Bass Driver DI is optimized for bass. The Para Driver has its sweepable midrange control before the SansAmp circuit which gives it more Drive potential. It also lacks the Presence control which the Bass Driver has. It depends what you're looking for. The Bass Driver is popular with players that like that tone and the ability to get it fast. Your playing style, instrument (active or passive) and what you run the unit into (bass amp, console, power amp etc) all come into play.

With any sound shaping device it helps to know beforehand what specifically you are trying to accomplish. It seems like many players that complain about the unit just bought it without a clear idea of what they wanted. It wasn't designed to be a distortion box although many use it that way. It's a DI/amp emulator and needs to be approached as such. 

[wateroftyne]

3 minutes ago, Tech21NYC said:

With the Blend off and the tone controls at 12 o'clock the unit is flat. The tone controls react differently when the Blend is off.  What were you running the pedal into?

That's what I thought was supposed to happen, but every time I engaged the pedal there was an instant change in the tone.. strange.

At the time, I was running it straight into a poweramp.

 

[PaulWarning]

anybody compared the zoom bass driver sim to the sansamp? because that has a mid control 

late edit, on mine I have bass on -10 treble on -10, presence on -10 and mid on 0 as I want a bit of drive without affecting the EQ

Edited March 9, 2018 by PaulWarning

[visog]

On 3/8/2018 at 13:56, plangentmusic said:

I've never been a fan of overdrive on bass. I like a clean sound where the notes are clear.  Yet, there was a sound that certain people got that always eluded me.  Geddy Lee, Marcus Miller, Steve Harris, Chris Squier all had it with different playing styles. It was crunchy but not distorted. Tons of tone , but not an EQ'd sound.  I assumed it was a boutique tube amp of some sort.  Then I discovered the Tech 21.  20 years after it came out. 

DOH!

Anyone ever discover something way after the fact and want to kick themseleves for not knowing sooner? 

 

So you're a fan of a clean sound yet you cite Geddy Lee and Chris Squire who typically use a fairly gnarly tone (when isolated)? Also I'm not sure Marcus uses much distortion. He is Mr Clean! In fact he's got the crystal super-J pre-amp tone with which I associate him. Anyway all great players and sounds, clean and crunchy. Sansamps sound good, Darkglass too - they have a new B7k Ultra just out v2. I went with a TwoNotes LeBass. All good fun - glad you're on the crunch tone trail now!

[Tech21NYC]

3 hours ago, wateroftyne said:

That's what I thought was supposed to happen, but every time I engaged the pedal there was an instant change in the tone.. strange.

At the time, I was running it straight into a poweramp.

 

It's possible the pots needed to be adjusted slightly. There is a  slight variance but you should be able to toggle the unit on and off to get it flat. Or just keep the pedal in bypass. We measure it on the scope when we test them. 

[FinnDave]

I  glanced at this thread a few days ago and it reminded me I have been carrying a Sans Amp Bass DI around for the last 3 years or so and have only used it once, when my amp stopped working, in order to DI into the PA. I started wondering what else it could do, so sat down and read the instructions (there's a first!) and tried it as a pre-amp, plugged into the FX return of an Ashdown Rootmaster 800, powering a Super Compact. Plugged in a Jazz bass and was amazed at how much better it sounded than just using the Rootmaster. To be fair, I tried to replicate the settings I was using on the sans amp on the Rootmaster, and it sounded better than I usually manage, but not as good as using the SansAmp and just the power amp section of the Rootmaster. Which makes me wonder whether I'd be better off with just a power amp, or even one of Barefaced's powered speakers - less gear to store and carry around.

I'll definitely run the SansAmp into the back of the Rootmaster for the next gig, and see how it sounds out there in the real world.

[dannybuoy]

Definitely an option, see the various FRFR (full range, flat response) threads on here at the moment and you'll see it's all the rage right now. The major boon is being able to get the exact same sound on stage, to the PA, or to in-ear monitors.

[FinnDave]

I can see that would be an advantage. I'll definitely look into it.