Bean9seventy - the first UK funk / slap bassist?

[Bean9seventy]

 

[Bean9seventy]

  here is the blog on reddit bassit posted by silverdroid303 

Is this guy for real? He says that he was directly inspired by Bootsy and Louis Johnson and that Mark King ripped off his basslines that he used to play in music stores. He almost infers that there'd be no Level 42 without him.

[Bean9seventy]

Just now, Bean9seventy said:

  here is the blog on reddit bassit posted by silverdroid303 

Is this guy for real? He says that he was directly inspired by Bootsy and Louis Johnson and that Mark King ripped off his basslines that he used to play in music stores. He almost infers that there'd be no Level 42 without him.

my reply is simple ,, This Guy IS for real ,, but the above blog is taking it out of context

yes ,, people i knew went to the Bootsy / Brothers Johnson Gig , & started to get into slapping the bass ,,,  i joined in as a beginner & started to go to the music shops to buy a bass including the shop mark king was working in ,, thus mark king saw myself & 1 or 2 others slapping eg  " Cosmic Reign " by The Jazz Crusaders ,, &  thus mark king decided to quit drums & play bass instead  ,, so ? its true ,, tho i was not the 1st person to slap bass in the UK i was part of the 1st circle of Brit bass players who where ,,

out of respect i never talk about the other bass players ,,, tho i sometimes talk about paul tubbsy williams , who i knew & jammed with on occasions ,,  eg recalling going back stage at the Purley all dayerin 1979 with his band

[Bean9seventy]

Arguably The song that had a baseline that put Brit Funk on thhe map ,, Used my Mark King of Level 42 in "Mr Pink" ,, & Paul Tubsy Williams with Light of The World  called "Emergency"

[SpondonBassed]

I used to do the music shop shuffle myself.

Often, lots of other youths would be slapping away.  This was all done on unplugged basses so it was pointless trying out one if you didn't do slap yourself simply because you couldn't hear it above the clickety click that was present all around!  You couldn't beat 'em so you had to join 'em.

The truth be known, I was known more for influencing people away from the bass altogether I'm afraid. 

I have one of Level 42's early albums (the second I think) on four track cassette.  I think MK was a carpet fitter before that.

I loved it.  L42 had just got The Chinese Way onto TOTP but I preferred the earlier material.  I still do.

Edited March 27, 2018 by SpondonBassed

[ambient]

I thought I read that it was seeing an American guy slapping that Mark King started?

[drTStingray]

Although not the first mainstream single to do so, Car Wash by Rose Royce, with its slapped breakdowns and pop and slap octaving along with Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is possibly introduced that style to many mid 70s bass players - I went to an audition (in the UK) for a soul/funk band in the latter 70s and one of the other guys there played a lot of slap bass - and quite intimidating it was!! A lot of UK bass players were influenced by it - I'm pretty sure I heard Alan Spenner using the style in the later 70s also, and Neil Murray in National Health even. Larry Graham in Graham Central Station days also popularised it around that time in a more up front way than in Sly and the Family Stone - it appeared in some of Earth Wind and Fire singles (eg Saturday Night).

I saw the Crusaders several times in the 70s but on one occasion and notably they had a bass player called Robert 'Pops' Popwell playing with them and he was a phenomenal slap player - in fact was featured in a solo much as you would see Louis Johnson. That Crusaders track is interesting and does sound a little like Mr Pink by Level 42. 

I would have though Mark King heard all the music going on around him (including what people in the music shop he worked in played) and like any other developing player would have likely been influenced by it. 

The Level 42 stuff was really an 80s phenomena and Mark clearly took the style to a new level - the 80s sound (used by lots of other Brit funk bands of that period) was different as well being more scooped and hi fi sounding - more reminiscent of Stanley Clarke. 

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by drTStingray

[mcnach]

On 3/26/2018 at 13:29, Bean9seventy said:

my reply is simple ,, This Guy IS for real ,, but the above blog is taking it out of context

yes ,, people i knew went to the Bootsy / Brothers Johnson Gig , & started to get into slapping the bass ,,,  i joined in as a beginner & started to go to the music shops to buy a bass including the shop mark king was working in ,, thus mark king saw myself & 1 or 2 others slapping eg  " Cosmic Reign " by The Jazz Crusaders ,, &  thus mark king decided to quit drums & play bass instead  ,, so ? its true ,, tho i was not the 1st person to slap bass in the UK i was part of the 1st circle of Brit bass players who where ,,

out of respect i never talk about the other bass players ,,, tho i sometimes talk about paul tubbsy williams , who i knew & jammed with on occasions ,,  eg recalling going back stage at the Purley all dayerin 1979 with his band

 

Hey @Bean9seventy, welcome to Basschat! I love your playing videos... really tasteful and beautiful slap bass!

[Bean9seventy]

On 3/26/2018 at 14:53, SpondonBassed said:

I used to do the music shop shuffle myself.

Often, lots of other youths would be slapping away.  This was all done on unplugged basses so it was pointless trying out one if you didn't do slap yourself simply because you couldn't hear it above the clickety click that was present all around!  You couldn't beat 'em so you had to join 'em.

The truth be known, I was known more for influencing people away from the bass altogether I'm afraid. 

I have one of Level 42's early albums (the second I think) on four track cassette.  I think MK was a carpet fitter before that.

I loved it.  L42 had just got The Chinese Way onto TOTP but I preferred the earlier material.  I still do.

a lof of people wore 501 Levis After they saw the advert ,,,  some people got an ear ring After they saw the sex pistols ,, yes i remember . i was a dancer , see , Brit funk was grass roots upwards ,,  Chris Hill ,, ?

tune 1 for learners probably was Wild Cherry

tune 2  T Connection do what you wanna do ,, This tune is very important to UK Disco in many ways  perhaps  the 1st bass line that bass players ever Popped ( before folks knew about thumb slapping )

the clickety click comment proves they were not the original bass players ,, as they dont play that way, james brown bootsy etc, they dont play that way, the  clickety click thing was a cheap button method to quantize  ? i use it sometimes # a repeating pattern that became " euro sent trick ,,,, it has very little R & B value ? you know soul like The Average White Band "   its devoid of the funk  ,, "The Brothers of Funk" Q my dear ,

what """" Bootsy """ did was what jimi hendrix did in the 1960s when he came to london  ,, no one had ever seen anything like that before ,, i am sure The Brothers Johnson were the warm up band

ps  if you are sure MK was slapping before the above let us know ;D

Edited March 29, 2018 by Bean9seventy

[Bean9seventy]

On 3/27/2018 at 01:40, drTStingray said:

Although not the first mainstream single to do so, Car Wash by Rose Royce, with its slapped breakdowns and pop and slap octaving along with Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is possibly introduced that style to many mid 70s bass players - I went to an audition (in the UK) for a soul/funk band in the latter 70s and one of the other guys there played a lot of slap bass - and quite intimidating it was!! A lot of UK bass players were influenced by it - I'm pretty sure I heard Alan Spenner using the style in the later 70s also, and Neil Murray in National Health even. Larry Graham in Graham Central Station days also popularised it around that time in a more up front way than in Sly and the Family Stone - it appeared in some of Earth Wind and Fire singles (eg Saturday Night).

I saw the Crusaders several times in the 70s but on one occasion and notably they had a bass player called Robert 'Pops' Popwell playing with them and he was a phenomenal slap player - in fact was featured in a solo much as you would see Louis Johnson. That Crusaders track is interesting and does sound a little like Mr Pink by Level 42. 

I would have though Mark King heard all the music going on around him (including what people in the music shop he worked in played) and like any other developing player would have likely been influenced by it. 

The Level 42 stuff was really an 80s phenomena and Mark clearly took the style to a new level - the 80s sound (used by lots of other Brit funk bands of that period) was different as well being more scooped and hi fi sounding - more reminiscent of Stanley Clarke. 

 

i mixed up the two posts ,, it wont matter

it was the demand of people who went to the disco that artists from the USA were asked to do gigs for

although there was a standard soul circuit eg Diana Ross etc Ray Charles ,,,,,

Chris Hill was undoubtedly the top name in what was then still an Underground Movement ? ,,, these are the areas were it all started  ,, Hi Tension was the very 1st Brit gig ,,we were all there & Chris Hill or similar ran it

 even if MK could hear music as you thought ,, it all would been via an underground source ? including other bass players ? ,, leading back to ? eg Chris Hill & the uk disco movement   it still would have traveled to their ears via us , the dance crowd in those times ultimately rated music & gave birth to Brit Funk ,,,

people telll me its that same Brit Funk crowd that went to level 42s very 1st gigs in the early 80s

by the early 80s i quit & turned my back ) the music industry stopped dancing too i refuse to take show biz seriously ;D that's why i don't play bass as well as some of my peers & predecessors or as well as i should with all that history ,, thanks ,

Edited March 29, 2018 by Bean9seventy

[SpondonBassed]

1 hour ago, Bean9seventy said:

a lof of people wore 501 Levis After they saw the advert ,,,  some people got an ear ring After they saw the sex pistols ,, yes i remember . i was a dancer , see , Brit funk was grass roots upwards ,,  Chris Hill ,, ?

tune 1 for learners probably was Wild Cherry

tune 2  T Connection do what you wanna do ,, This tune is very important to UK Disco in many ways  perhaps  the 1st bass line that bass players ever Popped ( before folks knew about thumb slapping )

the clickety click comment proves they were not the original bass players ,, as they dont play that way, james brown bootsy etc, they dont play that way, the  clickety click thing was a cheap button method to quantize  ? i use it sometimes # a repeating pattern that became " euro sent trick ,,,, it has very little R & B value ? you know soul like The Average White Band "   its devoid of the funk  ,, "The Brothers of Funk" Q my dear ,

what """" Bootsy """ did was what jimi hendrix did in the 1960s when he came to london  ,, no one had ever seen anything like that before ,, i am sure The Brothers Johnson were the warm up band

ps  if you are sure MK was slapping before the above let us know ;D

I wouldn't know about MK or anyone else for that matter.  Our influences were mainly Joy Division/New Order, early REM, The Smiths, that sort of thing.

My interest in jazz/funk fusion occurred before MK with this LP:

 

I was living in Ireland at the time and we were surrounded by a lot of C&W with a strong American flavour as well as rebel songs and traditional music.  All of my mates hated it.  I never really got exposed to American music other than pop on the radio and let's face it, that wasn't exactly inspirational.

Visitor 2035 was when I first heard the funk in any form.  I learnt of Bootsy and others by name much much later

[Bean9seventy]

i forgot to agree ,,, Stanley Clarke is an acceptance to the rule as he was being discovered from music magazines ,, they would be sold & read in musical shops ,, he became really noticed via The Modern Man LP ?? ,, & people than back cataloged & discovered school days etc  ,, it was the same for Herbie Hancock after the Sunlight LP people discovered his earlier work ,,

nevertheless people in the UK were already slapping in lue of the launch of Stanley ,,, in 1980 ? Stanley came to the UK & done a TV bass lesson show ? ,, eg i already had a bass on point whilst i was watching the show ,,

i agree Stanley is very important to the 2nd round of Brit Funk players ,, paul tubbsy william MK & myself at that ,, time, all had basses eg not" fender basses" that were more in line to a bass Stanley would have used

[Bean9seventy]

7 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

I wouldn't know about MK or anyone else for that matter.  Our influences were mainly Joy Division/New Order, early REM, The Smiths, that sort of thing.

My interest in jazz/funk fusion occurred before MK with this LP:

 

I was living in Ireland at the time and we were surrounded by a lot of C&W with a strong American flavour as well as rebel songs and traditional music.  All of my mates hated it.  I never really got exposed to American music other than pop on the radio and let's face it, that wasn't exactly inspirational.

Visitor 2035 was when I first heard the funk in any form.  I learnt of Bootsy and others by name much much later

was checking out The Vistior quote & LP ,,, man the 70s had a lot of funky music after all it was the 70s ,,

anyway ,, it was only after The London Bass Guitar Show 2011? that MK done an after party interview where he talks about working in a music shop ,,  then i remembered it ,, was him

if MK would have  said nothing in that interbiew i would never have known (maybe forever) ,,, think it was a nice gesture that he did remind people ,,

such humble beginnings ? crazy disco dancers who mow wanted to be like robert popswell   i used to call him robert popswelll Robinson as i thought "pops well" was his nick  name ,, THANKS

[mybass]

Marvelous choice Bean9seventy.......‘‘twas my good self on bass herein. The band members all survive to this day I’m very happy to add! We were into Chick Corea’s Return to Forever with Stan the Man on bass who had already started putting out his solo vinyl stuff.....

[drTStingray]

7 hours ago, Bean9seventy said:

T Connection do what you wanna do ,, This tune is very important to UK Disco in many ways  perhaps  the 1st bass line that bass players ever Popped ( before folks knew about thumb slapping )

I'm glad you mentioned this one Bean9Seventy. I started bass playing well before I got into clubbing - my first experience of this was in the mid 70s and I was mesmerised by the bass lines on lots if not all of the stuff the DJs played - and that T Connection track was played regularly and filled the dance floor. It struck me as a similar type of line that Stanley Clark was playing on his first solo album. 

There quite a lot of other tracks making a regular appearance - some of them quite obscure - I guess this was the 'dance culture' of the time. I think Boogie Nights started as a track played in clubs - I certainly remember it being played (12" version?)

Interesting to hear your views on bass and disco music, particularly as it was the disco dancing which got you into bass. 

I was already a bass player but was further inspired by the music in clubs in that era. This is one of the first pop and slap parts I ever heard - 1976 - I definitely hear some MK grooves in there after the first guitar breakdown - Love Games for instance

 

Edited March 30, 2018 by drTStingray

[Bean9seventy]

 

 

 

video from 1978 ,, of the worlds 1st ever  WORLD disco final ,, this was shown live all over the world ,,, millions saw it ,, apart from john travolta & michael jackson ; D ,

there are bands to grab , billy ocean , the cool notes ,, the real thing , heatwave ,, the average white bank,  de funked ,,, & the Reggie bands ,, they too didnt see this clip ,, ;D

Brit funk was born out of the underground disco movement they were , raw definition ,bands for the disco fans , that were once themselves fans , just like the beatles were ,, just like punk was ,,

people today do often side step the raw story of Brit funk by refering to earlier works like rare random fusion tracks & players    ,, Brit funk was kind of born overnight it has a day a date they know the exact songs played & rated ,, who what where when ,,

until i met the people who went backstage with Bootsy in 78 i never knew what a bass was ; D

[SpondonBassed]

I was in an Irish secondary school at that time ('75 to '80).  Our view of the disco dance phenomenon was propelled by the release of Saturday Night Fever.

For a laugh, I took disco dancing lessons after school.  The instructor was travelling around the country setting up courses for eager kids to dance like Travolta in that film.  I enjoyed the experience.  Since the school had subsidised the course, we had to put on a show with what we'd learned.

That was the first time that I had performed for an audience.  Thank you for provoking that memory in me.

Those were indeed Good Times.

[lowdown]

Although ‘Car Wash’ has been mentioned, also the album ‘Look Out For #1’ early in 1976, had us all breaking out our thumbs back then. 

 

Edited March 30, 2018 by lowdown

[Paul S]

All good stuff.  The first I remember being aware of slap/pop bass was on this Al Jarreau tune 'You Don't See Me' 1975 - starts about 1 min into it.  Not as percussive as most.

 

Edited March 30, 2018 by Paul S

[lowdown]

^^^^

Yes !! I  have that album (I forgot about it to be honest). Great album, lovely arrangements by Dave Grusin as well. That’s Paul Stallworth on Bass, quite a session player at the time.

I am pretty sure there is a track from a ‘5th Dimension’ album in ‘75 with him that has some thumb and popped Bass. I think he also played on that awful Keith Moon solo album from the same period.

 

There is an interesting article with Marcus Miller (somewhere on the net). He thinks slapping goes way back, before Larry Graham.

Musicians from Gnawa were slapping their Gimbris for centuries (sounds painful, I know). 

 

 

Sorry ‘Bean9seventy’, I have gone off track a bit.

Edited March 30, 2018 by lowdown

[Bean9seventy]

23 hours ago, drTStingray said:

I'm glad you mentioned this one Bean9Seventy. I started bass playing well before I got into clubbing - my first experience of this was in the mid 70s and I was mesmerised by the bass lines on lots if not all of the stuff the DJs played - and that T Connection track was played regularly and filled the dance floor. It struck me as a similar type of line that Stanley Clark was playing on his first solo album. 

There quite a lot of other tracks making a regular appearance - some of them quite obscure - I guess this was the 'dance culture' of the time. I think Boogie Nights started as a track played in clubs - I certainly remember it being played (12" version?)

Interesting to hear your views on bass and disco music, particularly as it was the disco dancing which got you into bass. 

I was already a bass player but was further inspired by the music in clubs in that era. This is one of the first pop and slap parts I ever heard - 1976 - I definitely hear some MK grooves in there after the first guitar breakdown - Love Games for instance

 

people i knew were getting it from Bootsy Direct  ,, there was a soul thing going on average white band ,, to billy ocean , ??  brit funk was a specific time during the 70s , it was deeper underground in a matter of weeks which created a hot point as fans became the bands for the fans ,,

think this brit funk tune sums up the era

the southern freeze was a dance move ,, seen checked out by the soul movement about 

yes we know 100s of pub bands plus could play stevie wonder superstition in the mid 70s  ,, 

but just like studio 54 brit funk and its birth out of disco ,, was starting from a blank page ,, it was not a continuation of the mid seventies music style & feeling it was totaly  new

like the new 12 inch records ? t connection was in the 1st batch of 12 inch records , Disco , available to buy in the UK in 1977 99p

no one knew anything about slap bass in the uk , until people saw bootsy & the brothers johnston gig ?? man  Thunderthumbs & Bootsy ,?? WOW , the transatlantic message ,,  the 1st bass mashup outside of the USA  people i knew were never doing nothing other than rating the gig ,, it was epic historical dope ,, like jimi hendrix walking on to the rolling stones jam ,

being as vinyl only disco man i was not live music back then so i never went to the gig ,, 

when i saw the funk guys doing disco  bass with fulll slap i became a player overnight

[Bean9seventy]

14 hours ago, lowdown said:

^^^^

Yes !! I  have that album (I forgot about it to be honest). Great album, lovely arrangements by Dave Grusin as well. That’s Paul Stallworth on Bass, quite a session player at the time.

I am pretty sure there is a track from a ‘5th Dimension’ album in ‘75 with him that has some thumb and popped Bass. I think he also played on that awful Keith Moon solo album from the same period.

 

There is an interesting article with Marcus Miller (somewhere on the net). He thinks slapping goes way back, before Larry Graham.

Musicians from Gnawa were slapping their Gimbris for centuries (sounds painful, I know). 

 

 

Sorry ‘Bean9seventy’, I have gone off track a bit.

i get the chance to do my 1st bass chat joke ,, yes lowdown ,, but we are not talking about Mr Larry Graham ,,, look a post i read in bassit via reddit exaggerated what i put forward on you tube ,,  i was not the 1st UK slap bassit but in the 1st wave / circle of players

who went to the music shop(s) MK worked in where he  saw herd  ,, the underground bass lines we were into before he was a bassist / or worked in the bass section of his shop  ,, as we remember the shop Before" he worked there ,, he was a new member of staff ,

[Bean9seventy]

15 hours ago, Paul S said:

All good stuff.  The first I remember being aware of slap/pop bass was on this Al Jarreau tune 'You Don't See Me' 1975 - starts about 1 min into it.  Not as percussive as most.

 

i hear a lot of stories ,,,,  man , people sometimes side step brit funk ,,, they tend to push a theory of continuum ,, yes bob james , yes ramsey lewis the whole decade of the 1970s is funky , soulful ,,, & ? disco ,  then a new deeper underground  disco that set in stone fusion jazz soul funk , for a few short years the world went disco crazy ,, & it was only until then did anyone take notice of the bass player ,, in lue of any slapping ,, 

eg how would you know they were thumbing & plucking slapping the bass in 1975  if you had never seen the method done ,,

[Bean9seventy]

18 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

I was in an Irish secondary school at that time ('75 to '80).  Our view of the disco dance phenomenon was propelled by the release of Saturday Night Fever.

For a laugh, I took disco dancing lessons after school.  The instructor was travelling around the country setting up courses for eager kids to dance like Travolta in that film.  I enjoyed the experience.  Since the school had subsidised the course, we had to put on a show with what we'd learned.

That was the first time that I had performed for an audience.  Thank you for provoking that memory in me.

Those were indeed Good Times.

used ,to go on the dance floor with the martha graham troupe at that level  & take over a disco ,,  was sometimes mistaken for one of the dancers ,, others knew we knew marthas dancers anyways ,,,

 

[SpondonBassed]

7 hours ago, Bean9seventy said:

i hear a lot of stories ,,,,  man , people sometimes side step brit funk ,,, they tend to push a theory of continuum ,, yes bob james , yes ramsey lewis the whole decade of the 1970s is funky , soulful ,,, & ? disco ,  then a new deeper underground  disco that set in stone fusion jazz soul funk , for a few short years the world went disco crazy ,, & it was only until then did anyone take notice of the bass player ,, in lue of any slapping ,, 

eg how would you know they were thumbing & plucking slapping the bass in 1975  if you had never seen the method done ,,

I sometimes wonder what would have happened with Disco, Soul and Funk had the 'Disco Sucks' movement not occurred.

I think it had the effect of driving what was emerging from underground into popular culture right back down there again.  Far from killing the genre it made it stronger.  The underground (as perceived by mainstream culture of the time) was where these beats began.  It's where they thrived.  One megalomaniac DJ was never going to make much of a dent in it.

Britfunk might have been on a slightly better footing because our music was being monopolised less by the broadcasters than ever before.  Soul, Rhythm and Blues, Jazz/funk were all getting mainstream exposure and there was a bit of a revival that just carried on.

Being able to record what you wanted to listen to made a huge difference to the youth now that they had the compact cassette.  I see home recording more as a catalyst than a threat to the music industry.

Stuff that is over commercialised always gets diluted 'till it's got that same packaging and bland delivery as everything else.

Brit funk seems unaffected by Steve Dahl's hate campaign but I'd like to hear your take on that.

Not being resident in the UK at the time, I missed out on a lot of the music that was played in the underground clubs.  For instance, Northern Soul.  Only now am I educating myself.

You asked; "how would you know they were thumbing & plucking slapping the bass in 1975  if you had never seen the method done"?

I remember where I first saw how that sound could be made.  You will not like me for saying.  It was when MK did an extended solo on Channel Four's The Tube in the early eighties.  I was not a bass player then, I was a poser who'd been told by musical mates to hold this (a bass), put your left hand there and hold that string down and pluck.  I became the bassist for Holiday Mood.    Only when I saw MK did I think... AHA!

It lasted for about two years then I dropped out to concentrate on my apprenticeship.  I only picked it up again in my fifties.

Edited March 31, 2018 by SpondonBassed