Using your amp as a DI and pre amp

[la bam]

Hi all,

gig wise, i usually use my bass straight into my amp head and cab and di from the amp head into the pa. nice and simple.

however, weve got a lot of upcoming shared equipment / stage change over gigs etc and im just trying to confirm if i can use my amp head as a 'thru' to their amp head and cab, so i can get my sound both to the pa and the hired in bass rig?

im thinking:

bass - my amp head (no speaker) - di to pa

bass - my amp head (no speaker) - 'send' output - input on their bass head - cab.

is it ok to use the 'send' out of my amp to the 'input' (not 'recieve') on the front of their bass head via a normal guitar cable?

im pretty sure they wont want me plugging into their amp return chains (and they might not even have one) etc, so im looking for a way of plugging straight into the input on their bass head.

 

Theres probably more simple solutions - but using pedals is another expense, and kit to carry around, and swapping amp heads isnt really an option as theirs will be matched for the size of the stage etc.

im using a class d markbass evo 1. thats why i want to use as a di as it has my sound in one small lightweight package (amp modeller and compressor all built in).

 

I do have a spare ashdown amp, so if people think this is ok to do i can try it, but just need some reassurance before i try it.

[knicknack]

Surely the easier option is just to whack the speaker cable from their amp to yours? Can't be more hassle than the other options

The Evo is a killer amp, can see why you'd want it's DI!

Edited March 19, 2018 by knicknack

[la bam]

That was my first thought, but we have a few fairly large out door gigs coming up, where i imagine theyll have at minimum an 8x10 etc and i wouldnt know if my amp could give enough out at stage level. So im trusting them to ensure the monitoring is adequate. As theyre festivals we wouldnt even have more than a 10 minite sound check id imagine.

Effectively im trying to use my amp head as a di box.

Edited March 19, 2018 by la bam

[Happy Jack]

Yup, you'll have no problem taking an XLR from your DI Out socket to the board, whilst also - if you choose - driving your normal bass rig.

You should also have a Pre/Post switch on the DI Out which determines whether what goes to the board is affected by your settings on the amp.

 

[la bam]

Thanks, thats what id usually do when using my set up, but this scenario is slightly different.

In this case im wondering if my amp head can be used before or in line with the venues head and cab.

Id ask markbass, but ive never once had a reply off them to any of my questions.

[xroads]

If you plug your bass into your amp and the effects send into the front end of another amp, you might create a ground loop.

Apart from this, you cascade 2 eq sections, which can or cannot work.

Just a question: do you use your DI out post- or pre-EQ?

If pre-EQ, I don't see why you can't use just a good DI between bass or pedal board and amp, and send this signal to the PA.

It should give the same results as your current setup.

[la bam]

I guess what im wondering is if i used say, a sansamp so it went:

Bass - sansamp - pa

Bass - sansamp - venue head - venue cab

Then what is the difference between a sansamp or di pedal and my head?

A sansamp or any di pedal would use di to the pa and thru jack to the venues head and speaker exactly like im trying to do with my head.

 

[Ghost_Bass]

But your amp head won't do a "through" output for the other amp head. If you use the fx send output you're already sending line level signal (equalized). the only way for it to work is to have an fx loop in the stage amp and feed your signal to the fx return. That way it will all work fine and the stage amp will only be used as a power amp for you rpream signal.

 

If you want to use your own DI to PA and plug in the hired amp input you'll need a splitter cable:

.                              -> your amp input -> DI to mixer
bass -> spliter {

.                              -> hired amp input -> cab

[LewisK1975]

As far as I can see, the main issue with what you want to do is shown below - Looking at the block diagram -  The Send/Returns on the Evo 1 are before the preamp in the block diagram.  So anything you do send to another amp won't be affected by the evo 1's EQ / DSP etc.

[jrixn1]

The Markbass has two XLR line outs.  One is already going to the PA - but you can commandeer the other one.

The issue is that that output signal is balanced line level - but the input on the venue's amp is unbalanced instrument level.  In this case, you need the opposite of a DI box - which is a re-amp box.  E.g. Palmer Daccapo, Radial ProRMP, ART RDB.
 

[casapete]

3 hours ago, la bam said:

I guess what im wondering is if i used say, a sansamp so it went:

Bass - sansamp - pa

Bass - sansamp - venue head - venue cab

That's how I use mine - dead easy, no bother.

I know you said you didn't want to use another pedal, but a cheap simple solution would be this -

https://www.rimmersmusic.co.uk/behringer-bdi21v-tone-bass-modelling-preamp-p33946/s34377?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=behringer-bdi21v-tone-bass-modelling-preamp-zb251&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItOCSieT42QIV77DtCh3v4gzhEAQYBCABEgJjhfD_BwE

Cheap as chips, and handy as a spare DI box in the future.

[stingrayPete1977]

I'd use the supplied rig as is

[lojo]

I'm not sure if this is what you want by I use a multi amp and have done these before ...

 

DI from my amp (xlr to 1/4" jack) into another amp head , works perfectly

Line out from my amp (1/4" to 1/4") into another head , works perfectly 

 

This allows me to use the settings in my head (detune , fretless , synth sounds on so on) for our set without derigging the venue or main head (at gig or in some rehearsal rooms) 

Edited March 20, 2018 by lojo

[la bam]

Thanks for all your help so far.

Lewisk - thanks for thst. Youre right, it does look like the send are pre aĺl the effects and colouring. So i wouldnt gain anything.

Jrixn - thats kind of the goal im after - in effect a basic 1/4 jack line out.

1 hour ago, lojo said:

I'm not sure if this is what you want by I use a multi amp and have done these before ...

 

DI from my amp (xlr to 1/4" jack) into another amp head , works perfectly

Line out from my amp (1/4" to 1/4") into another head , works perfectly 

 

This allows me to use the settings in my head (detune , fretless , synth sounds on so on) for our set without derigging the venue or main head (at gig or in some rehearsal rooms) 

This would be great, but just 2 questions:

1. What are you using to go from xlr to jack? (ie a special cable or adaptor).

2. When you say line out, which is that on the amp?

3. And is 'into another amp head' via the main input or send/return etc?

Edited March 20, 2018 by la bam

[lojo]

Yes via main input just like plugging directly in from instrument 

I think the Xlr to Jack lead is off the shelf 

My amp has line out , but yours may not

 

[la bam]

That one line out 1/4 jack would solve everything, but i just have a 'send'.

[lojo]

What exactly does your amp give you that the supplied rig will not ?

I only do this for one band because of effects that I have programmed into my amp , if I just wanted a straight forward bass sound I'd use the amp provided at your event 

Sorry I can't answer the question re Send on your amp , someone else might be able to 

[la bam]

On my evo i have the amp modeller (Sunn) sorted and the right compression setting all pre programmed in, and its 2 channel so i can flick between basses seemlessly for the detuned songs.it also has the built in tuner and great di.

The amps now nearly weigh as much as the pre amp pedals as theyre so light, so id be more then happy carrying the amp around as a 1 box solution, rather than what id have to replace it with - tuner - a/b box - preamp pedal - compressor.

[knicknack]

Surely the Evo is powerful enough to just use into their cabs? Certainly not quiet! 

[jrixn1]

You can connect your XLR line out directly to the venue's instrument input using an XLR to mono jack cable.  It must be mono (unbalanced) not stereo (balanced).

For example: https://www.designacable.com/musician-leads/instrument-leads/designacable-unbalanced-sommer-neutrik-6-35mm-jack-to-female-xlr.html

Or contact this guy explaning what you are doing: http://bassic-bits.co.uk/

The one possible issue with the direct cable approach is that the level of the signal which the Markbass is sending is too high ("line level").  The venue amp is expecting a lower level of signal ("instrument level").

I believe the "most correct" way to address this is to use re-amp box like previously recommended.

But you can also try just turning the input gain down a lot on the venue amp - that might work fine.
 

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[lojo]

Plus 1 to the above post , if your using an evo one that's 500w @ 4ohms yes ?

If so then even if the on stage can only takes 8 ohm from it it will be loud enough for a personal monitor and the Di will do the rest 

I plugged my markbass into an Ampeg 810 the other weekend and it was awesome (and only the top 410)

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by lojo

[EBS_freak]

You do realise, that the soundguy, if doing his/her job properly, will EQ and compress your tone regardless of what is coming out of the head - making the whole exercise a bit pointless? If you are using other backline, except that you aren't going to get your sound and concentrate on getting on with the gig and trust that the soundguy is gonna make your tone rock out front.

Yes, I know you are going to say, "I want my own tone on stage" - we all do... but the professional thing is just get on with it with minimal faff. No sound guy likes a faffer!

[dannybuoy]

2 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

You do realise, that the soundguy, if doing his/her job properly, will EQ and compress your tone regardless of what is coming out of the head - making the whole exercise a bit pointless? If you are using other backline, except that you aren't going to get your sound and concentrate on getting on with the gig and trust that the soundguy is gonna make your tone rock out front.

Yes, I know you are going to say, "I want my own tone on stage" - we all do... but the professional thing is just get on with it with minimal faff. No sound guy likes a faffer!

As ever, it depends on many factors. E.g. if you prefer a clean uncoloured sound and have a good sound engineer then by all means send them an unprocessed pre-EQ DI and let them get on with it.

If your amp has some dirt/growl/colour/whatever that's vital to your sound then you're going to want to send that coloured tone to the PA also. For example I have a Darkglass and Tech21 VT heads - like the OP's EVO1, the whole point of using them is for their colouration so I would no way want to just have a clean DI going to the desk unless it was also being mixed with a mic or 2nd DI.

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by dannybuoy

[lojo]

4 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

but the professional thing is just get on with it with minimal faff. No sound guy likes a faffer!

Not sure there's any faff for the sound guy , just at the cab positioning point , the sound guy is left with a single DI feed whatever the OP decides to do 

Funny thing here is if we see the OPs amp as a pedal board , with a feed coming out into the onstage amp then there's no discussion , only as to how he outputs from the amp / board . It can be viewed as board because he's not using powered output effectively making the amp part of his amp redundant and just using it for preamp / effects 

Edited March 20, 2018 by lojo