Lending equipment to a bandmate?

[Dad3353]

Just now, Frank Blank said:

...I have not found others to be similarly inclined.

I abandoned long ago the idea that others might have the same standards as those I set myself, and am thus rarely disappointed, but on occasion pleasantly surprised. I'm more of a 'glass half full' mentality, generally. 

[Frank Blank]

2 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

I abandoned long ago the idea that others might have the same standards as those I set myself, and am thus rarely disappointed, but on occasion pleasantly surprised. I'm more of a 'glass half full' mentality, generally. 

Exactly this, although over the years I have become of the 'glass half empty and the remaining liquid is poison' mentality.

[Elfrasho]

18 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

From the OP...

"...it was okay to use it within the practice room if he wished, to save him lugging his own bass down..." (My Bold...)

... so he does have gear, but maybe less well adapted for the gig taken on. 'Snot much use being friends if one can't accept a bit of a hand now and again. If things were reversed, how many here would never consider asking a friend for the loan of something..? Seems an odd way of living to me, but 'To each his own', I suppose. I'm much less of a materialist, it would seem. It's only gear; friendships are of far more value, in my eyes, and couldn't be spoiled by a simple pecuniary loss. Still, whatever... 

Exactly! People seem to get too attached to musical instruments. If he's a pal, then I'm not sure what the issue is! 

If my pal wanted to borrow my lawn mower, or power drill, or even my car.. I would be OK with it, not sure why is different for a bass! Unless,  I suppose, the thing in question is used as my source of income, and an instrument could very well be. But I don't think the op is on that position. 

[Horrorhiker]

18 hours ago, Jonse said:

Some context: 

I play in a rock originals band with my brother (guitar) and two other fellas (drums, singer/guitar.) We are all good friends. 

The drummer has another band which do acoustic/folk originals which he sings and plays acoustic guitar in and the singer plays bass in. (Sorry if that is confusing.) 

We have a practice room that both bands share, however the rock originals band pays the rent for this room and I leave some of my stuff in there. (backup bass, gig rig, pedals.) 

They have a gig coming up where some local bands are doing covers from a Fleetwood Mac album. I initially heard about this event when talking to a promoter in a local bar and put the rock originals band forward to cover a song (they said we weren't suitable so whatever) however I believe my drummer's acoustic band then went on to be accepted for this gig after I mentioned that we should play it with the rock group (okay that's fine, great.) 

Essentially, the drummer and bass player are now asking to borrow a practice amp of mine and my back up bass to play the gig with. Do I tell them they are royally taking the p*ss or do I let them borrow my gear? On a recent gig the bass player used my back up bass without asking (I told him it was okay to use it within the practice room if he wished, to save him lugging his own bass down.) I care very much about the rock originals band and I don't want to cause any bad blood between us. 

Sorry if this essay of a post is confusing but my brain is feeling fried here. 

 

My approach has always been, neither a borrower or lender be, in music terms at least. Far too many potential arguments and irritations involved in even lending cheap gear. I always make that known right from the start of any musical endevour and then it's easy. Only exception is that people can use my cabs if i'm headlining, though I make that clear that as soon as my stuff is getting abused, the electric goes off and they find someone else's. 

Sounds intolerant maybe, but It's always the people that feel they don't have to be responsible for their own stuff that care the least about other peoples. 

I realise that's not you position exactly, but if you're lending to friends it can be even more awkward. Maybe an unpoplular opinion here, but my vote would be to say "sorry but It's a policy to never lend or borrow anything". 

[Horrorhiker]

41 minutes ago, Elfrasho said:

Exactly! People seem to get too attached to musical instruments. If he's a pal, then I'm not sure what the issue is! 

If my pal wanted to borrow my lawn mower, or power drill, or even my car.. I would be OK with it, not sure why is different for a bass! Unless,  I suppose, the thing in question is used as my source of income, and an instrument could very well be. But I don't think the op is on that position. 

With those other things, if they came back with a scratch on you'd barely notice, with the exception of the car..I guess with that you have insurance for that. With a bass, if it came back damaged in any way, every time you looked at it, it would remind you of how you mate doesn't care about your stuff (arguably even if it wasn't their fault). It would me anyway. 

[Horrorhiker]

14 minutes ago, Horrorhiker said:

My approach has always been, neither a borrower or lender be, in music terms at least. Far too many potential arguments and irritations involved in even lending cheap gear. I always make that known right from the start of any musical endevour and then it's easy. Only exception is that people can use my cabs if i'm headlining, though I make that clear that as soon as my stuff is getting abused, the electric goes off and they will be finding someone else's. 

Sounds intolerant maybe, but It's always the people that feel they don't have to be responsible for their own stuff that care the least about other peoples. 

I realise that's not you position exactly, but if you're lending to friends it can be even more awkward. Maybe an unpoplular opinion here, but my vote would be to say "sorry but It's a policy to never lend or borrow anything". 

..I sound so grumpy.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Horrorhiker

[paul_c2]

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

From the OP...

"...it was okay to use it within the practice room if he wished, to save him lugging his own bass down..." (My Bold...)

... so he does have gear, but maybe less well adapted for the gig taken on. 'Snot much use being friends if one can't accept a bit of a hand now and again. If things were reversed, how many here would never consider asking a friend for the loan of something..? Seems an odd way of living to me, but 'To each his own', I suppose. I'm much less of a materialist, it would seem. It's only gear; friendships are of far more value, in my eyes, and couldn't be spoiled by a simple pecuniary loss. Still, whatever... 

It gets curiouser and doesn't really clarify things, for me. If he has his own bass, he can use it for the gig, and you don't need to get involved in lending yours. Let's be realistic, nobody will know/care about the slight difference between the basses.

Having said that, I'm not actually too bothered about lending my own gear out because 1) I have spares of everythng, if the worst happens 2) in a relative sense, bass guitars aren't that expensive compared to many other instruments eg clarinets costing £2000, violins costing £10000 etc etc

[mcnach]

20 hours ago, Jonse said:

Had considered this but going to do the supportive thing and lend them my equipment. 

Frustrating to think though that if they didn't expect to borrow my stuff they'd be screwed. Perhaps this time it's been bugging me because they're not very thankful. 

 

That's the part that makes me feel uneasy. There you have a bass player without equipment, apparently. Why not? I'm more inclined to help someone whose equipment breaks down and need help, than someone who just doesn't even try, as it makes me think why not and whether they're likely to look after my stuff or not. 

Honestly, I would not feel comfortable unless I knew they guy in question well, or I knew that my other band mates could be relied to look after my equipment. There have been band mates in my time to whom I'd have lent anything, and others to whom I'd never ever lend anything. 

[mcnach]

3 hours ago, Elfrasho said:

Exactly! People seem to get too attached to musical instruments. If he's a pal, then I'm not sure what the issue is! 

If my pal wanted to borrow my lawn mower, or power drill, or even my car.. I would be OK with it, not sure why is different for a bass! Unless,  I suppose, the thing in question is used as my source of income, and an instrument could very well be. But I don't think the op is on that position. 

 

a bass is much more personal. can you get another bass like it? sure. Will it be like it? Unlikely. My main bass I love dearly, I feel at home with it, I know its every dent, it's got the exact setup I want, the neck was lacquered just the way I wanted it... etc. I can play other basses that will be nice... but that one is... special. That bass gets lent to nobody. It's not about the money it makes me, it's about whether something is easily replaceable or not. A bass often isn't. Even if it's my backup bass... it's a backup for a reason, it means it's close to my main bass. 

Here we have a guy who owns equipment but is trying to save effort carrying it... I cannot imagine myself doing that ever. Heavy amp etc? Perhaps, yes (I've invested in gear I can transport easily but that's just me). A bass? How hard is it to carry a bass? I don't want to play a gig with somebody else's bass. Is that a matter of laziness or carelessness or what?

I don't get it.

[dave_bass5]

22 hours ago, Jonse said:

Some context: 

I play in a rock originals band with my brother (guitar) and two other fellas (drums, singer/guitar.) We are all good friends.

Essentially, the drummer and bass player are now asking to borrow a practice amp of mine and my back up bass to play the gig with. Do I tell them they are royally taking the p*ss or do I let them borrow my gear?

 

 

Blimey, imagine if they weren't good friends.

Gotta love BC for this type of crap. In the real world friends support friends, not make threads about it expecting strangers to tell you how to behave.

 

[Jonse]

37 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Blimey, imagine if they weren't good friends.

Gotta love BC for this type of crap. In the real world friends support friends, not make threads about it expecting strangers to tell you how to behave.

 

I was unnecessarily riled up yesterday but thought through the situation logically and came out with a supportive decision. Normally I don't hold my tongue and tell it how it is, but I felt differently yesterday. 

This is what basschat is good for, I asked some "strangers", who may have been in a similar position in the past, their opinion and we all came out better for it when I could have caused an unnecessary rift between mates. 

I don't expect people to therapize me on here but it doesn't hurt to have a little perspective every now and again. 

[Dad3353]

1 minute ago, Jonse said:

I ... thought through the situation logically and came out with a supportive decision...

(... and maybe even gained a few Karma points..!  )

[discreet]

I'd rather lend stuff to complete strangers than friends. It's a lot more trouble when you break a friend's nose. 

Just joking - I'd never do that to anyone, especially a friend.
I'd leer at his girlfriend, though.

[Grangur]

Without knowing if the loan bass is a £60 Encore or a £400 fair to middle bass, it's hard to know what is do.

What we do know is the OP values the friendship. How much does the mate value this friendship? Enough to pay out for a bass and hand it over?

Also, why can't they use their own bass? Too much chance of damage/loss? But he's prepared to risk YOUR bass. 

IS he a friend? Really?

[dave_bass5]

26 minutes ago, Jonse said:

I was unnecessarily riled up yesterday but thought through the situation logically and came out with a supportive decision. Normally I don't hold my tongue and tell it how it is, but I felt differently yesterday. 

This is what basschat is good for, I asked some "strangers", who may have been in a similar position in the past, their opinion and we all came out better for it when I could have caused an unnecessary rift between mates. 

I don't expect people to therapize me on here but it doesn't hurt to have a little perspective every now and again. 

I understand, but if these are mates why bother with a thread. If it was me i would have spoken to them directly about any concerns. As it is you seemed to have done the right thing anyway.

[Dad3353]

3 minutes ago, Grangur said:

...Also, why can't they use their own bass? Too much chance of damage/loss? But he's prepared to risk YOUR bass. ...

Pure speculation. Maybe it's being repaired..? Maybe it's bben lent to yet another friend..? Maybe it's an acoustic bass, or one of those Ashbury things..? Maybe it's a (Shock..! Horror..!) Rickenbacker, and so useless for Blues..? It's of little matter in the story related by the OP; the case has come up and opinion asked for. The rest is just fantasy.

[Grangur]

1 minute ago, Dad3353 said:

Pure speculation. Maybe it's being repaired..? Maybe it's bben lent to yet another friend..? Maybe it's an acoustic bass, or one of those Ashbury things..? Maybe it's a (Shock..! Horror..!) Rickenbacker, and so useless for Blues..? It's of little matter in the story related by the OP; the case has come up and opinion asked for. The rest is just fantasy.

All fair points. So, as you say; we don't really know enough to have an opinion.

What we also don't know is the value of this equipment to either party. A £300 bass is a lot of money to one person, another wouldn't think it's significant.

[Dad3353]

4 minutes ago, Grangur said:

All fair points. So, as you say; we don't really know enough to have an opinion.

What we also don't know is the value of this equipment to either party. A £300 bass is a lot of money to one person, another wouldn't think it's significant.

For my part, I need no further information to have an opinion as, with the issue as related, the value has no bearing, nor the reasons for the loan request. It's just a question, to me, of simple principles and one's generosity, that's all. It might change things if there was some kind of form; if Pete Townsend asked to borrow my Hiwatt I'd maybe be more reticent. 

Edited March 24, 2018 by Dad3353

[discreet]

10 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Maybe it's a (Shock..! Horror..!) Rickenbacker, and so useless for Blues..?

Arf! Arf! 

[discreet]

2 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

...if Pete Townsend asked to borrow my Hiwatt I'd maybe be more reticent. 

Yes, or if GG Allin wanted to borrow a microphone. 

[Dad3353]

1 minute ago, discreet said:

Arf! Arf! 

And there were I, trying to be diplomatic..! 

[Frank Blank]

3 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

It's just a question, to me, of simple principles and one's generosity, that's all.

In my experience very, very few people have any principles at all and the vast majority will abuse generosity without batting an eyelid.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Frank Blank

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, Frank Blank said:

In my experience very, very few people have any principles at all and the vast majority will abuse generosity without batting an eyelid.

Maybe so (and I've had my share...) but principles are principles, and I've a strong streak of stubborn in my DNA. Doing what one holds to be right and proper is the goal, whatever the quirks and foibles of some (not that many, either, when all is added up...). To each his/her own, though.

[Frank Blank]

5 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Maybe so (and I've had my share...) but principles are principles, and I've a strong streak of stubborn in my DNA. Doing what one holds to be right and proper is the goal, whatever the quirks and foibles of some (not that many, either, when all is added up...). To each his/her own, though.

Then I admire you for that stubborn streak. I crumbled years ago under the weight of my experience, it crumpled me into the shape of a classic misanthrope.

[dmccombe7]

Afraid i don't have the same level of trust as others on here.

I've had gear damaged when stage sharing and to lend gear when i'm not there is not something i would even consider unless its a very close friend or someone i know i can trust and that is a very very short list.

Dave 

Edited March 24, 2018 by dmccombe7