Musicianship vs Personality & Stage Appeal

[Oopsdabassist]

2 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

I`m not sure if I have any stage presence, aside from - not my words I should add - looking scary and staring the audience out. Which in fact means that with my middle-aged eyesight I`m just looking at the audience to see if they`re enjoying it.

 

Having been in Lozz's audience a few times I can vouch for the fact that he does indeed look scary and starey! 

[SpondonBassed]

13 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Yeah, Gibbons with Gibsons, has a certain ring to it.

If you really like it.  I'll let you have the intellectual rights for a modest fee plus royalties.

[mrtcat]

It's a balancing act surely. The tipping point is different for different genres. For instance punk or glam rock might be more dependent on stage presence, attitude and style and less dependent on incredible technical ability and theoretical musical understanding than say jazz or classical. I think that 100% of one and 0% of the other would in pretty much all cases end up with a poor viewer / listener experience. 

To keep to blue's original brief I would suggest that for a rock band on the bar / pub scene a 50/50 balance would be pretty much where you want to be but this may vary depending on the style of music a band plays.

[Lozz196]

1 hour ago, Oopsdabassist said:

Having been in Lozz's audience a few times I can vouch for the fact that he does indeed look scary and starey! 

And having met me Russ, you know I`m much more like Bagpuss in character than a threateny-thing.

[Dad3353]

50 minutes ago, mrtcat said:

It's a balancing act surely...

What, spinning plates on sticks on a slack-rope whilst thumping out AC/DC..? Maybe we should try that. 

[SpondonBassed]

3 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

What, spinning plates on sticks on a slack-rope whilst thumping out AC/DC..? Maybe we should try that. 

It would remind me of evenings sat watching the Rolf Harris show on t'telly.  Are you sure you want that effect in your target audience?

[Lozz196]

1 hour ago, SpondonBassed said:

If you really like it.  I'll let you have the intellectual rights for a modest fee plus royalties.

Throw in a few bananas and I`m sure we can negotiate further............

[petebassist]

As long as you have the front-person performing appropriately, I don't think you don't need every band member hamming it up, as long they look professional. Luckily, in my current band (swing jazz n blues) it's not expected. 

I have to hold my hand up and admit to being of the Bill Wyman school of stage presence (AKA Everybody's Favourite Undertaker). If I try to smile too much at the crowd, people look like they're about to call security or the door man I'm afraid. As to theatrical chops. I occasionally lift my right hand an extra couple of inches if I play a long growly note.

[Dad3353]

10 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

It would remind me of evenings sat watching the Rolf Harris show on t'telly.  Are you sure you want that effect in your target audience?

Audience..? What is this 'audience' of which you speak..? (Don't forget, we play for free. How could we be expected to have an 'audience' ..?)

[SpondonBassed]

11 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Throw in a few bananas and I`m sure we can negotiate further............

Sorry mate.  I don't deal in perishables since the public health scare in '07.

I'll throw in a couple of used slacklines though if you're really wanting to wow the crowd

[cetera]

It sounds simple but you know what I believe really appeals to people? A band who are having a good time and can communicate that to the audience and then feed back off the energy the audience sends back in return.

Of course there are exceptions - whinge rock like Radiohead etc but there are exceptions to every rule in life.

Music will always sound better if you have the required level of chops to execute it to the level it deserves/requires..... but a smile and an element of 'personality' or 'charisma' surely helps sell it.

[TrevorR]

It always amuses me that when this topic comes up folks tend to start discussing it in polarised extremes. It's worth bearing in mind that there is a spectrum of different approaches between...

...and...

I think Gary put it very well above. It's about the band demonstrably enjoying being there and connecting in some appropriate way with the audience, wherever on the spectrum that is!

[PaulWarning]

got to agree having a front man with personality is most important, and I always say if the band don't look like you're enjoying it how do you expect the crowd too? even if you can't jump around a lot there's nothing to stop you dressing up a bit, black T shirt with some bands name on it, scruffy blue jeans and dirty trainers just don't cut it IMO, if the level of musicianship is excellent but there's no show a disco would do the job

[HazBeen]

Some pennies from my end:

• If your singer has stage presence, the rest of the band can look like cr@p with the stage presence of a card board box
• And certainly nobody cares about the bass player's looks/persona
• In a bar setting cover bands generally draw more crowds than orignals bands, why?
• Casual listeners prefer listening to what they know, so covers as people are lazy
• If you are a cover band, it does matter how well you cover the original artist and/or make it your own.. comes before presence
• If you are an originals band, it does matter how good your songs are and how well you play them.. comes before presence
• Most bands (certainly my 3 bands, 2 covers, 1 originals) aren't overly busy worrying about what the public might think but we do understand that a show is both playing the songs well and entertaining the crowd. Freddie Mercury: a master, why? He delivered the goods and grabbed the crowd.

[chris_b]

We have a front man who has the demeanour of Bill Wyman's undertaker.

He's a good singer but I'm now resigned to the fact that we're never going to get any return gigs.

[Bluewine]

5 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

If the people on stage look together, look like a band, and connect with the audience even if they don`t say a thing, well already their stage presence has taken a step up.

Agreed, and great point. Looking like a band , 4 people on stage coming off like they know each other and having fun goes a long way.

Blue

[Barking Spiders]

The most boring gig I ever saw outside of a pub was G3 (Satriani, Vai, Fripp) at the NIA in Brum. Sure they had the chops but they generated all the excitement of a sunday morning sermon. I've seen plenty boring gigs inside of a pub too. Competant musicianship and decent playlists was never the problem. Lack of presence and communication with the punters most certainly was.

[petebassist]

Of course if the crowd's getting a little bored you can always set fire to your instrument.

[Barking Spiders]

2 minutes ago, petebassist said:

Of course if the crowd's getting a little bored you can always set fire to your instrument.

Maybe if the punters get bored they should be allowed to set fire to the instruments?

[lowdown]

5 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

Maybe if the punters get bored they should be allowed to set fire to the instruments?

Or maybe set fire to the band?

Back in the 80's (during the Brixton '85 riots), someone run into the pub that we were playing (In Peckham) and threw a Molotov Cocktail at the stage.

Not sure if it had anything to do with the riots, or because we were a ten piece Jazz Funk band, complete with Mullets and Caribbean shirts.....

[Staggering on]

7 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

I`m not sure about this as a whole, but I do know that having worked with great musicians/great song-writers who had those as their only redeeming features, I wouldn`t choose to work with similar again.

I`m not sure if I have any stage presence, aside from - not my words I should add - looking scary and staring the audience out. Which in fact means that with my middle-aged eyesight I`m just looking at the audience to see if they`re enjoying it.

Wearing appropriate clothing for genre, and not looking at the floor, even if you don`t leap about like a deranged gibbon conveys a better stage presence than looking like a bunch of guys who don`t even know each other, and won`t make eye contact with the audience. If the people on stage look together, look like a band, and connect with the audience even if they don`t say a thing, well already their stage presence has taken a step up.

Many(most?) punters" hear what they see "to a certain extent.The last sentence in the quote above is what it's all about.

[project_c]

I make up for my poor musicianship by having no stage presence or appeal whatsoever. I sit with my back to the audience, I wear dirty old clothes, and I pull terrible bass faces at the drummer whilst moaning about his playing. I drink brown ale and smoke crack on stage. If people don't applaud when I take a solo, I turn around and spit on them. I threaten men and make sexy growly sounds at the ladies. I often get so absorbed in the music that I soil myself on stage. I play mellow jazz standards in an intimate wine bar, on a yellow 1987 Kramer with a pick, going through 34 dirt pedals into an SVT and an 8x10 cab.

[SpondonBassed]

4 hours ago, chris_b said:

We have a front man who has the demeanour of Bill Wyman's undertaker.

He's a good singer but I'm now resigned to the fact that we're never going to get any return gigs.

Something about that makes me think of Ian Curtis of Joy Division.  I mean he must have been under a lot of pressure to put on a bit more of a show than British audiences were used to for the tour he never went on.

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, project_c said:

I make up for my poor musicianship by having no stage presence or appeal whatsoever. I sit with my back to the audience, I wear dirty old clothes, and I pull terrible bass faces at the drummer whilst moaning about his playing. I drink brown ale and smoke crack on stage. If people don't applaud when I take a solo, I turn around and spit on them. I threaten men and make sexy growly sounds at the ladies. I often get so absorbed in the music that I soil myself on stage. I play mellow jazz standards in an intimate wine bar, on a yellow 1987 Kramer with a pick, going through 34 dirt pedals into an SVT and an 8x10 cab.

... and you're 'available' any week-end or weekday, for the next few years. Am I wrong..? 

Edited March 14, 2018 by Dad3353

[Bluewine]

1 hour ago, project_c said:

I make up for my poor musicianship by having no stage presence or appeal whatsoever. I sit with my back to the audience, I wear dirty old clothes, and I pull terrible bass faces at the drummer whilst moaning about his playing. I drink brown ale and smoke crack on stage. If people don't applaud when I take a solo, I turn around and spit on them. I threaten men and make sexy growly sounds at the ladies. I often get so absorbed in the music that I soil myself on stage. I play mellow jazz standards in an intimate wine bar, on a yellow 1987 Kramer with a pick, going through 34 dirt pedals into an SVT and an 8x10 cab.

For me, the last 7 years have been the first time in many years of gigging to have a front parson that's a natural. 

First of all she's a young female with not only a beautiful voice she plays soulful blistering leads reminiscent of the early 70 hard rock and blues genre. Were very fortunate to have a 60 plus following. 

Webring back a lot of memories for these folks. We have had instances where people will come up close to the band and sit on the floor to listen and watch, like the "old days". Our BL comes off sincere, she has a great sense of humor, and she can take control of the audience. They love her.

While we have our short comings her stage prencence more than over compensates for them.

Blue

 

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by Bluewine