Pros, Semi-Pros, Hobbyists / Weekend warriors etc.

[Al Krow]

Which one are you?

What the heck is a semi-pro bassist anyway? I couldn't satisfactorily explain this to the first person who took up bass in the Krow household this morning (which wasn't me!), so if you have clarity on this subject I'd love to hear!

I presume for these purposes a hobbyist will usually be in a band as opposed to a 'bedroom bassist' who won't?

[gs_triumph]

Semi pro I would assume is someone who gets some of their income from playing 

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, gs_triumph said:

Semi pro I would assume is someone who gets some of their income from playing 

Well I certainly get 'some' of my income from playing i.e. will likely exceed what I spend on gear, rehearsals and travel (for the first time!) in the first half of 2018, but that's maybe just down to me trying to self impose a one-in one out policy on gear 

But I'm almost certainly still a hobbyist, right?

[Sibob]

I would suggest that:

Pro Musician: Earns 100% of their income from musical eneavours
Semi Pro: Earns a percentage of their income from musical endeavours, topped up by income from non-musical endeavours. For the sake of crossover with Hobbyist, probably more income than they spend on gear.
Hobbyist/Weekend Warrior: Earns a little bit of money, but not enough to add to income after gear purchases.
Bedroom Bassist: Not in a band, just plays at home. Although plenty of Pro Musicians as a result of being a bedroom musician now thanks to Youtube

All in all, there's so many crossovers and exceptions.

Si

Edited March 25, 2018 by Sibob

[Al Krow]

@Sibob - that's good, thanks.

So a semi pro might be someone who regularly (i.e. one year to the next) expects to make a significant surplus from their bass playing (e.g. performance + teaching more than covers gear, rehearsals, travel etc). Not enough £££ to be able to give up the 'day job' (= pro), but more than just a bit of 'pocket money' and enough to give thought as to whether to include on a tax return? 

[scalpy]

I just about qualify for semi-pro. The day job is classroom music teacher- but I’m adamant that career is the craft of education first subject specialism second. I do ok as a reading bassist round here, the function band does 20 or so gigs a year and I pick up the occasional session or two a year. Of course semi pro can mean lucky to get paid as well!

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, scalpy said:

I just about qualify for semi-pro. The day job is classroom music teacher- but I’m adamant that career is the craft of education first subject specialism second. I do ok as a reading bassist round here, the function band does 20 or so gigs a year and I pick up the occasional session or two a year. Of course semi pro can mean lucky to get paid as well!

Yes, agree it's definitely more to do with whether your band is playing reasonably well paid functions (if it's a covers band) or making recordings which sell / playing festivals (if you're an originals band) but potentially nothing to do with whether or not you use a compressor, right? 

[Maude]

You don't work for HMRC do you?

[Al Krow]

12 minutes ago, Maude said:

You don't work for HMRC do you?

Haha - nope, I'm definitely on the side of my fellow taxpayers and bassists (although the two may not always be the same thing of course) 

[bazzbass]

I said semi pro because gig money is a percentage of my income stream, but it isn't very much, doubt if it covers cab fares and drinks at gigs lol

But, we DO have stickers and a logo by a graphic designer. And an official photographer/ video taker.so we must be PRO rotfl pmsl

[scalpy]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Yes, agree it's definitely more to do with whether your band is playing reasonably well paid functions (if it's a covers band) or making recordings which sell / playing festivals (if you're an originals band) but potentially nothing to do with whether or not you use a compressor, right? 

Paying me taxes but not claiming back compressor expenses!

[Dad3353]

Having been a 'pro' player (drums...) for many years, then semi-pro for a few more, I'm currently, and only just, holding down my place in our band, but will soon (When..? Dunno..!) have to give it up altogether as rigor mortis sets in. So it evolves over time; what's true today will not be shortly. I nevertheless chose, optimistically, Hobbyist/Week-end Warrior (although pacifist by nature...).

[Mykesbass]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Yes, agree it's definitely more to do with whether your band is playing reasonably well paid functions (if it's a covers band) or making recordings which sell / playing festivals (if you're an originals band) but potentially nothing to do with whether or not you use a compressor, right? 

Yes, originals is a much harder one to pigeonhole. Was very much in the hobbyist camp, and now in my mid fifties, didn't think it would ever be more. All of a sudden, our band having moved over to writing our own material, have a 9 date tour booked in November, a festival in January and are running our own self-promoted nights in Brighton. Still a long way from giving up the day job though 

[bertbass]

I would suggest that it's nothing to do with money but all to do with attitude and commitment.  How you perform, the lack of faffing on stage.

[Al Krow]

18 minutes ago, Mykesbass said:

Yes, originals is a much harder one to pigeonhole. Was very much in the hobbyist camp, and now in my mid fifties, didn't think it would ever be more. All of a sudden, our band having moved over to writing our own material, have a 9 date tour booked in November, a festival in January and are running our own self-promoted nights in Brighton. Still a long way from giving up the day job though 

That sounds great and is very encouraging to hear! You got any material uploaded? Doing any gigs in London I could get to?

4 minutes ago, bertbass said:

I would suggest that it's nothing to do with money but all to do with attitude and commitment.  How you perform, the lack of faffing on stage.

Yes true, but a full time pro who can't cover his travel costs or worse still can't put food on the table won't be a full time pro for very long. 

[Sibob]

6 minutes ago, bertbass said:

I would suggest that it's nothing to do with money but all to do with attitude and commitment.  How you perform, the lack of faffing on stage.

I’d profer that being a professional musician and having a professional attitude are VERY different things

Si 

[lojo]

53 minutes ago, Sibob said:

I’d profer that being a professional musician and having a professional attitude are VERY different things

Si 

Yes as in all professions there will be good and bad 

[Lozz196]

Hobbyist/Weekend Warrior for me. I do this purely for fun, and we - in general - only gig at weekends. All the money generated from the band goes back into the band, so no income at all. And similar to @Mykesbass am in my 50s, original material, with overseas tours/festivals/albums out etc having the best time of my life so far as a musician.

[Al Krow]

3 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

Hobbyist/Weekend Warrior for me. I do this purely for fun, and we - in general - only gig at weekends. All the money generated from the band goes back into the band, so no income at all. And similar to @Mykesbass am in my 50s, original material, with overseas tours/festivals/albums out etc having the best time of my life so far as a musician.

Hah! In terms of an originals band I would definitely have put you down as more than a hobbyist / weekend warrior Lozz! You're on your third (or is it your fourth?) album of original material with decent sales of each, right?

But I guess just 'playing for fun and not in it to make it pay' = as good a definition of hobbyist as any.

Interesting that in one of my covers bands I'd say three of us (including me) are hobbyists as we all have full time jobs that pay the rent and are not looking to our music to make ends meet. One of the singers is a semi-pro and the drummer well actually he's probably a 'pro' - he's in two originals (recording) bands and two covers bands. So the crossovers and exceptions, that @Sibob rightly refers to, can be there even within a band.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Al Krow

[Mykesbass]

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

Hobbyist/Weekend Warrior for me. I do this purely for fun, and we - in general - only gig at weekends. All the money generated from the band goes back into the band, so no income at all. And similar to @Mykesbass am in my 50s, original material, with overseas tours/festivals/albums out etc having the best time of my life so far as a musician.

Great isn't it? Early days for us, but I keep thinking "how on earth did that happen?"

[gjones]

A professional musician, is a musician that declares his full income, from music, to the taxman.

[tom1946]

I must be in a category of my own then.

I don't play secular gigs, just church worship, mostly in our church but if my wife is preaching in another church in our circuit She takes her 12 string guitar and I play bass to back her up. We have socials every couple of months and we do sing some songs from the shows or Beatles/Carpenters etc' but we never get paid nor expect to.

Semi pro with a sarnie and a cup of coffee? 

[Dood]

39 minutes ago, gjones said:

A professional musician, is a musician that declares his full income, from music, to the taxman.

That would be me! My Bass (and Guitars) have been (successfully) paying my Mortgage and been feeding my children for many years now. Oh and paying for my accountant ...  who gives my money too the taxman.Hmm.. lol

[Cat Burrito]

Before I read this thread I would have said Semi-pro, simply because a lot of the gigs I do are of a high standard, sold out art centres, tours, professionally recorded albums on an Indie label etc that get good reviews in the National press. Financially though, like with a few of you, it goes back into the band and I make a tiny amount on just a handful of shows. Players in all but one of my acts are either pro or ex-pro. I don't see myself as a hobbyist or weekend warrior simply because it's such a huge part of my life and a massive commitment.

[Lozz196]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Hah! In terms of an originals band I would, definitely have put you down as more than a hobbyist / weekend warrior Lozz! You're on your third (or is it your fourth?) album of original material with decent sales of each, right?

But I guess just 'playing for fun and not in it to make it pay' = as good a definition of hobbyist as any.

That`s it Bas, we do it for the sheer fun of it, recording/selling the material, and having people sing along with the words at our gigs all being part of that fun, hence why i say hobbyist even though the band does earn from it. Due to none of us taking any money from it I couldn`t say pro/semi-pro as it would be a very poorly paid profession

1 hour ago, Mykesbass said:

Great isn't it? Early days for us, but I keep thinking "how on earth did that happen?"

Same here, sure we`re not a "big" band, but it`s far bigger and more sucessful than anything else I`ve ever done, and we only decided to do it for fun, see where we could go with it.