Class D advice please

[TheGreek]

23 hours ago, andysg42 said:

Thanks for all the advice Bass  chatters.Tried an Aguilar AG700 for a few gigs which was really nice .But went for a Vanderkley Spartan head in the end . Great amp .Recommended . With one or two Vanderkley 410s ,Really moves the air

I've been wanting to try one of these but I haven't seen too many either for sale or to try. Every review I've read has held them up to me very versatile and they seem to be well recommended. Not sure if I've overcome my disappointment with Class D rigs in general though - I've had a Mesa, a Darkglass, Genz Benz amongst others and all have disappointed.

[ped]

TC BH800 is a good option. Loads of power and two 'tone prints' will let you dial in some grit and compression to taste. 

AH just seen you're sorted - enjoy, hope you like it!

[Al Krow]

3 hours ago, TheGreek said:

I've been wanting to try one of these but I haven't seen too many either for sale or to try. Every review I've read has held them up to me very versatile and they seem to be well recommended. Not sure if I've overcome my disappointment with Class D rigs in general though - I've had a Mesa, a Darkglass, Genz Benz amongst others and all have disappointed.

Have to admit such a broad disappointment with Class D rigs generally is surprising to hear, given that most BCers seem to have found kit they really like? What is it about the heads you've used that you have felt has been lacking (apart from that they are not TE)?

I know you're a fan of Spectors  - so it's not going to be an issue of tame PUPs!

Out of interest what cab are you using and how 'coloured' is it?

Folk who didn't particular like the Mesa D800 have found the D800+ to deliver that something 'missing' by providing a better EQ and a variable HPF. Similarly I suspect that Genzler Magellan 800 has moved on from its much admired Genz Benz predecessors? I'm not going to particularly extol the DG M900 as I know that you were not going to be using the on board VMT/B3K dirt and probably had no need for 900W of power;

If you're thinking about spending VK Spartan money on an amp head (and we're talking about £1,500 new here - which is why they are going to be like hen's teeth second hand!) then I'd definitely also recommend checking out the Trickfish Bullhead 1K - it's a bit like the GM800 in that I've not heard anyone say a bad thing about it and pro / semi pro bassists I've spoken to who have tried pretty much every D class, have settled on the Trickfish as just 'nailing' it. 

Edited May 4, 2018 by Al Krow

[Chienmortbb]

The new version of the Ashdown RM500 (RM500 EVO II) is due this month and it has been to weight watchers, Much lighter (2kg) and with a few other improvements it should be good. If 500 W is not enough there will be an 800W soon too.

[la bam]

Just thinking out loud, but those disappointed with class d - what cabs are they using? 1x10s, 1x12s? 

Sometimes for thaat heft you need more than one cab/speaker to get the sound youre after.

[grandad]

I have a TCE BH250 into a BF One10. I am happy with the EQ, and the Spectracomp feature. Built in tuner too. I'll admit not powerful enough for most but it does me. My combo is the TCE BG250-208 and I alternate between the two.

For louder I can use the One10 as an extension to the combo & get the full 250 class D watts. I would do most pubs or WM clubs with it. The bonus is weight and size. Gas has gone. So not disappointed at all here.

[TheGreek]

17 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Have to admit such a broad disappointment with Class D rigs generally is surprising to hear, given that most BCers seem to have found kit they really like? What is it about the heads you've used that you have felt has been lacking (apart from that they are not TE)?

I know you're a fan of Spectors  - so it's not going to be an issue of tame PUPs!

Out of interest what cab are you using and how 'coloured' is it?

Folk who didn't particular like the Mesa D800 have found the D800+ to deliver that something 'missing' by providing a better EQ and a variable HPF. Similarly I suspect that Genzler Magellan 800 has moved on from its much admired Genz Benz predecessors? I'm not going to particularly extol the DG M900 as I know that you were not going to be using the on board VMT/B3K dirt and probably had no need for 900W of power;

If you're thinking about spending VK Spartan money on an amp head (and we're talking about £1,500 new here - which is why they are going to be like hen's teeth second hand!) then I'd definitely also recommend checking out the Trickfish Bullhead 1K - it's a bit like the GM800 in that I've not heard anyone say a bad thing about it and pro / semi pro bassists I've spoken to who have tried pretty much every D class, have settled on the Trickfish as just 'nailing' it. 

I accept that I may be a lone voice, crying in the wind and know that there is a consensus that Class D is the way forward, that Class A/B amps have had their day however I've nearly always been disappointed with the Class D heads I've owned. Most did not live up to it's reputation. In fact,  generally, the better the reputation the bigger the disappointment. I'm sure that there are many DG M9 owners out there who will agree.

You will note that I was very critical of the new TE Elf when I (finally) received it - Yes, it's no secret that I'm a big TE fan but this isn't about brand loyalty - it's a performance issue.

Many a time I've bought a Class D head and ended up doing "The Emperor's Clothes" thing - trying to convince myself that this is as good/better than the Class A head that I'm trying to replace only to realise, two months later, that it isn't living up to my expectations..

I would suggest that the main factor in replacing Class A/B equipment for most of us is weight, NOT because the equipment has failed us in any way. There are many threads here from members extolling the virtues of Class A gear after rediscovering it. 

My criticism with Class D is the lack of warmth and character - irrespective of the cabs being used. I've owned lots of cabs and only brands I would recommend are VDK, EBS and Glockenklang (making me question why I'm actually selling my 1x15). It may be that these are the only ones which give ME the tones that I am after. I recognise that we're not all after the same palette of tones. 

If you're happy with Class D equipment, congratulations. I'm not, so I'll continue to extol the virtues of what I believe is a superior tone. So far, for me that's only been available from the traditional TE equipment...but that still won't stop me looking.

[Al Krow]

@TheGreek for sure not everything is going to work for everyone. Using another example, I totally get why some folk just love valve amps and nothing else will do.

But for me the amp is just one part of the chain - strings, PUPs, cabs and pedals IMHO all have as big (if not individually a bigger impact) on my tone than the amp head I am using.

You have clearly tried a lot of kit and found that you prefer A/B heads to class D so why not just stick to class A/B heads? Are you still only looking for a class D amp to save on weight?

I love my Mesa M6 head which I believe is closer to Class A/B than a Class D in its circuitry. But it's housed in an 80lb combo and so it's very much my guilty pleasure for home use - no way am I lugging that to gigs! I have a 37 lbs Markbass combo which has been perfectly fine over 4 years of smaller venue gigs (and a DG & VK rig that I have recently got for higher end functions). 

Two further thoughts and I'll leave you in peace to enjoy the bank holiday sun and pursue your quest! 

If you like warmth and character, well that has Markbass written all over it - and very possibly this newly released line, which I think is step on from the LM3 head I'm using in terms of its EQ: 

I'm also kinda thinking that you maybe missing a final piece of the jigsaw, in your quest? A LOT of D class amp owners combine their amp with an excellent pre-amp pedal and it's the combination of the two that gives them the sound they're after. The D class amp head isn't quite getting there by itself - which seems to be exactly the conclusion you're reaching, but with a great pre-amp (and there's a goodly selection to choose from) you may find you've hit the jack pot  

Edited May 5, 2018 by Al Krow

[wateroftyne]

2 hours ago, TheGreek said:

I accept that I may be a lone voice, crying in the wind and know that there is a consensus that Class D is the way forward, that Class A/B amps have had their day however I've nearly always been disappointed with the Class D heads I've owned. Most did not live up to it's reputation. In fact,  generally, the better the reputation the bigger the disappointment.

Nah, I'm with you on that. I've given up on them for now.

[EBS_freak]

I think that the crux of the problem is a certain choice of component in these class D amps. Class D as a whole is not the problem - you only have to witness Powersoft amps to clarify that. Certainly no lack of that "heft" that people talk of.

[Lozz196]

On 05/05/2018 at 00:06, Chienmortbb said:

The new version of the Ashdown RM500 (RM500 EVO II) is due this month and it has been to weight watchers, Much lighter (2kg) and with a few other improvements it should be good. If 500 W is not enough there will be an 800W soon too.

Being now on my third one of these, I can`t ever imagine the 500 watts of power that these amps have not being enough - and I`ve only ever paired mine with 8ohm cabs so never got the full beans out of it.I`ve just got to keep reminding myself that this really is the best amp for me as a backup/rehearsal amp and stop playing the field. Def the fullest sounding Class D amp I`ve had.

[FinnDave]

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

Being now on my third one of these, I can`t ever imagine the 500 watts of power that these amps have not being enough - and I`ve only ever paired mine with 8ohm cabs so never got the full beans out of it.I`ve just got to keep reminding myself that this really is the best amp for me as a backup/rehearsal amp and stop playing the field. Def the fullest sounding Class D amp I`ve had.

Yep, I've got a couple of the RM 800 heads and they're great. Never had them above 25% volume, though, even at some sizeable venues. I don't use the front end of the amp anymore, just a Sansamp into the FX return, great sound and loads of power!

[deepbass5]

Thought I'd add to this what i can from my experience

1st class D i got was Markbass LMK ordered at a show about 12 years ago, had to wait for the new kid on the block. It was great never let me down or left me wanting in over ten years with various cabs

2nd was an GK MB500 fusion as back up to the LMK . great amp used mainly for rehearsal and jazz. Great warm amp. EQ presets didn't really suit my cabs ? or basses? to be 1st call.

change of cabs to two Acme 4 ohm, left me looking for a stereo amp with 2 ohm capability. bought an SWR  SM-500 on here to cover the gigs where two cabs were req.

Then got a Mesa Subway D800 to take the strain. Bomb proof design and great depth of tone, 

Just got the Mesa D800+  for the added footswitch mute and tuner out, also greater EQ flex, Gas again + grass greener etc.

So verdict is I would be happy gigging any of these. Gas is the only reason apart from Ohms loading that pushed me to change.

Some amps EQ centers suit certain basses and cabs better. and may be able to respond better to room E.Q ing.

some shops let you try at home / gig  well worth doing if you can.  It is the only way to be sure.

N.B.  An old mosfet amp with a 4x10 cab will always feel good but your back will prefer the class D

[The59Sound]

On 12/03/2018 at 20:30, bubinga5 said:

I recently got one of these. 600w into 4 ohms.  Its just LOUD, !! warm, and very light, built like a tank.  Really cheap if you can find one. 

Absolute steal for the money secondhand. I have a 9.2 and it's awesome through my Schroeder cab. 

[BassmanPaul]

You could take a look at the Mesa D800 and D800+  Fine very well made amplifiers.