wateroftyne Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I'm quite surprised I seem to be alone in this. Orchestras rely on individual dynamics for nuance. There's no-one in FOH to tweak the balance. How on earth is an orchestral player supposed to nail dynamics whilst wearing ear protection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Actually these reasoned arguments have made me think again, indeed it is the responsibility of an employer to ensure the health and safety of its employees, hmmmm. I suppose adequate warnings about noise and adequate ear protection could have been issued and recommended, from then in it could be the employees risk if they wish to take it. I suppose it is a shock to me because it seems obvious that loud environments carry a risk and although I am wholly behind a culture of health and safety I also feel that people, generally, are less and less inclined to take responsibility for their actions and choices. If the orchestra was causing hearing damage due to neglect or exceeding some kind of recognised volume limit (it may well have done, I am no expert in this field) then fair enough and I suppose there has to be a first in defining laws and regulation in certain fields. As I said it’s just the trend for abdication of personal responsility that worries me, perhaps it’s an entirely different matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bay Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 27 minutes ago, wateroftyne said: I'm quite surprised I seem to be alone in this. Orchestras rely on individual dynamics for nuance. There's no-one in FOH to tweak the balance. How on earth is an orchestral player supposed to nail dynamics whilst wearing ear protection? I suppose the next question then is should people be expected (allowed?) to perform/ work in such a way as to have a significant chance of causing life changing disability. The answer would be no in any industry I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmedunc Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 (edited) Some of the old 'tips' are the best - Edited March 29, 2018 by itsmedunc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 For what it’s worth I just chatted with someone who worked for Scottish Opera and they have issued ear protectors and utilised deflectors since 2002. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, Frank Blank said: For what it’s worth I just chatted with someone who worked for Scottish Opera and they have issued ear protectors and utilised deflectors since 2002. Ear protectors surprises me. Are they worn, do you know? Just during rehearsals, or for the performances, too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I did a lot of shooting with the CCF back in the early 70s. Ear protectors were available, even then, but it was considered "a bit wet" to wear them. Teenaged boys are easily steered by peer group pressure, so no one wore them. My hearing in my right ear has a sharp dip in responsiveness at the frequency associated with rifle fire, and I imagine pretty much all the other boys I was with in the CCF have the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 40 minutes ago, wateroftyne said: Ear protectors surprises me. Are they worn, do you know? Just during rehearsals, or for the performances, too? Both, just checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, Frank Blank said: Both, just checked. Wow - I’m genuinely suprised at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, wateroftyne said: Wow - I’m genuinely suprised at that. Me too actually, although it makes sense to me now I had never thought about it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Just now, Frank Blank said: Me too actually, although it makes sense to me now I had never thought about it before. There’s such a fundamental relationship between the musician, their peers, the room acoustics and the mood the conductor is in, I’m amazed even the lightest attenuation doesn’t strip too much of it away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 17 minutes ago, wateroftyne said: There’s such a fundamental relationship between the musician, their peers, the room acoustics and the mood the conductor is in, I’m amazed even the lightest attenuation doesn’t strip too much of it away. I just Googled ‘ear defenders in orchestra’ lots of articles and products, some of which are quite old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Just now, Frank Blank said: I just Googled ‘ear defenders in orchestra’ lots of articles and products, some of which are quite old. Yeah - I've read a lot of comments about them, mostly from people saying they just use them at rehearsals. I'm intrigued as to how common they are during concerts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurhenry Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 On 3/29/2018 at 15:51, wateroftyne said: I'm quite surprised I seem to be alone in this. Orchestras rely on individual dynamics for nuance. There's no-one in FOH to tweak the balance. How on earth is an orchestral player supposed to nail dynamics whilst wearing ear protection? I'm sure you're fully aware of musicians' earplugs, which reduce volume, but allow all frequencies to be heard. Surely these would work ok in an orchestra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I think a lot of this is to do with some players being extremely powerful and the collective might of such a big ensemble. Many viola and similar players probably start out in small quartets and then don't change their methods when they join huge ensembles. I play electric bass in a wind and brass concert band. Even though the trombone is known as one of the loudest acoustic instruments, we have one trombone player who seems to always be able to get painfully loud without trying. He is famed for it in a joking way in the band and seems to be proud of it but I wouldn't want to sit in front of him. Even when he's not there, the levels of the whole band playing ff can get silly - I can end up having to crank my amp quite loud, even though I'm the only amplified instrument. Funnily enough the only people I see wearing ear protection are the drummer who hits hard and the Bari sax player who only has one dynamic - almost as loud as the trombone player... I also remember playing trombone at school myself and remember our section being a bit arrogant about how loud we could play - there was one lad in particular who loved to run up behind other players and blast a note to startle them - if we kids knew what we know now, he'd have had multiple court cases against him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 On 29/03/2018 at 13:21, wateroftyne said: Of course not. Nor is it practical to wear earplugs. The inference being that there has to be a third way... Sorry to be a tedious bore, but quite a few orchestral players wear earplugs (as do some conductors). Normally it's the 8dB attenuation filters which do just fine. I know a few players go for the 15dB filters (in and around the horn section mostly) which I use for band work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 On 29/03/2018 at 15:51, wateroftyne said: I'm quite surprised I seem to be alone in this. Orchestras rely on individual dynamics for nuance. There's no-one in FOH to tweak the balance. How on earth is an orchestral player supposed to nail dynamics whilst wearing ear protection? That's what the conductor is for, amongst other things. There are a plethora of good conductor and viola player jokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, ead said: There are a plethora of good conductor and viola player jokes. Just steer clear of the famous cello joke, dear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 how about trumpet players? the trumpet player in my band doesn't use earplugs because she says they don't allow her to hear well what's going on with her having to blow etc... I'm a little concerned because it does get loud at times. I always use mine... are there some kind of ear plugs that are better suited for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 hour ago, ead said: Sorry to be a tedious bore, but quite a few orchestral players wear earplugs (as do some conductors). Normally it's the 8dB attenuation filters which do just fine. I know a few players go for the 15dB filters (in and around the horn section mostly) which I use for band work. Not tediously boring at all. Very enlightening, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I've moved onto to stuffing my ears with jelly fruit and custard, as i'm a trifle deaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Be careful when the drums go Ba-Dum Tish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 58 minutes ago, Happy Jack said: Be careful when the drums go Ba-Dum Tish! Why, what happens after that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicbassman Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, fleabag said: I've moved onto to stuffing my ears with jelly fruit and custard, as i'm a trifle deaf Thankyou for your valued contribution, fleabag Maybe we should all heed this sensible advice from The Serendipity Singers: Edited March 31, 2018 by musicbassman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Sad for anyone to have hearing damage, but for him to blame others seems way off to me. Cheap good quality hearing protection is easy to come by and works well. I use some that cuts the volume but retains the sound spectrum and I play in loud rock bands. I can see this opening a huge can of worms re the ambulance chasing lawyers. If he thought the rehearsals were too loud he could have said something, or walked. His choice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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