Top Of The Pops

[lowregisterhead]

14 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

And don't forget Pan's People. 

Now you're talking. Many years ago, doing one of many temporary jobs whilst attempting to achieve musical fame and fortune (?) I was making a delivery to a beautiful house just off Kensington High Street in London. It was all white, satin chrome and etched glass, so the owners obviously had a bob or two, I thought.

I rang the bell, the door opened, and lo and and behold, I was face to face with my object of adoration as a teenager... Cherry Gillespie! I was thunderstruck. I opened my mouth, and at first nothing came out, followed closely by gibberish. She smiled kindly, signed for the package, and just then her husband (who I later discovered is record company mogul Rob Dickens) passed me going into the house, and gave me a withering look as if to say "Oh, god, not another one".

I felt ridiculous, but boy, was it worth it.

[lowregisterhead]

4 hours ago, xgsjx said:

But then I get to hear of musicians that I never would have.  I do think that musicians should get paid more, but then it's musicians who are to blame for that.
My guitarist keeps commenting about getting signed & raking in the dough, but there's 3 main stopping points.  1- We play 60s & 70s inspired rock music (I suggested the band name be "Grandad's Grooves"), 2- We're all old (apart from the drummer, he's 24 but looks like 42) & 3- the singist isn't even mediocre.  I can't see us getting out the jamming room, let alone gigging.  

My point being that musicians can make money if they're creative, make music that people want to listen to & are actually good.  They do need to put in a lot of effort & this could even require moving to somewhere where they can get heard (AKA not Perth), but the recorded music is the advertising to get the punters to spend money on you.

 

3 hours ago, lowregisterhead said:

I'm sitting here open-mouthed in disbelief at what I've just read. If you made that statement to deliberately be controversial and get a reaction, well OK, you got me.

If you genuinely believe this, I'm afraid I don't have the time or the patience to get into precisely why what you posted is so wrong on so many levels, but I'm sure someone else will. Musicians are to blame? Really??

 

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

I think you should take the time and patience to point out why xgsjx is wrong, because I think he's pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Sorry, I'm not going to bite. It's all been said elsewhere, and a TOTP thread isn't really the right place for it. I will say this - it's still a rigged game, and the digital age has only made the odds of exposure and/or success even longer. Everything changes over time, and I fully accept that. The internet has knocked the music business as it was into a cocked hat, and streaming is the way forward for now. That doesn't make it any kinder a mistress than the system that went before it, however. The current state of smoke, mirrors and general confusion (and let's be clear, the same people and huge corporations are still behind it) is the labour pains of what's yet to come, and nobody knows how it will turn out. One thing is certain though - whatever is born out of this will be just as ugly a brat as its older siblings. So please, don't blame the musicians.

[Leonard Smalls]

4 hours ago, FinnDave said:

I worked in the basement (VT ops),

Funnily enough, I was in film despatch in the 80s, from about 87-89... Moved into sound transfer after that.

And TOTP night was usually quite entertaining; I was at Borehamwood for the last few years of it when it moved there. I remember being mobbed by a group of young girls on the way out on my mosickle; they made me lift my tinted visor top check I wasn't anybody famous, then they went onto the next victim.

Once, Bon Jovi came to play, and insisted on sole use of the BBC canteen and bar over lunch time. 500 staff had to make their way to the very few eateries on the high street - it was chaos. But then I always though Jon BJ was a prize donkey!

 

[Burns-bass]

5 hours ago, bazzbass said:

and thus no musician makes money from selling their music anymore, well done sir! you are one of the reasons music is a dying industry. Merch and ticket  sales are the only source of income available to musicians.

WELL DONE 

Bit of a histrionic response there, but it is the internet so fair enough. 

I'll also counter that the majority of the music I listen to I already own in another format (I'm old enough to have bought cassettes, CDs and MP3s). How many more times does Paul McCartney need me to pay him £10 for Rubber Soul?

But I take your point. I'd be happy to pay more for access to music through streaming services, and am sure I'll be asked too in the future. I also am completely aware that I'm a licensee of the content not an owner but I'm happy with that. Having been encumbered by a huge music collection in the past, I'm happier with the ability to enjoy the music without owning the artefact but would welcome a fairer split of the profits between content provider and platform.

[ead]

1 hour ago, pfretrock said:

You really do need OGWT

Yes indeed.  The very best music show ever.  Sorry, typo there.  I believe in common parlance that should read evaaaarrrrrrrhhh.

[BigRedX]

1 minute ago, ead said:

Yes indeed.  The very best music show ever.  Sorry, typo there.  I believe in common parlance that should read evaaaarrrrrrrhhh.

I don't know. The ratio of what I liked to what I didn't on OGWT, wasn't significantly higher than TotP.

[ead]

Probabaly a personal thing for me BigRedX as I was never that into pop.  First LP I bought was Close to the Edge and then spiraled into deepest prog.

[Barking Spiders]

5 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

Bit of a histrionic response there, but it is the internet so fair enough. 

I'll also counter that the majority of the music I listen to I already own in another format (I'm old enough to have bought cassettes, CDs and MP3s). How many more times does Paul McCartney need me to pay him £10 for Rubber Soul?

But I take your point. I'd be happy to pay more for access to music through streaming services, and am sure I'll be asked too in the future. I also am completely aware that I'm a licensee of the content not an owner but I'm happy with that. Having been encumbered by a huge music collection in the past, I'm happier with the ability to enjoy the music without owning the artefact but would welcome a fairer split of the profits between content provider and platform.

I don't stream myself and prefer CDs but i totally get those who aren't big music fans and don't feel the need to own hard copies. I don't buy into Spotify etc are killing music claims. Most people are probably casual listeners and in them dark olden days would've made do with the radio and home taping anyway. People who liked to buy hard copy then probably still do, if there's owt of interest. I hardly buy any new music these days, not because of streaming but because most music being made these days is utter pants..

[FinnDave]

25 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Funnily enough, I was in film despatch in the 80s, from about 87-89... Moved into sound transfer after that.

Our paths may well have crossed, I was in TV News in 87, then went on a lengthy attachment to the Clive James Unit over in Kensington House in 1988-91 (or 2, not sure now). Small world!

[PaulWarning]

depends what you were into really, but the Old Grey Whistle Test was too prog rock for me when whispering Bob was in charge, once he went it improved no end, for me anyway, but it did have one major advantage over TOTP's in that the acts actually had to play live, which I always prefer to miming (which is also the problem with music video's), if I was being really controversial I'd say Jools Holland isn't a million miles away from the OGWT 

[ead]

5 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

depends what you were into really, but the Old Grey Whistle Test was too prog rock for me when whispering Bob was in charge, once he went it improved no end, for me anyway, but it did have one major advantage over TOTP's in that the acts actually had to play live, which I always prefer to miming (which is also the problem with music video's), if I was being really controversial I'd say Jools Holland isn't a million miles away from the OGWT 

I agree, I know he gets a lot of stick on here but I enjoy the shows and get to see bands I wouldn't normally stumble across and often as not buy CDs on the back of it.

[casapete]

7 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

but it did have one major advantage over TOTP's in that the acts actually had to play live

Not quite true - early OGWT were often mimed, with just a live lead vocal. 

Also TOTP in it's later years did feature live performances too. 

[Linus27]

15 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

And don't forget Pan's People. 

We did an amazing gig back in January in this beautiful village hall and a member of Pans People was there. Everyone was on the dance floor dancing and our guitarist and singer went down and danced with her. No idea which one she was (I'm far too young) but I had heard of them.

[Japhet]

Nostalgic thread. The thing back then was that if you didn't catch something first hand the chance was gone. No video recorders, no catch up TV, no Youtube. It's why everybody watched stuff (OGWT in my case) and then talked about it the next day. There was no possibility to catch it later. I must have sat through hours and hours of utter dross to pick out the odd gem, which, once seen would vanish for ever (that is until Youtube enabled it to all be dug up again).

[Roger2611]

25 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

 I hardly buy any new music these days, not because of streaming but because most music being made these days is utter pants..

I think that depends on where you look, I haven't knowingly brought or downloaded a "chart" song for many years but I have brought many songs from newer bands via hearing them on BBC radio 6 music, especially Ratcliffe and Marconi and Steve Lamaq in the afternoons, I am really encouraged that at 52 years of age new music can still really excite me some 30 years after I should have been a "set in my ways" old school punk! 

[PaulWarning]

32 minutes ago, casapete said:

Not quite true - early OGWT were often mimed, with just a live lead vocal. 

Also TOTP in it's later years did feature live performances too. 

ah, the prog rock years, aren't they the ones that got all sniffy and said Punks couldn't play?

[pfretrock]

16 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

And don't forget Pan's People. 

You probably have this in mind.

 

[roceci]

7 hours ago, FinnDave said:

I worked in TV centre in the 80s and 90s, on TOTP recording days there would often be hordes of kids, almost all girls, wandering around the building having climbed in over walls or sneaked in past security (commissionaires!) on the gates. For a couple of years, I worked in the basement (VT ops), same level as most of the dressing rooms, and there wold be streams of girls trying to find where the stars' were. To us, they were just a bloody nuisance, getting in the way as we got on with our daily routine. It was always ten times worse if there was a big name band in. 

Into the lion's mouth...

[Barking Spiders]

Pan's People was the only reason I watched TOTP,  mainly for Sue who I had a mahoosive crush on as a pre-pubescent lad. 

[Twigman]

2 hours ago, ead said:

Yes indeed.  The very best music show ever.  Sorry, typo there.  I believe in common parlance that should read evaaaarrrrrrrhhh.

I preferred The Tube - far more my era

 

 

[Twigman]

I'm sure The Fast Show's Jazz Club was loosely based on OGWT

 

[Barking Spiders]

1 hour ago, Twigman said:

I'm sure The Fast Show's Jazz Club was loosely based on OGWT

 

They've recently had some reruns of it on BBC4 or Yesterday I think. Yep, it has to the the source material for Jazz Club, and not just loosely.  A bit too earnest for me although i never saw it when first broadcast

[xgsjx]

4 hours ago, lowregisterhead said:

Sorry, I'm not going to bite. It's all been said elsewhere, and a TOTP thread isn't really the right place for it. I will say this - it's still a rigged game, and the digital age has only made the odds of exposure and/or success even longer. Everything changes over time, and I fully accept that. The internet has knocked the music business as it was into a cocked hat, and streaming is the way forward for now. That doesn't make it any kinder a mistress than the system that went before it, however. The current state of smoke, mirrors and general confusion (and let's be clear, the same people and huge corporations are still behind it) is the labour pains of what's yet to come, and nobody knows how it will turn out. One thing is certain though - whatever is born out of this will be just as ugly a brat as its older siblings. So please, don't blame the musicians.

I'm not going to derail the thread & I can get where you're coming from, but the main cause of pubs & clubs not wanting to pay much for bands is because of the twazzicks that either play for very little or even pay to play.
I had the same issue with cakes.  People saying "I can get a wedding cake for less than £200 elsewhere".  I'd tell them to go elsewhere as I was already struggling to make a profit.  Numpties making "wedding cakes" & charging peanuts.  Though the cakes spoke for themselves.

[Leonard Smalls]

4 hours ago, FinnDave said:

Kensington House in 1988-91

Lawks - I was in despatch there, (Woodstock Gr), then I worked in Brian Hall's office for a year before xfer...

[FinnDave]

18 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Lawks - I was in despatch there, (Woodstock Gr), then I worked in Brian Hall's office for a year before xfer...

Every chance we've rubbed shoulders in the club bar, then. I know the 88 date is correct, because my first daughter was born shorty after I started working with Clive James, but the other dates are a bit vaguer. 

I was in a band when i worked in VT current ops at TVC, it was called 'Shift 2' as that's what we worked. Drummer & vocalist were both VT operators, the two guitarists and a keyboard man were non BBC.