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Compression - what's all the fuss about?

Al Krow

By Al Krow,
in General Discussion

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Compression - what's all the fuss about?  

65 members have voted

  1. 1. Did anyone notice or comment when you switched your compressor off mid-song?

    • Yes - one person (or more) said that something sounded different about the bass part way through.
      9
    • No - no one batted an eye lid!
      21
    • I don't use a compressor but I'm interested in the result anyway.
      35

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oldslapper Grand Master

oldslapper

Posted
Posted

In 40 years of playing bass, a BBE Opto Stomp compressor pedal is the only pedal I have ever used. I bought it & used it for a month at 3 gig's.

I had no idea how to use it, and couldn't discern any difference in my sound other than when I turned the controls up and got a "squashed" sound. 

A support band bassist borrowed my rig including the Opto Stomp, and commented how great it was & offered to buy it off me....which he did. I never heard their sound check, but listen to their set. The bass sounded unremarkable (FOH festival rumble).

What's my point? No idea...

Other than (understatement alert)... perhaps knowing how & why a piece of equipment works, is the way to get the best out of it. 

I'm pretty sure sound engineers put compression on my signal....I've never asked & don't intend to, I don't care.

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Bluewine Grand Master

Bluewine

Posted
Posted
On 3/10/2018 at 04:01, Al Krow said:

Haha!

Yes they certainly do!

But on this (and many other things) Blue

My dear chap, I can't speak for you. 

The US is a different kettle of fish

On many things, that much we can agree is true?

 

@NancyJohnson the Philistines were much under-rated methinks. History is written by the victors.

Lot's of varibles, even in the States. 

What we do and what happens in our Midwest for bar bands can be different on the east and west coat.

For me and other Seniors still gigging so many things have changed, attitudes, what motivates musicians, disipline the list goes on.

The main thing that bugs me are those that don't see the value in learning to play material correctly. If you want to switch things up and add your own spin after you know a song that's fine. But starting out derrière backwards is not my disipline.

Blue

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grandad Proficient

grandad

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 3/10/2018 at 08:00, NancyJohnson said:

Call me a philistine, but I've never really understood what a compressor actually gave me in a live context.  I had one for a while (Electro Harmonix Black Finger) and all it really did was take up too much space on my board.

Kejserens nye Klæder.

Well here I go again -

Knowing what compression does to live sound is important and will lend confidence in your performance. It is not primarily an effect that you twiddle with to get the sound you want, rather a useful aid in taming dynamics and giving the audience a better listening experience. However, it tends to be employed, (and I'm guilty of this), as another effect on your sound like an extra tone control.

A clear explanation: http://www.studybass.com/gear/bass-effects/bass-compressor-settings/

My plucking technique is I hope such that I can interpret a tune from pianissimo to fortissimo. And I don't want to squash out those dynamics.

I use the standard Spetracomp and no other effects. From zero I turn the single knob control, (which I assume to be threshold), clockwise, until I can just hear the effect on my bass tone. The effect I hear is a slight thickening of my sound, it sounds warmer to me and that's the tone I like, warm and full, some would say a typical scooped tone as I also dip the mids.

So although I use compression sparingly as an "effect" to get the tone I like, I'm also aware of the primary function of compressing my sound in a live situation which is to achieve a comfortable dynamic range of my bass in the mix for the audience.

 

Edited by grandad
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NancyJohnson Grand Master

NancyJohnson

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, grandad said:

Well here I go again -

Knowing what compression does to live sound is important and will lend confidence in your performance. It is not primarily an effect that you twiddle with to get the sound you want, rather a useful aid in taming dynamics and giving the audience a better listening experience. However, it tends to be employed, (and I'm guilty of this), as another effect on your sound like an extra tone control.

A clear explanation: http://www.studybass.com/gear/bass-effects/bass-compressor-settings/

My plucking technique is I hope such that I can interpret a tune from pianissimo to fortissimo. And I don't want to squash out those dynamics.

I use the standard Spetracomp and no other effects. From zero I turn the single knob control, (which I assume to be threshold), clockwise, until I can just hear the effect on my bass tone. The effect I hear is a slight thickening of my sound, it sounds warmer to me and that's the tone I like, warm and full, some would say a typical scooped tone as I also dip the mids.

So although I use compression sparingly as an "effect" to get the tone I like, I'm also aware of the primary function of compressing my sound in a live situation which is to achieve a comfortable dynamic range of my bass in the mix for the audience.

 

Honestly, I do understand that anything outside of a simple signal chain is very much a personal choice and believe me I have tried pretty much every outboard effect during this 40-odd year sojourn, but (BUT!) my experience of what compression gives me personally is a hefty zero.  I saw nothing in what the old EH Black Finger did (or was supposed to be doing) to give me a boner and think, 'Wow, let's do that again.' 

Sure it's more than feasible that in a live/studio context an engineer will apply something so I sit better in the mix FoH, I understand this, but for any other application I've never thought a compressor was a go-to unit on a board and nor will I again.  Each to their own.  I've had dozens of people come up to me and comment on how much they like how I sound and believe me, that's dozens more than people who come and ask me whether I use a compressor. 

Perhaps I'm just lucky, perhaps all that monetary investment and technique has paid dividends and I do actually sound great sans compression.

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Skol303 Experienced

Skol303

Posted
Posted (edited)

This comment allows me to hopefully explain some of the misunderstanding around compression, so if you don't mind I'm going to dive in a dissect it a little :)

Firstly, and with respect (not wanting to single you out), this type of response suggests that you don’t fully understand the purpose of compression. And I’m not trying to be deliberately patronising here! It's just an unfortunate by-product of me trying to explain all this. So apologies and please bear with me.

Unless you are slamming a drum kit with hard New York-style parallel compression, it is very unlikely to ever give someone “a boner” as you put it. Boner causation is just not the purpose of compression, I’m sorry to say. It really is the 'bass player' of audio effects in that respect. Quiet and steady, doing its job, holding things together; no real glamour or glory. That's a compressor.

1 hour ago, NancyJohnson said:

Sure it's more than feasible that in a live/studio context an engineer will apply something so I sit better in the mix FoH, I understand this...

Great! And you can pretty much stop right there, because you've got it - that is precisely the purpose of a compressor. And helping you sit better in the mix should not be understated. It’s the difference between a great-sounding band and indeed, one with potential to bring about boners. Even amongst the female members of the audience.

1 hour ago, NancyJohnson said:

...but for any other application I've never thought a compressor was a go-to unit on a board and nor will I again. 

And that's the part where the misunderstanding sets in. Other than very hard compression, which can be done for effect, there really isn't "any other application" apart from helping even out your signal so that it sits better in the mix. And maybe it's because you expect compression to do something else that you find it underwhelming.

1 hour ago, NancyJohnson said:

Perhaps I'm just lucky, perhaps all that monetary investment and technique has paid dividends and I do actually sound great sans compression.

It's great that people comment on your tone and they most certainly do so because you’re a competent bass player and you use nice gear.

But if you were to give me a bunch of your band's recordings and asked me to mix them, I guarantee there would be moments on each song where your bass is noticeably too loud or too quiet - and this would need fixing if I were to do my job properly as a (albeit unpaid amateur!) mix engineer. I could approach this by trying to automate or ‘ride the fader’: manually adjusting the level of your bass to compensate for loud and quiet notes. Or I could use a compressor to do this automatically.

And the important thing to note here is that a compressor doesn't just apply to the solo instrument: it's about helping that instrument sit well alongside others playing simultaneously. It's a tool for helping to mix the whole band; not a tool for drawing attention to any one player.

Does this matter in a live context? If you, your band and your audience are happy with your sound, then no it probably doesn't. As I’ve said before, compression is rarely essential, but it's nearly always beneficial. If you’re an obsessive like me, who likes to squeeze every % of quality out of a performance (live or recorded), then yes it matters. And that’s why the bass guitar on nearly every recorded song - and played by nearly every professional musician - has compression applied either at source or at the mixing desk. Such pro players have technique in spades and they use compression: because they want to attain the best sound possible. Does a pub band need to do the same? That's a question for you to answer. But if you're spending good money on your instruments and obsessing over string types/gauges, maple/rosewood boards, etc, then you're already obsessing over things that arguably have a lesser effect on your band as a whole than compression.

TL/DR: you can mix your porridge smooth, or you can mix it lumpy. It's still porridge. But if you want to add other ingredients, like some blueberries and bananas, then it's best to mix it smooth for a better overall experience. Simple, right? :) 

Edited by Skol303
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51m0n Mentor

51m0n

Posted
Posted
On 3/11/2018 at 11:11, Cuzzie said:

🤦🏾‍♂️

Did anyone notice a difference in the sound (pleasant or unpleasant either way) turning your compressor on and off be it gig, bedroom, house, solo, band rehearsal or any situation?

(see what I did there?!)

Is that a serious question???

OK so I've mixed at least hundreds of tracks on analogue and digital and who knows what gear. I have mastered probably more than I have mixed. I have mixed live bands I don't know how often, again analogue and digital.

I have used compressors literally thousands of times, digital ones with groovy interfaces, digital ones with just the simplest graphics, analogue ones with multiple controls, analogues ones with odd names for the controls, analogue ones with bugger all controls too :), 'transparent' ones, 'character' ones, fast ones and slow ones.

In the context I tried to use any of these devices:-

Some of them sounded great. In that they did what I hoped they would do, and sometimes a bit more.

Some of them sounded obvious. Which was sometimes great.

Some of them were almost unnoticeable unless it was in the mix, in which case some of them I could just about notice, Which was great if that was what I wanted.

All of them changed the sound of the track they were on in the context of the mix when they were set up how I wanted them to work, otherwise I wouldn't have used them.

Where ever possible I would A/B test them at unity gain with the off signal in order to make that judgement call, its the only way to make the judgement as to whether or not the change is an improvement.

So, yes, obviously, or I wouldn't use them ever, and neither would the other sound engineers who know their shizzle.....

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51m0n Mentor

51m0n

Posted
Posted

And yes, live I use compression on my bass, the kick and snare, on the keys and synth, on the trumpet, bass trombone, tuba, on the guitar, on the congas, the bongos, jeez everywhere! I'm not out front when we are playing, I have to 'contain' the mix, so I mix out front minus the bass, get a great sound, then lay the bass down get a band member to double check the level, and bring a little bit into FOH if its not enough - I've never had to turn down live though.

Without it the mix could drastically shift if someone hits a weird sound or as the band intensity rises through the evening, it would not be great. I have recorded our live shows many times, both multitracked and 2 track from out front to check the mix is good through the night with this system (initially channels were set up by doing a day long technical rehearsal with the whole band to get things sorted out, this has been revised many times since!). It holds together without an FOH guy really well, but we are pretty well rehearsed, and the other guys are superb musicians which is the most important thing (turd polishing is a misunderstood art lets face it).

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51m0n Mentor

51m0n

Posted
Posted

If you are still saying you 100% don't need a compressor or anything that compresses your signal live and in some way people doing so are lesser players (still? really?) or kidding themselves, and you don't have an FOH engineer and a monitor engineer to do this for you, you almost certainly don't understand what compression actually does for the sound in the context of the mix both FOH and in your band-mates' monitors.

Which is cool, but if you don't get that then you really are probably not best qualified to comment on whether they have a use live maybe?

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Cuzzie Veteran

Cuzzie

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Posted

@51m0n it’s by no means serious, I like compression, I see it’s uses and I use it and I try to keep educating myself as best as I can on it, but am not in guys like yours league on it.

I have to say I am not a fan of the question in the thread, and mine was about as silly as that, intentionally 

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Al Krow Grand Master

Al Krow

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Well I hope that it’s not an entirely ‘silly’ poll and given that 40 folk on this forum (and 100 on a US bass forum) have so far have taken the trouble to respond, suggests that they were open to the question, too!

I’m actually interested to see what impact folk think that compression has on audience reaction and I'm sure that there are plenty of respondents who know how to use their compressors very well and to good effect.

What is remarkable is the consistency of responses both in the (a) UK (& abroad) and also (b) the US (& abroad), the percentages are as follows to the 3Qs:
(a) UK (& abroad): 1. 12.5%  2. 35.0%  3. 52.5%

(b) US (& abroad): 1. 12.7%  2. 33.7%  3. 53.6%

In both cases there's been a lot of interest from folk who don't own compressors who are keen to find out what, if any, audience reaction is to it, no doubt considering whether they should be thinking about putting one on their board? 

Given that compression is one of the most 'behind the scenes' pedals in what it's doing in terms of keeping the bass in balance and more tightly in the mix, it's interesting to me that fully one quarter of compressor users felt that audiences noticed the difference when they are not being used. That's actually a pretty big affirmation in itself, wouldn't you say?

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Ghost_Bass Proficient

Ghost_Bass

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Posted

To answer the thread:
If you know how to set up a compressor properly nobody in the audience will notice it's working. If you have decent technique nobody in the audience will notice if you turn it off, but people that are aware about sound/eq/tone, normally other musicians, may notice the subtle differences between on and off.

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Skol303 Experienced

Skol303

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I’m actually interested to see what impact folk think that compression has on audience reaction...

The thing is Al, you might as well ask what impact wood glue has on the comfort of a dining chair? (bear with me...!).

The glue helps to hold the chair together. Without it, that function is left to the screws alone. The chair still stands, but it's not as sturdy.

And none of this is noticed by the people who sit on it.

Thats about all I've got left on this discussion. My tank is empty, but I wish you well :) 

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Skol303 Experienced

Skol303

Posted
Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

I regularly gig without a compressor. It invariably ends in hordes of incredulous gig goers RIOTING IN PROTEST because I've ruined their night.

That's because you're confusing a compressor with trousers. Again :D 

Edited by Skol303
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