Great gig, poor turnout

[mrtcat]

Unless your fan base is huge then it's really difficult to rely on your own promotional work no matter how hard you try. The problem is many of your followers will genuinely love the band, many will follow on social media because they are friends / family of the band and want to support their mates but many of these people may love lots of bands, may not actually be really into going to gigs, may not live locally, may have plans already and there's probably a fair few of your followers in their own bands so are out gigging already. You can't expect people to turn out week in week out just because they like your band, no matter how good you are. Maybe once a year or every 6 months.

Being prepared to travel to venues that really work hard at being a successful venue and therefore draw a decent crowd of live music lovers can lead to far more satisfying gigs. HOWEVER these venues can pick the best bands out there usually and will do so in order to give their customers a great night week in week out and therefore protect their hard earned reputation. So use these bad nights as a chance to work on stage craft. Interact with the 10 people in the crowd, hone your banter and performance so that when you get into the better venues you go down a storm and they want you back.

[mcnach]

24 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Yes it is. Simply write some more songs. IME writing a new song is no more complicated than learning a cover.

 

I don't know... I can learn 10 songs by Saturday, but I doubt I can write 10 songs with the band by then. We're not Status Quo

[uk_lefty]

An old mate of mine was in a band that did really well in our small town when they were teenagers. They had a big following, mostly their mates, who would pay a quid on the door to get in to their regular gigs. They were very good by all accounts. He tells me of the time they got their "big break" of playing in the big live venue in the nearest city, an hour away by car, they promoted the hell out of it on the local newspaper and local radio and hired a coach to take all their fans there and back. Literally no fans came at all, just the band and the driver on a fifty odd seater coach. He can laugh about it now but at the time it must have been soul destroying.

That was mid 90's, before everyone stayed at home streaming music. Instead they stayed at home cassette recording off the radio (no regurgitation of Peter Kay jokes please).

[Les]

1 hour ago, bazzbass said:

You still rely on your fans and friends to come to any show you play, right? give em some variety

No, not at all to be honest unless we're local, which isn't that often. Though it's fair to say we do have people who make a point of watching us when we're at their local gig which is usually out of town for us.

[Big_Stu]

In October of 1978 I saw Slade play the first night of six in a nightclub chain. Very little advertising and the bouncers were turning away fans who weren't dressed "smart but casual".

Slade played to 19 punters in a 1000 capacity venue; the smallest crowd in their professional career. they still talk about it yet.

When they came on Noddy Holder said "Jeeesus, did you all come on the same bus?" 

[bazzbass]

18 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Yes it is. Simply write some more songs. IME writing a new song is no more complicated than learning a cover.

now you are being silly. with a cover all the notes are pre determined, nothing for you to add, just copy. No lyrics to write, no structure to decide upon. No solo to write, just copy what is already done. How is that the same as writing a song from nothing? Seriously your answer has no merit.

[BigRedX]

21 hours ago, mcnach said:

I don't know... I can learn 10 songs by Saturday, but I doubt I can write 10 songs with the band by then. We're not Status Quo

10 songs at a time I'd tend to agree that I'd probably be able to learn 10 new covers in less time then it would take to come up with 10 new original songs that were similarly varied. But one song at a time IME there is no difference in length of time from coming up with a new song idea or picking a song to cover and getting it to a suitable stage to be ready to gig.

 

2 hours ago, bazzbass said:

now you are being silly. with a cover all the notes are pre determined, nothing for you to add, just copy. No lyrics to write, no structure to decide upon. No solo to write, just copy what is already done. How is that the same as writing a song from nothing? Seriously your answer has no merit.

Maybe I'm more creative/productive/prolific than the average musician songwriter and have surrounded myself with equally creative/productive/prolific band members, but I generally come up with 2-3 new song ideas every week, which in conjunction with one songwriting rehearsal every two weeks and normal band rehearsals each week, translates into - at the very least - 1 new completed gig-ready song a month.

For me it's probably harder work learning cover - working out what the notes in the part that I am supposed to be playing are, learning how to play them and the overall song structure, and then modifying what I have learnt to fit an arrangement that suits the line up of the band that is going to be performing the cover - compared with writing a new song from scratch where I am learning my part at the same time as I'm developing the structure and arrangement with my fellow band members.

And if you think that playing a cover is simply a question of copying what is on the recording then IMO you're being completely naive. I've always found that if you want to do the song justice rather than simply bashing your way through it, you have to consider an arrangement that suits the instruments at your disposal, what to do about the numerous overdubs on the studio version that you'll never be able to replicate with your 4-5 piece band, if the key or the original suits the singer, and what to do about songs that have been written in non-standard tunings. 

IME there is just as much work involved in doing a good cover version as there is in writing a song from scratch.

[mrtcat]

22 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Yes it is. Simply write some more songs. IME writing a new song is no more complicated than learning a cover.

Largely agree but it really does depend on having a good bunch of players around you who are focused and capable. I've been in some projects where writing was really easy as everyone worked well together, had great musical understanding and knuckled down to it. We were able to write several songs a month to a good standard and get them tracked and giggable. I've also been involved with bands that have taken weeks just to sort out a bridge because not everyone was focused and some people refused to listen to others ideas etc etc.

[mcnach]

11 hours ago, mrtcat said:

Largely agree but it really does depend on having a good bunch of players around you who are focused and capable. I've been in some projects where writing was really easy as everyone worked well together, had great musical understanding and knuckled down to it. We were able to write several songs a month to a good standard and get them tracked and giggable. I've also been involved with bands that have taken weeks just to sort out a bridge because not everyone was focused and some people refused to listen to others ideas etc etc.

 

In my main band I keep recordings of a lot of our ideas. Part of our 'rehearsing' is actually jamming and/or bringing ideas to the band and playing around with things. Some things develop into a song but they started 3-4 years ago, while other songs just come up one day and two weeks later we're playing it live. We have probably 50-60 decent songs in various levels of "in progress", but with new ideas coming up regularly... most don't get worked on enough. That's just things that already look largely like songs. More basic ideas... we have tons of. Hours and hours and hours of them. I'd love to sit down, select a bunch, and finish them. I tried several times, just picked 10-12, gave them to everyone, hoping that at least a couple would get done. Nothing.

It depends so much on having the right people around. But then, these ideas would not even exist without most of the band either, as nearly everyone contributes something important...

A few years ago we accepted an unusual gig for which we needed an extra hour of material. In two-three weeks we had that hour ready, from older stuff that was nearly ready but not quite. It is possible. But I doubt we'll manage ever again...

[Bluewine]

14 hours ago, BigRedX said:

IME there is just as much work involved in doing a good cover version as there is in writing a song from scratch.

Agreed, original or cover doing it well takes more work than most think.

I hate to say this guys, but most guys in my neck of the woods that are critical of learning covers don't have the ability or disipline to do it.

Blue

[Bluewine]

17 hours ago, bazzbass said:

now you are being silly. with a cover all the notes are pre determined, nothing for you to add, just copy. No lyrics to write, no structure to decide upon. No solo to write, just copy what is already done. How is that the same as writing a song from nothing? Seriously your answer has no merit.

Bazzbass, there's much more to it than that. There are guys that don't have the chops and or ability to accurately play those pre determined notes riffs or structure of a song.

Maybe you can but I could never accurately cover all the notes and nuances in "Teen Town".

Totally disagree.

Blue

Edited March 23, 2018 by Bluewine

[bazzbass]

I don't know any coverbands around here who could even try to play Teen Town lol

 

yes I get your point, but that is hardly the case with your average cover band, not around here anyway.

[Bluewine]

13 hours ago, bazzbass said:

I don't know any coverbands around here who could even try to play Teen Town lol

 

yes I get your point, but that is hardly the case with your average cover band, not around here anyway.

Teen Town probably wasn't the best example.

I've learned that even songs that sound like simple straight forward rock songs are not as easy as one thinks. When I listen to a song through good head phones I'm surprised how tricky bass lines can get. Many time theres overdubbing with several bass tracks being played. Very subtle, but it's there in many cases.

My point, there's a lot more to a proper bass cover than pre determined notes.

Blue

 

[Damonjames]

53 minutes ago, Bluewine said:

Teen Town probably wasn't the best example.

I've learned that even songs that sound like simple straight forward rock songs are not as easy as one thinks. When I listen to a song through good head phones I'm surprised how tricky bass lines can get. Many time theres overdubbing with several bass tracks being played. Very subtle, but it's there in many cases.

My point, there's a lot more to a proper bass cover than pre determined notes.

Blue

 

When I first got involved with my last band, which was a grunge band, I though it would be a dead easy gig playing some really simple but popular songs. Some of you would say the same now...

I was quite quickly brought down to earth!! Not only some complex bass lines, but some awkward time signatures as well. 

Rob DeLeo is one of my favourite bass players of all time. Considering he plays in a “rock” band, some of his lines could quite happily sit in Motown or jazz. Hugely underrated bass player. 

[NancyJohnson]

On 16/03/2018 at 15:46, pbasspecial said:

However, hardly anyone turned up. 

Don't lose sleep over it.  I'd schlep across southern England with my old band playing to near empty rooms.  

You just can't rely on people making anywhere near the equivalent level of effort that we made in trying to do a 45 minute slot.

Better off out of it now.  More fun.

 

[bazzbass]

10 hours ago, Bluewine said:

Teen Town probably wasn't the best example.

I've learned that even songs that sound like simple straight forward rock songs are not as easy as one thinks. When I listen to a song through good head phones I'm surprised how tricky bass lines can get. Many time theres overdubbing with several bass tracks being played. Very subtle, but it's there in many cases.

My point, there's a lot more to a proper bass cover than pre determined notes.

Blue

 

yes I agree with your reasoning. Here is a great breakdown of Boston's Hitch A Ride. SO many little parts,all played by Tom Scholz, that together make an awesome song.

 

Edited March 24, 2018 by bazzbass

[bazzbass]

9 hours ago, Damonjames said:

 

Rob DeLeo is one of my favourite bass players of all time. Considering he plays in a “rock” band, some of his lines could quite happily sit in Motown or jazz. Hugely underrated bass player. 

great melodic bassist. His band, the Stone Temple Pilots is hugely under-rated. I've lost count the number of times I've played their greatist hits CDs to people who said they didn't know any of their songs and without fail they all know at least three of them but didn't realise it was STP