discreet Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 7 hours ago, project_c said: We're in an era abundant with intellectual progress and tolerance, which is being stifled by an increasingly dumb, aggressive and intolerant ageing population, who wish it was still 1842. And thanks to the miracle of modern medicine, they're out there shuffling about in huge numbers, and they will live until they're 136 years old. So it's going to take a long time for attitudes to change significantly.... ...i often wonder why that generation has become so weird. They produced some of the most remarkable cultural artifacts and colossal artistic achievements of the 20th century, in a world that gave them a lifestyle that today's young people will only ever dream of, only to end up as a collective bunch of angry bitter old windbags. What has happened to the boomers? They used to be nice. I don't think it's an age thing. It's definitely a media thing, but that in itself doesn't fully explain it. What the f*cking hell is this crap? I'm a Boomer and strongly resent the implication that I'm an angry, bitter old windbag. Actually, I may well be angry and bitter and indeed a windbag, but only because I'm sick of endless injustice and blame being meted out to the poorest and most vulnerable people in society (by all age groups) when it should be aimed at those greedy, ruthless bastards who would aspire to wealth and power at any cost. Yes, I'm of 'that' generation. What of it? Are you really going to start blaming older people en masse for society's ills? We're not all swivel-eyed, prejudiced Mail-reading conservative Leave-voting nutcases. Shame on you for your sweeping (and totally inaccurate) ageist generalisations. I don't accept them and it's quite wrong to have made them. You might expect such comments on FB or YT, but not on BC. Very poor. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 1 hour ago, discreet said: What the f*cking hell is this crap? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzbass Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 of course it matters! Probably moreso in a band than in anything else. We are talking about a singer, a frontperson, that (possibly) looks like a woman but (possibly) sings like a man. Of course that matters. What songs are the band gonna play, female or male vocal based? Will the singer have a man's or woman's voice? it matters, jeebus you can't play bass in a Beatles tribute band unless you are left handed, so yes, appearances matter in music I worked with two men that trangenderred into women, with a year off work during the process. It is very hard to see them as a woman when you've worked closely with them as a man, it just IS. Different to meeting a trans person for the first time, it's much easier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project_c Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 9 hours ago, Woodinblack said: Genuinely? Wow, you must live in a fantastic place. Not really, its London and sometimes deepest darkest Kent, I never come across it. Additionally I've also noticed a surprising level of tolerance towards autism and mental health, something which in my youth would have been unheard of. If you stood out as different in any way in the suburbs of the 80s, you were pretty much dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steantval Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 9 hours ago, Al Krow said: I guess you must have just been unlucky that you weren't able to work out how to get the best from your female vocalists over the years. It happens with some blokes, for sure. That is not sexist, just a fact, right? The four females (two lead vocalists, sax/BVs and drummer) who comprise nearly half of the members of the two bands I'm in, are fantastic individuals, very talented and it's a real privilege for me to share my musical journey with them. I’m not sure if the content in your first paragraph is trying to be condescending, forgive me if it isn’t. We dealt with the females as we would have with any males, why should it be any different ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project_c Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 8 hours ago, discreet said: What the f*cking hell is this crap? I'm a Boomer and strongly resent the implication that I'm an angry, bitter old windbag. Actually, I may well be angry and bitter and indeed a windbag, but only because I'm sick of endless injustice and blame being meted out to the poorest and most vulnerable people in society (by all age groups) when it should be aimed at those greedy, ruthless bastards who would aspire to wealth and power at any cost. Yes, I'm of 'that' generation. What of it? Are you really going to start blaming older people en masse for society's ills? We're not all swivel-eyed, prejudiced Mail-reading conservative Leave-voting nutcases. Shame on you for your sweeping (and totally inaccurate) ageist generalisations. I don't accept them and it's quite wrong to have made them. You might expect such comments on FB or YT, but not on BC. Very poor. I said it was a generalization, but it's not inaccurate if you look at the data. But it certainly doesn't apply to everyone, especially in London where the whole thing is entirely different to the rest of the country. You're in the minority though, sadly. According to records, if it wasn't for the hordes of (Mail reading angry homophobic racist etc) boomers, we wouldn't be where we are. There most definitely is a generational divide there, even if it's not a comfortable thing to accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steantval Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, project_c said: I said it was a generalization, but it's not inaccurate if you look at the data. But it certainly doesn't apply to everyone, especially in London where the whole thing is entirely different to the rest of the country. You're in the minority though, sadly. According to records, if it wasn't for the hordes of (Mail reading angry homophobic racist etc) boomers, we wouldn't be where we are. There most definitely is a generational divide there, even if it's not a comfortable thing to accept. So the young generation have got everything correct ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 @steantval my issue here is that you seem have dismissed the possibility of working with ALL female vocalists based on bad experience with some and would no longer be interested in auditioning any females on that basis. That sucks. How is that different (taking an extreme example) to women regarding all men as potential rapists? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 11 hours ago, steantval said: Simple maths, if their readership is the older age group, the readers are nearer to death and circulation figures will continue to fall. Same with Readers Digest. Err... simple biology suggest that older people get replaced by more older people and younger people grow older Sadly, the Daily Heil is in no danger of bankruptcy. If anything, right-wing (and also far right) news media are currently on the march. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steantval Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 50 minutes ago, Al Krow said: @steantval my issue here is that you seem have dismissed the possibility of working with ALL female vocalists based on bad experience with some and would no longer be interested in auditioning any females on that basis. That sucks. How is that different (taking an extreme example) to women regarding all men as potential rapists? What do you mean it sucks. The type of bands I have played in over the last ten years and the genre of music we play, we have absolutely no requirement for for female vocalists - fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 2 hours ago, steantval said: What do you mean it sucks. The type of bands I have played in over the last ten years and the genre of music we play, we have absolutely no requirement for for female vocalists - fact. It seems like, as with most bands, you have a requirement for a vocalist, regardless of gender/sex. If you're really having trouble with female vocalists, maybe the problem is you and your band-mates, and not all women. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickster Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, project_c said: I said it was a generalization, but it's not inaccurate if you look at the data. But it certainly doesn't apply to everyone, especially in London where the whole thing is entirely different to the rest of the country. You're in the minority though, sadly. According to records, if it wasn't for the hordes of (Mail reading angry homophobic racist etc) boomers, we wouldn't be where we are. There most definitely is a generational divide there, even if it's not a comfortable thing to accept. Yeah, that generalisation thing you keep doing...the old / the over 25s / the brexiters / the boomers / the Mail readers etc...maybe best not to do that, especially when the point of your OP seemed to be to decry what you claim is a lack of tolerance towards other lifestyles / viewpoints in evidence nowadays...you just end up substituting one set of lazy crap stereotypes for another... Edited April 2, 2018 by mickster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, MiltyG565 said: It seems like, as with most bands, you have a requirement for a vocalist, regardless of gender/sex. If you're really having trouble with female vocalists, maybe the problem is you and your band-mates, and not all women. Erm... I don't think @steantval is having trouble with female vocalists per se. That's implying a situation which may not exist and also implying that he and his band have a problem with women in general, which clearly isn't the case. Maybe I read it wrong, but it seems to me he's saying a female voice just isn't suitable for the genre of music his band is playing. Which is fair enough. You wouldn't entertain the idea of a male singer for a Tina Turner tribute, would you..? Though come to think of it, that would certainly get you noticed... Edited April 2, 2018 by discreet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steantval Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 35 minutes ago, MiltyG565 said: It seems like, as with most bands, you have a requirement for a vocalist, regardless of gender/sex. If you're really having trouble with female vocalists, maybe the problem is you and your band-mates, and not all women. What a response. I didn’t say it was all women, we just had bad experiences with all the ones we tried and some were great vocalists, we decided after those issues we would only go down the male vocalist route and base our songs around that. I played in a Free tribute band for several years, you tell me how a female vocalist would have fronted the band? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, project_c said: I said it was a generalization, but it's not inaccurate if you look at the data... As a Cynic, I'm generally wary of 'data', and the little shown in this topic even more so, as the questions posed seem (to me...) to be biased from the start, and we've no idea as to geographic nor demographic spread. Someone once said 'there are lies, damned lies and statistics.' It could have been me; I don't buy into 'data' of the sort without a great deal more background information. Where, then, do I get my opinions from..? Several decades on the planet with my own experiences and observations, coupled with sources I trust, rightly or wrongly, plus the over-riding factor of my own conscience. That'll do me (he said, with smug complacency ...) Edited April 2, 2018 by Dad3353 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 Just to recap.... I started the thread by saying I'd never seen an advert by a transgender singer before and I wished them well. It's disappointing how some people have exchanged such harsh words in the resultant posts. The joys of the internet...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project_c Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 7 hours ago, steantval said: So the young generation have got everything correct ? No, of course not. See below. The younger generation look up to the older generations to set an example though, and if that example is a negative one, then it has a negative impact on the way things progress. 19 hours ago, project_c said: As I said, it's a generalisation, I don't for one second think young people are blameless. ...but of course, more importantly, we all know the demographic divide of the recent 'big' thing we all voted on, after which attitudes (and brains) regressed and we got plunged back into the dark ages. Not a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project_c Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Dad3353 said: As a Cynic, I'm generally wary of 'data', and the little shown in this topic even more so, as the questions posed seem (to me...) to be biased from the start, and we've no idea as to geographic nor demographic spread. Someone once said 'there are lies, damned lies and statistics.' It could have been me; I don't buy into 'data' of the sort without a great deal more background information. Where, then, do I get my opinions from..? Several decades on the planet with my own experiences and observations, coupled with sources I trust, rightly or wrongly, plus the over-riding factor of my own conscience. That'll do me (he said, with smug complacency ...) That's certainly fair when it comes to many opinion polls, and in many cases you're right to point out they are biased, but the stats about tolerance levels, changing attitudes to sexuality, generational divides and votes etc are out there for all to see, there's no mystery to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 24 minutes ago, yorks5stringer said: I started the thread by saying I'd never seen an advert by a transgender singer before and I wished them well. It's disappointing how some people have exchanged such harsh words in the resultant posts. I wouldn't worry too much about it, even though it really is all your fault. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petebassist Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 On 4/1/2018 at 12:40, project_c said: She shouldn't have to, but 2018 is not exactly a time of tolerance and human compassion. We're in an era of intellectual regression. Actually it's not quite as simple as that. We're in an era abundant with intellectual progress and tolerance, which is being stifled by an increasingly dumb, aggressive and intolerant ageing population, who wish it was still 1842. And thanks to the miracle of modern medicine, they're out there shuffling about in huge numbers, and they will live until they're 136 years old. So it's going to take a long time for attitudes to change significantly. I'd argue that we live in a liberal and open minded country, and we just keep becoming more liberal and open minded. Comparatively of course. I also think it's more to do with culture than age, and some cultures are more traditional than others regardless of age. Oh and it's not that new is it? In 1977 when I was a would-be young punk, transgender Wayne Country and the Electric chairs had their famous single out called 'F#ck Off'. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 4 hours ago, discreet said: You wouldn't entertain the idea of a male singer for a Tina Turner tribute, would you..? Though come to think of it, that would certainly get you noticed... I certainly would! How many guys are out there screeching their way through Maria Carey songs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Is there a prize we can award for the most dispiriting, negative, unpleasant topic of the month? Not the OP, not the subject matter. But the blend of arrogance, condescension, generalisation and pigeon-holing that has been attracted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, Happy Jack said: Is there a prize we can award for the most dispiriting, negative, unpleasant topic of the month? Not the OP, not the subject matter. But the blend of arrogance, condescension, generalisation and pigeon-holing that has been attracted. That's a tall order on the second day of the month, there's plenty of time for worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 I've never attached a specific gender to a cover version, if it sounds good it's good. OK an actual tribute act might be different but only if that's what the punters were expecting. I'd have no issue doing a Free cover with our female singer, none at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Stereotypes..? They're so passé; Shirley no-one these days holds those ancient views on gender and such nowadays..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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