Compression - what's all the fuss about?

[Skol303]

9 minutes ago, Osiris said:

Good luck with that 

I live in hope. I really do  

In the meantime here's a useful summary from Fender... a brand that some of us may have heard of:

https://www.fender.com/articles/tech-talk/effects-guide-compression-decompressed

I love this opening line...

"Compression is possibly the single most misunderstood effect that a guitarist can use."

Ain't that the truth.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Skol303

[Al Krow]

32 minutes ago, Skol303 said:

Not really interesting.

Just evidence that we bass players are perhaps deserving of being viewed as the ‘slow learners club’ amongst musicians.

PS: when I can be arsed, I’m going to post a thread explaining the necessity of compression with some audio clips to help illustrate; just so this topic can finally be taken out back, shot in the head and buried for all time.

Until then, as you were.

Bring it on!

[Skol303]

32 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Bring it on!

I will. But it's really less combative than it might seem.

The necessity for using compression is borne out of the laws of physics and well-recognised good practice in sound engineering. It's not something subjective, like whether a new set of strings makes your tone sound 'better'. It's proven by the measurable behaviour of sound traveling through air. All quite dull and predictable, really.

The short story is that every bass player should use a compressor. Because the bass guitar is an instrument capable of producing extremes of both low and high frequency energy, and there's not a cat-in-hell's chance that anyone can compensate for that by 'good technique' alone, least of all during a live performance. This is why 100% of sound engineers apply compressors to bass, to compensate for the 50% of bass players who apparently don't.

Ultimately it's not essential. Just like changing your strings regularly isn't essential. But the question as to whether it's beneficial has been answered long ago, which is why I find threads like this a little tedious (no offence).

Compression is complex and very different to the majority of other FX we apply to our instruments, where we plug something in and turn a dial until we hear a noticeable difference. And I think that is partly why it confuses some people and leads others to believe that it's a case of the Emperor's New Clothes. What I find odd is how this confusion seems most prevalent amongst bass players - the very people who stand to benefit most from compression. You just don't get threads like this appearing on sound engineering forums. Instead, you just get endless debate about 'which compressor is best for bass'... and that's just as tedious!

Anyway. Next time I record some bass I'll post some clips of the dry signal and the same signal (at the same volume) run through a compressor - and also both again in the context of a mix with other instruments - so you can hear the difference.

Until then, my advice would be to cease tilting at windmills  

Edited March 10, 2018 by Skol303

[leschirons]

5 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Here you go - from another forum(!):

"The top picture is an uncompressed signal, the bottom one thru a high-end compressor pedal. You can clearly see how it's worth every penny".

Great thanks, I'm definitely going to buy some. Probably a box of 12 as the nice guy on ebay said they're cheaper in bulk.

[musicbassman]

I've just bought a Spectracomp, and it's rather good.

And just one adjustable parameter - nice and simple.

Suits me well.......... 

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, Skol303 said:

... and very different to the majority of other FX we apply to our instruments...

I think that a lot of the confusion comes from the semantics. While it's possible to use a compressor as an 'effect' (and it can be very beneficial in that role, or not...), that's not the same as using a compressor as 'treatment', where (if correctly applied...) it is always beneficial. If they were different units (FX compressor as a stomp-box, treatment compressors as rack units...), they'd be a bit more clarity. Until then, there'll be lots of folks arguing for one use, but ignoring the other. FX..? Debatable; the jury's out, discussing personal tastes and musical styles. Treatment..? Done and dusted decades ago, nothing to see here.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Dad3353

[Skol303]

^ Strictly speaking, compressors are dynamic 'effects' (anything that alters a signal based on its frequency content and amplitude).

But yeah, I totally agree that using the term ‘FX’ probably confuses matters further, as it implies something that very noticeably alters the signal. And I think therein lies the confusion for some when using a compressor: they either crank it hard until they hear an obvious change (by which point the signal is probably too squashed, depending on genre); or they can't discern any obvious difference and ask "what's the fuss all about?"

Of course the 'Goldilocks Zone' in most cases is somewhere in the middle.

[Bolo]

Compress to impress!

[NancyJohnson]

5 hours ago, Skol303 said:

I will. But it's really less combative than it might seem.

The necessity for using compression is borne out of the laws of physics and well-recognised good practice in sound engineering. It's not something subjective, like whether a new set of strings makes your tone sound 'better'. It's proven by the measurable behaviour of sound traveling through air. All quite dull and predictable, really.

The short story is that every bass player should use a compressor. Because the bass guitar is an instrument capable of producing extremes of both low and high frequency energy, and there's not a cat-in-hell's chance that anyone can compensate for that by 'good technique' alone, least of all during a live performance. This is why 100% of sound engineers apply compressors to bass, to compensate for the 50% of bass players who apparently don't.

Ultimately it's not essential. Just like changing your strings regularly isn't essential. But the question as to whether it's beneficial has been answered long ago, which is why I find threads like this a little tedious (no offence).

Compression is complex and very different to the majority of other FX we apply to our instruments, where we plug something in and turn a dial until we hear a noticeable difference. And I think that is partly why it confuses some people and leads others to believe that it's a case of the Emperor's New Clothes. What I find odd is how this confusion seems most prevalent amongst bass players - the very people who stand to benefit most from compression. You just don't get threads like this appearing on sound engineering forums. Instead, you just get endless debate about 'which compressor is best for bass'... and that's just as tedious!

Anyway. Next time I record some bass I'll post some clips of the dry signal and the same signal (at the same volume) run through a compressor - and also both again in the context of a mix with other instruments - so you can hear the difference.

Until then, my advice would be to cease tilting at windmills  

I'm sure this all makes perfect sense and I appreciate your sterling efforts, but despite my near (evil) genius IQ and Mensa membership, you lost me at I will.

[bazzbass]

The hardest part about using a compressor is to  learn how to use it properly.

 

I have an MXR M87 that's been always on for a year or two. The other day I forgot to turn it on and liked my tone better without it. I need to start afresh with the settings. My playing is very even dynamically so I don't need it to correct any technique deficiency but rather to make the bass stand out . Any ideas on how to set it up? Fender P bass with chromes.

[Brook_fan]

16 hours ago, leschirons said:

Great thanks, I'm definitely going to buy some. Probably a box of 12 as the nice guy on ebay said they're cheaper in bulk.

That picture tells us nothing.  No indication of threshold, ratio, attack release etc.  All of which which produce different looking pictures according to their settings.

And the whole idea of compression is that, unless you want it to, it does t have to be noticeable to be really effective .

And why has this thread got quite political? 🤔

[Cuzzie]

@bazzbass one thing could be that because there has been a change in sound, then being different you initially think it’s better because it is different sound.

Regarding staring again, has anything else changed in your chain?

i always advocate starting on minimum, then maxing everything, then everything in the middle, note all differences and then notch through the parameters till you get a pleasing sound.

Snap a photo of your old settings, don’t look at it and then see where you end up with the new one!

[Cuzzie]

@Brook_fan if it’s in relation to Europe stuff, it was only mentioned once or twice, andnthats my fault, but actually it’s sort of relevant and comparative.

According to the figures it’s a 50-50 split, each camp will believe they are right and will trot out reasons for it, and the debate will roll on........going no further as I certainly don’t want to politicise it!

[Brook_fan]

2 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

@Brook_fan if it’s in relation to Europe stuff, it was only mentioned once or twice, andnthats my fault, but actually it’s sort of relevant and comparative.

According to the figures it’s a 50-50 split, each camp will believe they are right and will trot out reasons for it, and the debate will roll on........going no further as I certainly don’t want to politicise it!

Well there was the hint to the US election as well, but no matter.

The way I think of compression is this: imagine you are playing a repeating 4 crotchet per bar pedal bass line (typical rock bassline).  You are heavily accenting the first beat of the bar.  Now, with your compressor you could, if you set it up right, completely get rid of those accents so that each note has equal weight.  It would also make the bassline appear louder because the three other notes in the bar that were quiet are now the same level as the accented note.

Or you can reduce the accented notes a little bit still have them accented.  This is probably what most bass players should and do do with a compressor.  Preserving the natural dynamics to some extent, but making sure those quieter notes don’t get lost amongst the rest of the band.

I don’t subscribe to the view that compressors make up for poor technique.  It’s all about what you want to achieve. And no, I don’t use one.

[Cuzzie]

@Brook_fan ah yes, that was probably because the OP also posted the same thread on Talkbass at the same time and was relaying 1 of those results not in favour of compression, and I just pointed out in the interest of balance that the other 99% of replies thought it was just another thinly veiled compressor bashing thread.

And I cannot disagree with your description of a use for compression amongst the many out there depending how you set it up

[PaulWarning]

I would have thought it was simple, if you think compression does something and you like it, use it, if you think it does nothing, or you don't like it what it does, don't use it, I really don't see the point in one camp trying to convince the other by starting to insult them, me? I can't tell what they do but I use a sansamp bass drive sim so it's not surprising

[Bolo]

2 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

if you think compression does something

It's not religion or alternative medicine, it is a clearly described, measurable mechanism.

Personally, I'm with Skoll on this one.

[Cuzzie]

@PaulWarning I agree with you totally, from having read a numerous amount of threads it seems to me the no compression group say prove you don’t need it, the compression group give examples of where compression is used at every point along a signal chain, whether intentional or not, and then things like it’s a cover up for sloppy technique, I don’t use one and my sound is fine comes out, yes it happens in studio recorded music and that’s fine, but no need live, The audience won’t notice etc and it all descends.

Is it compressor as a function, as an effect, as a limiter, for sustain.........

I Suppose the question is do you want an additional compressor pedal or rackmount, in addition to  the natural compression happening in your chain?

If you want to yes, if you don’t, don’t. If you want to experiment do it!

[project_c]

1 hour ago, Brook_fan said:

That picture tells us nothing.  No indication of threshold, ratio, attack release etc.  All of which which produce different looking pictures according to their settings.

And the whole idea of compression is that, unless you want it to, it does t have to be noticeable to be really effective .

And why has this thread got quite political? 🤔

The OP made a comment in reference to politics, but it does bring up some interesting parallels. On one hand you have uninformed opinion based on 'belief' and a lack of ability to comprehend simple facts (about compression), and proudly shouting about it. Meanwhile on the other you have a rational explanation (of compression) from people who know what they're talking about, which gets completely ignored.

It's an interesting reflection of divisions that exist elsewhere.

[Al Krow]

9 minutes ago, project_c said:

The OP made a comment in reference to politics, but it does bring up some interesting parallels. On one hand you have uninformed opinion based on 'belief' and a lack of ability to comprehend simple facts (about compression), and proudly shouting about it. Meanwhile on the other you have a rational explanation (of compression) from people who know what they're talking about, which gets completely ignored.

It's an interesting reflection of divisions that exist elsewhere.

Whilst trying to stay apolitical, you do make an interesting point - but worth remembering that (unlike on compression) the 'experts' with their 'rational' explanations aren't always right. In fact they can be ridiculously and shamefully off the mark. And nope I'm very unlikely to ever be taken in by Russian propaganda  

[T-Bay]

11 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Whilst trying to stay apolitical, you do make an interesting point - but worth remembering that (unlike on compression) the 'experts' with their 'rational' explanations aren't always right. In fact they can be ridiculously and shamefully off the mark. And nope I'm very unlikely to ever be taken in by Russian propaganda  

True, but when every single expert says the same thing, then there is a very good chance there is a reason for that.

[Cuzzie]

@Al Krow i know you like to challenge things, and have gone toe to toe with Alex Claber on physics of cabs, sound dispersion etc...........

But did you know one of your spats that you were going toe to toe with on compression onTalkbass is Frank Appleton who is a CEO of FEA labs, and may know a thing or 3 about compression.

Yep those guys could be way off the mark in what they are saying........

[la bam]

Ive said it for years - change the names of these pedals from 'compressors' to something like 'sound balancer'  and people would get it more and know what theyre aiming for.

Ps i know sound balancer is a terrible name, but you know what i mean.

The name compressor immediately gives the image of squashing and squeezing the tone, which it doesnt need to be used for.

Edited March 11, 2018 by la bam

[Al Krow]

@Cuzzie What's your point?

{politics and religion removed. Rich}

Frank knows a lot more about compression than me for sure. As does @Skol303 and @51m0n who are both immensely helpful but more importantly always courteous to those that have less knowledge than them; it was the aggressive nature of Frank's responses that I was standing up to. Never been a fan of the bully pulpit. On the other hand it's great that someone of Frank's calibre is willing to engage in discussion.

I don't have any FEA labs' gear on my board. And if they closed down, I almost certainly wouldn't notice (unlike the demise of Gibson under it's current appalling management) - a bit like an audience not noticing if I switch off my Cali 76CB mid track. (Did you see what I did just there in terms of getting this back on track?)

Oops, just confessed to having a compressor  

 

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by Rich

[Cuzzie]

🤦🏾‍♂️

You actually moved it off track when in publishing interim results saying 50% of people don’t have one-that was not the point of the survey.

You also moved it off track posting a graph basically implying compression does nothing for a signal.

Theology and politics(my fault) are bad examples(beliefs are too tricky), a better example would be more like me telllling Nuno Bettencourt his songs and progressions and guitar playing is wrong based on the fact I got my 6 string out at a campfire a couple of times.

So, in the spirit of keeping it on track and staying true to the title (I know your blurb challenged people to do it at a gig)

Did anyone notice a difference in the sound (pleasant or unpleasant either way) turning your compressor on and off be it gig, bedroom, house, solo, band rehearsal or any situation?

(see what I did there?!)

Edited March 11, 2018 by Cuzzie