How to get my bass feeling like wool? Spec/setup suggestions please.

[Greg.Bassman]

9 hours ago, Westenra said:

If you really want low tension strings I'd suggest TI jazz flats, I've got them on my BB1024x and they are ridiculously easy to play. So much so that I had to raise the action because I play with a medium style attack.

I briefly looked into TI jazz flats before, but concluded that the flats wouldn’t be appropriate for slap and the gauge would be too floppy, for me anyways (IMHO). As I mentioned to Jecklin previously, I have experience using thinner gauges but found them too floppy to articulate with my right hand. But thanks for the suggestion, much appreciated!

[Greg.Bassman]

8 hours ago, 4000 said:

...I've never heard the phrase "play like wool" before. Butter yes, but not wool!...

Lol, I know, please take my words with a pinch of salt. ‘Butter/rubber bands/wool strings’… take your pick, what I'm trying to describe is all things of a 'low tension/soft/slinky' nature  Cheers 4000!

Edited March 19, 2018 by Greg.Bassman

[Grangur]

Well @Greg.Bassman it seems we're getting closer. 

So it's fingers, slap and tapping. Normal gauge round-wound strings and low action. 

Don't know where you're located, but maybe a fellow BCer can take a look at your bass and see if they can set it for a low action for you? There's a thread in the Repairs section with a register of BCers happy to do that.

[Greg.Bassman]

1 hour ago, Grangur said:

Well @Greg.Bassman it seems we're getting closer. 

So it's fingers, slap and tapping. Normal gauge round-wound strings and low action. 

Don't know where you're located, but maybe a fellow BCer can take a look at your bass and see if they can set it for a low action for you? There's a thread in the Repairs section with a register of BCers happy to do that.

Sounds about right! aha. I’m located in Birmingham, UK. Thanks for the suggestion. Anybody you're happy to recommend would be greatly appreciated 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Greg.Bassman

[Greg.Bassman]

On 18/03/2018 at 06:33, Grangur said:

It sounds like you need your frets levelled and a good set up. This work will cost about £100 at a decent luthier.

 

On 18/03/2018 at 11:22, Hellzero said:

Stop kidding, as you said you are not a bass tech, go to a real luthier and get him your bass set up to your taste. He will certainly make a new nut, adjust the relief of your neck, dress the frets and maybe he could also slightly reshape the radius to have it compounded.

 

On 18/03/2018 at 15:47, Manton Customs said:

This doesn't happen when the frets are levelled by any good luthier as they will always level the frets along the string paths.

 

On 18/03/2018 at 17:08, ikay said:

Aha, +1 to the benefits of good luthiery vs mass production!

 

16 hours ago, 4000 said:

The obvious answer, since you don't know what you're doing, is to take it to a luthier who does.

How will a ‘good’ luthier typically do this? Is there a correct way that should be followed? ‘Hellzero’, you’ve already mentioned about a new nut, relief adjustment and fretdress… is there anything else? I only ask because I have a local luthier, but I’m having my doubts about him. I took my bass into him a few months ago for a ‘setup’, but was disappointed by the result. He set it with what he said was a ‘medium-low’ action (not near what I wanted, like in the videos) and insisted that it could not be taken any lower due to the build of the instrument. Not knowing a thing about bass setup, I never questioned him about it and just accepted his word for it (despite my better judgement). So either I didn't make myself clear enough in the first place or he just doesn’t know what he’s doing. I just thought that if I know more, then I can judge the extent of the work a little better if I use him again. If Anthony Vitti (2nd video) can do it on a vintage jazz with a 7.25 radius and single piece neck, then it must be possible on a modern Yamaha with 10” radius and 5-piece neck, right?

Edited March 20, 2018 by Greg.Bassman

[Hellzero]

Yes, there is also the neck tilting, precise bridge adjustment, tightening of all screws, electronics cleaning and the always forgotten strings mounting which is so important. For what you want, the differential fret dressing (called B BOW by Le Fay) is the best solution, but very few luthiers know what it is and how to do it. And thanks to this, the compound radius becomes redundant.

There you'll find some explanations about that differential dressing that should be done under simulated fret tension to allow the lowest possible action : http://www.lefay.de/english/typ_tech.html

[Hellzero]

Read and watch the Fodera setup process explained here, you'll learn a lot to understand the physics of your bass and the way to set it up by yourself : http://www.fodera.com/how-to-set-up-your-fodera/

[Grangur]

10 hours ago, Greg.Bassman said:

How will a ‘good’ luthier typically do this? Is there a correct way that should be followed? ‘Hellzero’, you’ve already mentioned about a new nut, relief adjustment and fretdress… is there anything else? I only ask because I have a local luthier, but I’m having my doubts about him. I took my bass into him a few months ago for a ‘setup’, but was disappointed by the result. He set it with what he said was a ‘medium-low’ action (not near what I wanted, like in the videos) and insisted that it could not be taken any lower due to the build of the instrument. Not knowing a thing about bass setup, I never questioned him about it and just accepted his word for it (despite my better judgement). So either I didn't make myself clear enough in the first place or he just doesn’t know what he’s doing. I just thought that if I know more, then I can judge the extent of the work a little better if I use him again. If Anthony Vitti (2nd video) can do it on a vintage jazz with a 7.25 radius and single piece neck, then it must be possible on a modern Yamaha with 10” radius and 5-piece neck, right?

There may be a few reasons why your luthier can't get the action any lower. The fact he hasn't told you what his reason is on your bass might indicate he's either:

1 - Not interested in working on your bass.
2 - Not much good at communicating.
3 - Lacks skills.

Problems that can limit how low the action can go can include:

1 - The nut being high - solution: file the slots.
2 - The bridge won't adjust low enough - solution - shim the neck.
3 - Lowering the action further causes fret rattle. This can be because the tops of the frets are uneven (as discussed earlier in this thread) - solution  level the frets.
4 - Truss-rod problems meaning the relief can't be set low enough.  Solution -  work to address this issue, which may mean major work.

We can't really say a lot more about this without seeing the bass. A Yamaha bass should be pretty well made, for a mass-produced production line item made by people who've been trained to do the job to meet a need of the factory to work to a defined specification level. The problem with any bass made in these conditions is nobody who made your bass is actually a luthier. Wood is wood. Yamaha may buy good wood but wood moves in the process of drying out and aging and a visit to a good luthier may be needed from time to time. This is especially true if the bass you picked up is a "Friday night" item from the production line.

As I said in an earlier post; taking it to an experienced Basschatter, who knows basses might be a good start.

Here's the thread with a list:  

 

[Hellzero]

I think we've done the job. Now it's up to you Greg.

Yamaha is a step further than other makers as they own their own forests where the right timbers are growing avoiding buying them from suspicious sellers. A very clever approach.

[4000]

It may actually be that your bass doesn't need a new nut, fret dress or anything else relatively major, but until someone who knows what they're doing gets to look at it you'll never know. If you're in Birmingham, how about John Diggins of Jaydee? 

Also, be aware that luthiers have their own setup preferences like anyone. Some, including some very well known names, don't like or recommend very low action. Others will happily go as low as you like.  

[mcnach]

17 hours ago, Greg.Bassman said:

 

 

 

 

How will a ‘good’ luthier typically do this? Is there a correct way that should be followed? ‘Hellzero’, you’ve already mentioned about a new nut, relief adjustment and fretdress… is there anything else? I only ask because I have a local luthier, but I’m having my doubts about him. I took my bass into him a few months ago for a ‘setup’, but was disappointed by the result. He set it with what he said was a ‘medium-low’ action (not near what I wanted, like in the videos) and insisted that it could not be taken any lower due to the build of the instrument. Not knowing a thing about bass setup, I never questioned him about it and just accepted his word for it (despite my better judgement). So either I didn't make myself clear enough in the first place or he just doesn’t know what he’s doing. I just thought that if I know more, then I can judge the extent of the work a little better if I use him again. If Anthony Vitti (2nd video) can do it on a vintage jazz with a 7.25 radius and single piece neck, then it must be possible on a modern Yamaha with 10” radius and 5-piece neck, right?

 

He doesn't seem to care to set it the way YOU want it, or maybe he doesn't know how to. Unfortunately the name 'luthier' is tossed around without regard for its real meaning and covers people who really know their stuff and build superb instruments (acoustic or otherwise) and people who barely know how to use a screwdriver.

Definitely find someone else. And if someone says what you want is not achievable, ask them why. Just saying "due to build quality" or something like that is not enough. If it's a bolt-on instrument and the neck is not completely screwed up (very rare even for the cheapest instruments), it would be very strange if it could not be set up to have low action across the fretboard.

[mcnach]

3 hours ago, 4000 said:

 

Also, be aware that luthiers have their own setup preferences like anyone. Some, including some very well known names, don't like or recommend very low action. Others will happily go as low as you like.  

 

Indeed. But they work for YOU. So you have to make sure they know what YOU want, and that they do what's needed. If they are reluctant or refuse... move along and find someone else. 

[Greg.Bassman]

7 hours ago, Hellzero said:

I think we've done the job. Now it's up to you Greg.

And a huge help you have all been too, thank you guys! Much appreciated!

[4000]

1 hour ago, mcnach said:

 

Indeed. But they work for YOU. So you have to make sure they know what YOU want, and that they do what's needed. If they are reluctant or refuse... move along and find someone else. 

That was my point, that some of them won't, or will but only grudgingly. As the OP doesn't seem that experienced he needs to be aware that all luthiers might not be the same. Back in the day I remember Peter Cook (not the Dudley Moore one) would only set my old P bass up how he saw fit with the strings he liked (I forget what they were but I hated them). At the time I knew no better and he was a pretty big name back then. I've had similar experiences with some luthiers since, whilst there are others who really try and make it work for you (like Martin Petersen at the Gallery). 

Edited March 20, 2018 by 4000