How to get my bass feeling like wool? Spec/setup suggestions please.

[Greg.Bassman]

Hi all. Hope you’re well. As a (very) light player, I require as little fight from my bass as I can in order to fret notes comfortably. So I need a low tension setup that is going to promote this. I am trying to discover the right combination of string gauge, tension, material and height etc that is going to provide me with such. Not being the most tech-savvy however, I am often at a loss when understanding which factors determine the playability (feel) of a bass, and what steps I can take to get my bass feeling like wool. This is obviously something that will take some experimentation and spending many hours with my instrument, but I wondered if you had any suggestions to get me started please?

EDIT: One change that I have already made is in my choice of string. After dwindling down my options, I have arrived at DR sunbeam 40-95 bass strings. Lighter gauge = less tension. Also, the round core and nickel wrap is what gives them their ‘softness of feel' that the range has become renowned for. I have also being researching action and radius choice in conjunction with this. I’ve read that it is easier to achieve an (ultra low) action on flatter radiuses; many ‘flat(ter) converts' noting the increased comfort and dexterity, presumably because of the low action and string-string height evenness. If so, what radius inch (ie 12”, 16” etc) would you suggest for someone (like myself) who is looking to employ multiple techniques in their playing?

Edited March 17, 2018 by Greg.Bassman

[Guest Jecklin]

Radius has no effect on action.

However some may feel they are able reduce tension/effort in the left hand further when crossing strings on instruments with a flatter fingerboard.

In which case there simply is no substitute for you getting out and trying some basses, but of course you'll be aware of all the other variables and differences between makes and models, not just the fingerboard radius.

Warwicks I seem to recall have 20" radius.

You can get strings a fair bit thinner in guage than what you are using now.

For a long time I used elites stainless steels in 95-35 and loved them. Before that I played some trace Elliot signature sets 30-90 which the bass centre were flogging off at 8quid a set! (Late 90's)

I had two sets and they died pretty quickly so moved to the Elites.

I know you like the feel and sound of your current strings, but thin guage strings are a great way to reduce tension so keep your eyes peeled for special offers.

 

The relief on your neck will also have a large impact on how your bass feels.

Generally a lighter touch can get away with flatter relief.

Good luck experimenting

Edited March 18, 2018 by Jecklin

[Acebassmusic]

3 hours ago, Greg.Bassman said:

....as little fight from my bass as I can in order to fret notes comfortably.

Does this mean that your main issue is with your left hand only? Are you having to press heavily on the strings to fret cleanly? What is the measurement from the top of fret 1 to the bottom of each of your strings? What bass are you playing?

[Greg.Bassman]

5 hours ago, Jecklin said:

However some may feel they are able reduce tension/effort in the left hand further when crossing strings on instruments with a flatter fingerboard.

Hmmm interesting point you make here. I can imagine how this could be the case.

5 hours ago, Jecklin said:

In which case there simply is no substitute for you getting out and trying some basses, but of course you'll be aware of all the other variables and differences between makes and models, not just the fingerboard radius.

I have visited my local guitar store a few times recently to try some basses, hoping to get an idea for radius etc, but the ‘factory’ setup that they come with has often been awful (not my preferred gauge, action too high), so I can never quite tell what I like for sure.

5 hours ago, Jecklin said:

You can get strings a fair bit thinner in guage than what you are using now.

For a long time I used elites stainless steels in 95-35 and loved them. Before that I played some trace Elliot signature sets 30-90 which the bass centre were flogging off at 8quid a set! (Late 90's)

I had two sets and they died pretty quickly so moved to the Elites.

I know you like the feel and sound of your current strings, but thin guage strings are a great way to reduce tension so keep your eyes peeled for special offers.

I tried 35-90 a few years ago, after finding 45-100 too thick, but they were too floppy to articulate with my right hand. 40-95 seems like the most appropriate compromise between the two gauges, for me anyways.

[Greg.Bassman]

4 hours ago, Acebassmusic said:

Does this mean that your main issue is with your left hand only? Are you having to press heavily on the strings to fret cleanly? What is the measurement from the top of fret 1 to the bottom of each of your strings? What bass are you playing?

I basically just want my strings low to the point where I barely have to strike them to make them sound. Here is a couple of videos I found from my favourite players. I’m amazed by how low their actions appears here; in some of the close-ups, it’s like there is almost NO distance between the strings and fingerboard at all! lol. How do I get my bass setup like this?

EDIT: I’m currently playing a Yamaha bb1024.

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by Greg.Bassman

[dannybuoy]

I wouldn't focus on radius at all, that second video looks like a 70s Jazz and they had a 7.25" radius!

From my own experience a curvy board is only a problem when it is also wide and the board edges are sharp. I didn't get on with the Classic 50s Precision neck for this reason as I found the board on the G side cutting into my finger when reaching for the low F note, but found the same radius on a slim necked Musicman Caprice to be uber comfortable. 

[Grangur]

Ok, so what you're wanting is a low action set-up for slapping.

Radius makes no difference to being able to get a low action. Any good bass can be set up with a low action and light gauge strings will make it fine for slap. The problem that then happens, sometimes is fret-rattle. This happens when the frets aren't levelled and crowned properly.

It sounds like you need your frets levelled and a good set up. This work will cost about £100 at a decent luthier.

[ikay]

3 hours ago, Grangur said:

Radius makes no difference to being able to get a low action.

Radius only makes no difference to string action IF the strings all run parallel and have the same strings spacing at nut and bridge. But in most cases string spacing is wider at the bridge and the strings (particularly the outer strings) then run at a slight angle across the curvature of the fingerboard. The tighter the fingerboard radius, the more pronounced this will be, and this affects how low you can get the action. Conversely the larger the fingerboard radius, the less pronounced this will be and you can achieve a lower action. The difference between the string spacing at nut and bridge is also a determining factor (the more 'splayed' the strings, the more pronounced the hump).

Here are some pics to illustrate:

      

Pic 1 - Strings running perfectly parallel with the fingerboard can take a uniformly low action

Pic 2 - Strings running at a slight angle have to effectively cross a 'hump' in the fingerboard which requires a higher action to clear

Pic 3 - Strings running at any angle across a completely flat board can take a uniformly low action

This assumes a fingerboard with a fixed radius (ie, a cylinder with the same radius at either end) which is generally the case.

One way to eliminate the 'hump' issue is to have a fingerboard with a compound radius. This follows the curvature of a cone (rather than a cylinder) with a smaller radius as one end and larger radius at the other:

This allows a uniformly low action with typically 'splayed' string geometry.

[Hellzero]

If you want your bass feel like wool, buy a sheep one. 

Stop kidding, as you said you are not a bass tech, go to a real luthier and get him your bass set up to your taste. He will certainly make a new nut, adjust the relief of your neck, dress the frets and maybe he could also slightly reshape the radius to have it compounded.

Also, to lower the tension, you have to adjust the neck tilting to have the flattest possible angle between the top of your bride saddles and the attachment of your strings (the ball end at the bridge).

Edited March 18, 2018 by Hellzero
Flattest is better than flatter.

[Manton Customs]

4 hours ago, ikay said:

Radius only makes no difference to string action IF the strings all run parallel and have the same strings spacing at nut and bridge. But in most cases string spacing is wider at the bridge and the strings (particularly the outer strings) then run at a slight angle across the curvature of the fingerboard. The tighter the fingerboard radius, the more pronounced this will be, and this affects how low you can get the action. Conversely the larger the fingerboard radius, the less pronounced this will be and you can achieve a lower action. The difference between the string spacing at nut and bridge is also a determining factor (the more 'splayed' the strings, the more pronounced the hump).

Here are some pics to illustrate:

      

Pic 1 - Strings running perfectly parallel with the fingerboard can take a uniformly low action

Pic 2 - Strings running at a slight angle have to effectively cross a 'hump' in the fingerboard which requires a higher action to clear

Pic 3 - Strings running at any angle across a completely flat board can take a uniformly low action

This assumes a fingerboard with a fixed radius (ie, a cylinder with the same radius at either end) which is generally the case.

One way to eliminate the 'hump' issue is to have a fingerboard with a compound radius. This follows the curvature of a cone (rather than a cylinder) with a smaller radius as one end and larger radius at the other:

This allows a uniformly low action with typically 'splayed' string geometry.

While all that is very accurate, it really only applies to instruments which have not had proper fretwork done. Which is actually a lot of mass produced instruments, typically the frets are not levelled on these at the factory - just installed using a method which is very consistent to ensure they are level. However it will produce that slight hump you describe.

This doesn't happen when the frets are levelled by any good luthier as they will always level the frets along the string paths. Which removes this (very slight) hump.

[ikay]

Aha, +1 to the benefits of good luthiery vs mass production!

[Westenra]

If you really want low tension strings I'd suggest TI jazz flats, I've got them on my BB1024x and they are ridiculously easy to play. So much so that I had to raise the action because I play with a medium style attack.

[4000]

I've never heard the phrase "play like wool" before. Butter yes, but not wool!

The obvious answer, since you don't know what you're doing, is to take it to a luthier who does. Job done. If you ask, they may even explain what they'll be doing.

Other than that, the first thing I would say is to get your neck relief right. I have the neck as straight as possible. Once your neck relief is right, everything else should follow.

 

 

 

[paul_5]

Even lower tension would be tape wound strings, depends on the tone you want though.

[4000]

Things is, low tension, light gauge strings won't help much if you've got loads of neck relief (although they will potentially help with any issues).

[Hellzero]

1 hour ago, Westenra said:

If you really want low tension strings I'd suggest TI jazz flats, I've got them on my BB1024x and they are ridiculously easy to play. So much so that I had to raise the action because I play with a medium style attack.

Did you ever try slapping with flats ? The OP wants to slap à la Mark King, so flatwounds are certainly the worst choice... Please read from the beginning before answering. 

[4000]

To be fair, I don't think the OP actually says that anywhere - I think Grangur first suggested that - and the videos don't show for me at work and so may not show for others either.

[Pasco Jacorius]

If the neck curve is good and the action has not the strings glued to the fretboard then it's all in the fret work. You should be able to get a decent 1.5mm to 2mm action without fret buzz.

[Grangur]

On 18/03/2018 at 05:46, Greg.Bassman said:

I basically just want my strings low to the point where I barely have to strike them to make them sound. Here is a couple of videos I found from my favourite players. I’m amazed by how low their actions appears here; in some of the close-ups, it’s like there is almost NO distance between the strings and fingerboard at all! lol. How do I get my bass setup like this?

EDIT: I’m currently playing a Yamaha bb1024.

 

 

59 minutes ago, 4000 said:

To be fair, I don't think the OP actually says that anywhere - I think Grangur first suggested that - and the videos don't show for me at work and so may not show for others either.

The sample videos are:

1 - Mark King Bass Solo

2 - Slap bass demo

3 - Sly & Family Stone from BBC "The Story of Funk".  This vid features Larry Graham.

Aside of this I'm interested in your recommendation of TI Flats. I like flats. I've been playing Chromes, but might well try the TI Flats. Many thanks.

[Ghost_Bass]

On 17/03/2018 at 21:44, Greg.Bassman said:

Hi all. Hope you’re well. As a (very) light player, I require as little fight from my bass as I can in order to fret notes comfortably. So I need a low tension setup that is going to promote this. I am trying to discover the right combination of string gauge, tension, material and height etc that is going to provide me with such. Not being the most tech-savvy however, I am often at a loss when understanding which factors determine the playability (feel) of a bass, and what steps I can take to get my bass feeling like wool. This is obviously something that will take some experimentation and spending many hours with my instrument, but I wondered if you had any suggestions to get me started please?

EDIT: One change that I have already made is in my choice of string. After dwindling down my options, I have arrived at DR sunbeam 40-95 bass strings. Lighter gauge = less tension. Also, the round core and nickel wrap is what gives them their ‘softness of feel' that the range has become renowned for. I have also being researching action and radius choice in conjunction with this. I’ve read that it is easier to achieve an (ultra low) action on flatter radiuses; many ‘flat(ter) converts' noting the increased comfort and dexterity, presumably because of the low action and string-string height evenness. If so, what radius inch (ie 12”, 16” etc) would you suggest for someone (like myself) who is looking to employ multiple techniques in their playing?

I think you're looking at this the wrong way, IMO. If you want minimal effort to play the bass with a light touch i would go for higher tension strings with the lowest action possible. With higher tension strings you get a bit less fretbuzz as they don't shake so much but with puch in the sound and the lower action compensates so you don't have to press it too much. Another important thing is to set the amp's gain as high as possible as it will allow you to have headroom with a lighter touch.

 

Radious and relief don't mather to this, i use a flat radious fretboard with zero relief in one bass and get the same result as another with radious and relief.

[4000]

4 hours ago, Grangur said:

 

The sample videos are:

1 - Mark King Bass Solo

2 - Slap bass demo

3 - Sly & Family Stone from BBC "The Story of Funk".  This vid features Larry Graham.

Aside of this I'm interested in your recommendation of TI Flats. I like flats. I've been playing Chromes, but might well try the TI Flats. Many thanks.

Did I recommend flats? I think it was someone prior to me. TIs are a good choice though, none better if you want low tension. They are extremely low tension. 

[4000]

46 minutes ago, Ghost_Bass said:

I think you're looking at this the wrong way, IMO. If you want minimal effort to play the bass with a light touch i would go for higher tension strings with the lowest action possible. With higher tension strings you get a bit less fretbuzz as they don't shake so much but with puch in the sound and the lower action compensates so you don't have to press it too much. Another important thing is to set the amp's gain as high as possible as it will allow you to have headroom with a lighter touch.

 

Radious and relief don't mather to this, i use a flat radious fretboard with zero relief in one bass and get the same result as another with radious and relief.

Yes, you should theoretically be able to get lower action with higher gauge/tension strings. Although I've found through experience that slap and higher gauge strings don't work for me personally, no matter what the action. Not that I slap anymore anyway. 

The best thing the OP could do is take his bass to a good tech, because if there are any issues with his neck or frets he'll likely never get where he wants. 

[Ghost_Bass]

2 minutes ago, 4000 said:

Yes, you should theoretically be able to get lower action with higher gauge/tension strings. Although I've found through experience that slap and higher gauge strings don't work for me personally, no matter what the action. Not that I slap anymore anyway. 

The best thing the OP could do is take his bass to a good tech, because if there are any issues with his neck or frets he'll likely never get where he wants. 

 One simply cannot play the bass with a light touch and slappeth the living crap out of it! 

[Greg.Bassman]

Hi all. Forgive my absence. Thank you for all your suggestions! I shall try and clear a few things up here

[Greg.Bassman]

On 18/03/2018 at 06:33, Grangur said:

... Ok, so what you're wanting is a low action set-up for slapping...

 

8 hours ago, Hellzero said:

...The OP wants to slap à la Mark King...

 

7 hours ago, 4000 said:

...To be fair, I don't think the OP actually says that anywhere - I think Grangur first suggested that...

 

I play fingerstyle, slap and (alittle) tap. Incidentally, the videos that I posted feature a lot of slap, but thats not why I posted, I was trying to point out their actions. I should have been a little more clear, sorry lads  Thank you all!

Edited March 19, 2018 by Greg.Bassman