Is this normal? Sandberg Zero-Fret Content

[dyerseve]

1 hour ago, ped said:

I’m going to start filing grooves into all my frets to get my action lower 😂

Umm why not just take out the frets if you really to have the lowest action...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Manton Customs]

Yeah, you'll see in that response from Sandberg that they say they use a higher zero fret. That is not the usual way, but it obviously works for them. Can't see the point to be honest, they're sort of using the zero fret as a metal nut. Why not start with the right size wire in the first place.

The usual procedure is to have the same wire as the rest, this gets levelled along with the rest of them. This ensures perfect action at the nut as it's the same height as the surrounding frets. Sandbergs way does not.

[Grangur]

Isn't the purpose of a zero fret to make an open string note sound the same as a fretted note? So, surely, to do this you don't want to be replicating a nut,

[dyerseve]

22 minutes ago, Grangur said:

Isn't the purpose of a zero fret to make an open string note sound the same as a fretted note? So, surely, to do this you don't want to be replicating a nut,

You aren't replicating the nut though as the zero fret will be made with the same material as the other frets. Hence why I've always thought Warwicks sound best with the brass nuts to match the frets.

[dyerseve]

1 hour ago, Manton Customs said:

Yeah, you'll see in that response from Sandberg that they say they use a higher zero fret. That is not the usual way, but it obviously works for them. Can't see the point to be honest, they're sort of using the zero fret as a metal nut. Why not start with the right size wire in the first place.

The usual procedure is to have the same wire as the rest, this gets levelled along with the rest of them. This ensures perfect action at the nut as it's the same height as the surrounding frets. Sandbergs way does not.

Funny, aren't you the same person that said no reputable manufacturer, luthier or tech would ever slot the zero fret. 

Maybe you don't consider Sandberg a reputable manufacturer.

Oh well, it doesn't seem to be affecting their sales or reviews much.

And having owned a Sandberg I can tell you they are one of the best playing and sounding instruments I've owned and the build quality is without question.

[ped]

20 minutes ago, dyerseve said:

Funny, aren't you the same person that said no reputable manufacturer, luthier or tech would ever slot the zero fret. 

Maybe you don't consider Sandberg a reputable manufacturer.

Oh well, it doesn't seem to be affecting their sales or reviews much.

And having owned a Sandberg I can tell you they are one of the best playing and sounding instruments I've owned and the build quality is without question.

Yeah but still doesn’t mean it makes any sense. I’d like to hear an explanation from Sandberg, because although it obviously works for them, it seriously makes no sense. But then who says everything has to?

[Grangur]

26 minutes ago, dyerseve said:

You aren't replicating the nut though as the zero fret will be made with the same material as the other frets. Hence why I've always thought Warwicks sound best with the brass nuts to match the frets.

That's exactly what I thought. The purpose of the zero fret is for the open note to resinate in the same way as a fretted note does.

[ped]

21 minutes ago, dyerseve said:

Maybe you don't consider Sandberg a reputable manufacturer.

A bit less snark would be nice, too

[dyerseve]

27 minutes ago, ped said:

A bit less snark would be nice, too

Sure but Manton Customs has called Sandberg's reputation in to question  with his comments and in the absence of a representative  from Sandberg being able to defend them then I feel I have to question  his sweeping and damning statement from his first post in the thread.

Surely that is only fair?

[Manton Customs]

1 hour ago, dyerseve said:

Funny, aren't you the same person that said no reputable manufacturer, luthier or tech would ever slot the zero fret. 

Maybe you don't consider Sandberg a reputable manufacturer.

Oh well, it doesn't seem to be affecting their sales or reviews much.

And having owned a Sandberg I can tell you they are one of the best playing and sounding instruments I've owned and the build quality is without question.

Yep, I'm happy to admit I'm wrong on that one part as Sandberg are doing just that, I'm rather surprised by it though and believe it really is not the best approach, or necessary if the correct wire was used in the first place. It's certainly not the normal procedure. If they wanted a bit extra clearance they could simply install a zero fret the correct size (i.e slightly larger, not so big it needs filing), or not level the zero fret when levelling the other frets. But perhaps there are some other things to be considered that we wouldn't be aware of when it's at a factory producing a large number of basses.

I really have nothing against Sandberg or zero frets at all, and apologise if I hurt anyone's feelings.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Manton Customs

[Grangur]

As the bass guitar has only been about for something like 50 years, isn't the whole thing still in the experimental stage?

So given this, Sandberg are entitled to experiment. They might be right. They might have it wrong. You can be sure they will do whatever is commercially successful, reliable and gives what they think is a good sound.

[Norris]

That's one thing I love about Basschat. You can never tell which thread is going to descend into handbags at 10 paces!

[Grangur]

The sad thing is, "handbags @ dawn" is becoming more commonplace these days. Too many are taking it all too seriously.

[Ghost_Bass]

The way i see it having a bit of grove cut in the zero fret will prevent the string from moving a bit to the sides (because it would be anchored by the nut further back without the grooves). In my mind this will help keep the tunning more accurate and stabilized. I don't think Sandberg are missing the trick here, in fact i think they may be on to something.

[ped]

8 minutes ago, Ghost_Bass said:

The way i see it having a bit of grove cut in the zero fret will prevent the string from moving a bit to the sides (because it would be anchored by the nut further back without the grooves). In my mind this will help keep the tunning more accurate and stabilized. I don't think Sandberg are missing the trick here, in fact i think they may be on to something.

Yeah a brass nut 😂

[cLepto-bass]

I think I am actually slightly more confused now than when I started the thread. 

[Ghost_Bass]

4 minutes ago, ped said:

Yeah a brass nut 😂

More like a hybrid, getting both plusses: the sound of a fretted note and the stability of a nut.

[EssentialTension]

I have always thought a 'zero fret' with grooves (i) to keep the strings in place and (ii) to set the string height ... was commonly called a 'nut'.

I have always thought a 'zero fret' was merely and exactly a fret at the zero position such that it set the pitch for the open string, while the 'nut', just behind, kept the strings in place and set the necessary string height.

How wrong could I be?

 

[Hellzero]

In fact, it's a zero nut. 

[rmorris]

On 4/2/2018 at 15:24, Ghost_Bass said:

The way i see it having a bit of grove cut in the zero fret will prevent the string from moving a bit to the sides (because it would be anchored by the nut further back without the grooves). In my mind this will help keep the tunning more accurate and stabilized. I don't think Sandberg are missing the trick here, in fact i think they may be on to something.

Yes there would appear to be the possibility of sideways movement.

But there's a lot of string tension holding it in place at that point and since the string is plucked / hit relatively far away from the nut / zero fret then there's little actual sideways force there (unlike a bridge without grooves for the grubscrews).

Theory aside I've never heard of it being a problem in use ?

[rmorris]

On 4/1/2018 at 13:58, Manton Customs said:

 

I really have nothing against Sandberg or zero frets at all, and apologise if I hurt anyone's feelings.

I say no need to apologise. You're properly entitled to an opinion and your generosity of expertise is appreciated here :-)

[wateroftyne]

I think Sandberg should put another filed zero fret behind the nut. Y'know, belt-and-braces. You can never have too many nuts on a neck, it seems.

Edited April 4, 2018 by wateroftyne

[Grangur]

23 minutes ago, rmorris said:

I say no need to apologise. You're properly entitled to an opinion and your generosity of expertise is appreciated here :-)

Agreed. Why should Sandberg be immune from critical questions? Other manufacturers get their fill, so why not Sandberg? In this case I think it's justified.

[dyerseve]

21 hours ago, Grangur said:

Agreed. Why should Sandberg be immune from critical questions? Other manufacturers get their fill, so why not Sandberg? In this case I think it's justified.

I dont think anyone should be immune from critical questions, including the people asking said questions. There is nothing wrong with robust debate.

FWIW I only have a problem when people make blanket statements and their commetns insinuate that Sandberg are not decent manufacturers and Sandberg are not able to reply to defend their position. That is all. No one has hurt anyone's feelings and eveyone is of course entitled to their opinion. However, when one bass builder potentially being critical of another they need to be able to defend their position especially in light of evidence contrary to their position.

peace

[rmorris]

I'm certain any contributions by Sandberg (or any other luthier / maufacturer) to the forums here would be appreciated as are Manton's.