Musician wins ruling over hearing loss.

[musicbassman]

Well, this is either really quite sensible or absolutely bonkers, depending on your point of view.................

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-43571144

...................."acoustic shock", eh ?

[Frank Blank]

Bollards, can you imagine Lemmy suing Marshall and Rickenbacker for hearing damage? Or perhaps a venue they were playing, utter tosh, is no one ever responsible for their own actions anymore? If I went deaf in a loud environment I wouldn’t even consider taking legal action unless it was explicitly due to someone else’s negligence and even then that would be highly difficult to prove. In fact if someone like me bowled over and said “But this is a loud environment, it’s a risk you take you plank”, I’d probably take the ‘fair enough’ high road (and then get hit by the car I didn’t hear honking at me).

[Cat Burrito]

My Dad's hearing is shot from playing drums in the 60s. He played intensely for less than 10 years. I've played for 30 and touchwood, I'm fine. I think it depends on what you've been exposed to. When you read the article it sounds like he was very much in the firing line.

[Frank Blank]

My hearing is in tatters after many years gigging, being road crew and sitting in on hugely over-loud rehearsals, all entirely my fault. He may well of been in the firing line but was he forced into it? Did he not realise it’s a loud piece, could he not have worn ear protectors?

[The59Sound]

Ear plugs? Of course it's someone else's fault because he didn't put them in. 

[T-Bay]

I remember my first big gig- Iron Maiden, my ears buzzed for days I was 16 at the time. Was I to blame? Can I sue them or the venue? (Doubt it). Suffered from tinnitus ever since, so I can imagine it can start from a single exposure, I (nearly) always wear protection at gigs, playing or listening.

[scalpy]

Had to be a viola player didn’t it?

[Woodinblack]

I don't understand why he didn't use ear plugs. Had he not noticed that an orchestra was loud before this? I would have thought that your hearing was your own concern, and if you are at the level of playing with an orchestra maybe you should have taken it seriously. I am sure there were other people in that orchestra still.

[T-Bay]

There is a duty of care on the employer to protect its employees health. If they have offered hearing protection and he refused it then it’s a different matter.

[Dad3353]

The last post I held down was IT Manager in an aluminium foundry, for thirteen years. All of the workshop areas required the wearing of safety shoes, of a specific model with metatarsal protection, and safety glasses. Several areas required ear protection, due to the noise levels to be found there, either permanent or punctual, as measured by competent authorities. No-one was allowed into any of these areas without these equipments, anyone flouting these rules would be escorted away; repeats would be a disciplinary matter, up to and including dismissal. These were not simply 'house rules', they are part and parcel of the French H & S regulations, and apply everywhere in France. I'd be very surprised if there were not similar measures in place in UK workplaces. I see no reason to exempt artists from these precautions.

[pete.young]

10 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

I don't understand why he didn't use ear plugs. Had he not noticed that an orchestra was loud before this? I would have thought that your hearing was your own concern, and if you are at the level of playing with an orchestra maybe you should have taken it seriously. I am sure there were other people in that orchestra still.

 

According to the report in the Guardian, he did wear ear plugs and suffered hearing damage despite that.

Also according to the Guardian, there were a number of breaches of legislation relating to noise. An orchestra pit is a workplace just like any other, and the employer is responsible for carrying out the necessary risk assessments and if necessary providing  safety equipment.

[Happy Jack]

Judging by the grounds on which the ROH chose to fight the case, it seems clear that they knew they were on a sticky wicket.

The Royal Opera House argued that acoustic shock does not exist, and that if it did, Mr Goldscheider did not have it.

Their case was that he had developed an entirely natural hearing condition, known as Meniere's disease, at exactly the same time as the super-loud, high intensity noise burst behind his right ear.

However, Mrs Justice Nicola Davies took a different view, stating: "I regard the defendant's contention that Meniere's disease developed at the rehearsal as stretching the concept of coincidence too far."

Edited March 29, 2018 by Happy Jack

[wateroftyne]

I can't see a problem with the ruling.

Is it even practical to wear earplugs in an orchestra..?

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, wateroftyne said:

I can't see a problem with the ruling.

Is it even practical to wear earplugs in an orchestra..?

It certainly isn't practical to loose one's hearing.

[wateroftyne]

Just now, Dad3353 said:

It certainly isn't practical to loose one's hearing.

Of course not. Nor is it practical to wear earplugs. The inference being that there has to be a third way...

[Dad3353]

1 minute ago, wateroftyne said:

Of course not. Nor is it practical to wear earplugs. The inference being that there has to be a third way...

No inference on my part. Either one wears protection, or one's hearing is compromised. There are several forms of protection, suitable for many industries, including the music industry. What's suitable for a rock musician is liable to be suitable for an orchestra pit player, I'd have thought.

[wateroftyne]

Just now, Dad3353 said:

No inference on my part. Either one wears protection, or one's hearing is compromised. There are several forms of protection, suitable for many industries, including the music industry. What's suitable for a rock musician is liable to be suitable for an orchestra pit player, I'd have thought.

...or the furniture is rearranged so no-one is sitting immediately in front of the brass.

[Dad3353]

2 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

...or the furniture is rearranged so no-one is sitting immediately in front of the brass.

That won't help the bloke sat next to the cymbal clashes..! 

No, you're right, of course, but then, the noise levels would not make the use of protection necessary at all. So much the better, certainly, but if one is exposed to noise, protection is required, practical or not.

[wateroftyne]

6 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

That won't help the bloke sat next to the cymbal clashes..! 

No, you're right, of course, but then, the noise levels would not make the use of protection necessary at all. So much the better, certainly, but if one is exposed to noise, protection is required, practical or not.

It's so impractical as to suggest it's not worth them even showing up.

[Dad3353]

2 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

It's so impractical as to suggest it's not worth them even showing up.

? ? ? What's so impractical about ear protection..? I've used 'em industrially and on stages; I know lots of musicians that wouldn't be without 'em. A viola player has a different morphology..? I don't understand the problem.

[wateroftyne]

You can't see what's impractical about an viola player performing in an orchestra with ear protection? Seriously?

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, wateroftyne said:

You can't see what's impractical about an viola player performing in an orchestra with ear protection? Seriously?

No more (or less...) so than a bass player, no.

[wateroftyne]

9 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

No more (or less...) so than a bass player, no.

OK...

[casapete]

1 hour ago, wateroftyne said:

...or the furniture is rearranged so no-one is sitting immediately in front of the brass.

Read the news article with interest, as I spent 15 years in a band standing in front of a brass section.

My hearing is compromised, but (touchwood) not severely so. I wore plugs in my later years as was starting to suffer from the effects

of this, especially the bast*rd trumpet player whose instrument was my ear height. Add a drummer with cymbals set high and you can see

why I left the band! Just hope my hearing holds out now, having used plugs where needed for the last ten years or so.

[Happy Jack]

1 hour ago, wateroftyne said:

You can't see what's impractical about an viola player performing in an orchestra with ear protection? Seriously?

In truth, Michael, I'm struggling with this too. No one is suggesting stuffing cotton wool in your ears so that you can hear nothing. Now that, that would be impractical. And that's called "ear plugs".

Using proper "ear protection" is another matter entirely. My ER15s, or even a pair of (much cheaper) ER20s, will reduce the volume of what I hear without changing the sound of what I hear.

As a long-term tinnitus sufferer, my understanding is that you can get it just as easily through prolonged exposure to relatively high volumes as by very brief exposure to very high volumes ... I got mine from riding big, noisy motorbikes, not from playing bass.

My point is that regardless of whether you play trumpet, viola or the triangle, playing professionally in an orchestra will require very long periods of exposure to to relatively high volumes.

Of course the guy should have been wearing proper ear protection. I think the question now is whose job was it to supply him with that protection and ensure that he was wearing it.