solo4652 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) I play in a pretty decent pub 'n' party band. Pop, soft-rock, soul, funk stuff. 5-piece line-up; lead guitar, lead singer + keys, electronic drums, rhythm guitarist/guitar synth, both guitarists on BV's, myself on bass. Band leader insists on using 4 PA speakers - two at stage rear on stands, two out front on stands. Fronts carry mostly vocals and keys. Rears (including huge subwoofer) carry drums, rhythm guitar + guitar synth. Myself and lead guitar don't go through PA - we use our own backline. I tried going through the PA recently, primarily to reduce the amount of stuff on stage, but I just seemed to constantly clash with the bass drum, resulting in mush. Inevitably, I usually end up standing right in front of one of the rear PA speakers, and I can't hear myself think. I've repeatedly asked for the volume to be turned down, but to no avail. I'm now having to use ear plugs which I don't really want to do. I don't profess to know a great deal about PA systems, so could somebody help me to understand why we need 4 speakers, please? The two speakers at the rear of the stage really ramp up the on-stage volume to (for me,) unacceptable levels. I've played in many pub covers bands, and this is the first one that uses 4 PA speakers. Steve Edited April 3, 2018 by solo4652 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Sounds like overkill to me - what's the quality of the PA gear at the moment? I've found it's the same as backline: the better the quality, the less (and smaller) boxes needed. We have a sub and two 12 tops on stands (RCF ARTs), and we're seriously considering moving to just two ART15 tops and ditching the sub. We're a 3-piece (mostly, but we do go out as a four piece now and again), and we're all through the PA with in-ears; no backline. PA speakers at the back of the band sounds odd... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Sounds like a very odd (and pointless) arrangement. IME you either put the whole band through the PA or you have backline and put vox only through the PA. Your arrangement appears designed to give you the worst of all solutions. Has your 'band leader' explained his reasoning? And will he listen to reason? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingPrawn Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Id agree with Muz. Sounds like there's just too much going on. its the quality of the cabs etc that matter, not the quantity. id hate speakers at the back of the stage. It just means every mic on stage is picking up bleed from all over the place. I've recently moved from two RCF tops and sub to just Two RCF 15's full range speakers. Its made life so much easier and everything through the PA ( including electronic kit). were a 4 piece and really only use our rigs for onstage sound. I'm on the verge of just using my Tone hammer straight into the PA and using floor wedge as the monitor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) The PA system is brand new. I don't know the brand or details but, knowing our band leader, it won't be rubbish. My rig is Hartke LH 500 through a 210 cabinet rated at 700 Watts, placed behind me. Last night I was approaching max volume on the head and bass. Ringing in ears this morning. I've emailed band leader this morning to ask why we need 4 speakers, including a 15" subwoofer at stage rear. I've asked if we can just use the front speakers from now on. We already have stage monitors. I've asked before and nothing's changed. Off to Decathlon now to buy some ear plugs designed for use by clay-pigeon shooters. Shouldn't be necessary, in my opinion. Edited April 3, 2018 by solo4652 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Is it possible that he's just doing this because he can, rather than because it actually achieves anything useful? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingPrawn Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I think your guy is missing the whole point. The stage is where the sound is controlled and at comfortable levels. You shouldn't be competing to be heard on stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Ringing ears are damaged ears - get some attenuators right now... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 It sounds like a band that I'd be leaving if it's that loud. What do the pubs and audience think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Dean Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I use a Peavey 2 x 600w PA one internal amp powers two 12" EV tops for out front & the other powers 2 x 8" EVs for monitors , For larger venues I have 2 x EV powered subs & use the EV 8" as tops & the 12" for monitors .quite a light & flexible system . I can't see the point in subs in a small pub . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingPrawn Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I've seen too many bands with one guy and his EGO PA system. Not good for anyone involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I`m unclear as to why there are PA speakers at stage-rear - backline for on-stage sound, PA for out front sound, monitors so band can hear vox. Don`t see the point of this. Can see why you might use 4 speakers out front, two floor standing, with two on poles/stands immediately above, but stage-rear makes no sense to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Dean Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I've done a gig in a pub where the landlord made it clear that they didn't want a loud band , So I put one 12" behind us for monitoring & it worked really well & save setting up monitors . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Subwoofer behind you on stage...in a pub? Sack the PA man. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 If you've an electronic kit then really it's possible to play at a volume level to suit the pub , acoustic drums played in anger are too much for most pubs imo As other have said it's more about the quality than the quantity , we've done with 4 speakers before but with 2 pointed back as floor monitors , 4 as FOH sound does sound OTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Sounds like the rears are being used as monitors of a sort? We have a four speaker system too - two tops sitting on top of two subs and all are front of stage ahead of the band. Everyone goes through PA. We don't play too loudly but this setup reduces on stage volume and also allows us to balance the overall front of house experience. I can't see anything wrong with what you have in your PA setup, just how it's being used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevsy71 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 1 hour ago, solo4652 said: Band leader insists on using 4 PA speakers - two at stage rear on stands, two out front on stands. Fronts carry mostly vocals and keys. Rears (including huge subwoofer) carry drums, rhythm guitar + guitar synth. I'd assume in that setup there is (1) frequency overlap between the front and back speakers and hence (2) interference as the soundwaves from the rear pair meet the front pair, which is difficult to control. So likely to be a sub-optimal mix for the audience. It also seems like pub overkill: we've managed 30+ pub gigs using a budget gear4music speaker pair (12s + horn) on stands and a humble Behringer mixer . Vocals, rhythym guitar, keyboard through PA, drums unmicced (although sometimes we run the kick through an old 1x15 bass combo ), sax unmicced with a reflection monitor on a micstand, harmonica through a combo, bass through 2x15 (but very rarely cranked). Floor monitors for vocals, keyboard, guitar only. And it's an easy tear-down for the rainy car park afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 1 hour ago, solo4652 said: Off to Decathlon now to buy some ear plugs designed for use by clay-pigeon shooters. Shouldn't be necessary, in my opinion. Steve, agree with everything mentioned so far. It is massive overkill and will be causing you a lot of problems having speakers at the rear. As far as earplugs go, get a pair of proper Audio ones not the type shooters use. Alpine Musicsafe or Elacin er 25 are a good starter. What they do is filter out the harmful frequencies and still allow you to hear what is going on. I suspect the "shotgun" type ones are just designed to block out as much noise as possible. It's not a bad idea to use earplugs anyway regardless of whether you feel you need them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Happy Jack said: Is it possible that he's just doing this because he can, rather than because it actually achieves anything useful? Yes, I think that's part of it. Band leader is very experienced - used to run a pro level function band in France for 10 years. That's experience I don't have, so I'm gathering information before having a serious moan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalDeep Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Does this band leader perhaps have a smaller manhood than he would like, and is compensating by deafening everyone and ruining spines? I think this is definitely overkill. I have played a variety of venues and events in 5 years running a successful events band made up of session dudes, all of these Ive done with 2 high quality 12' tops, and then backline to suit venue (often none, DI'd everything). If you NEED anything bigger than that then Id argue jut hire in a rig for that specific gig. Monitoring and stage noise can always an issue with these things unless you look into In Ear Monitoring (expensive but worth it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Ridiculous. That is all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 26 minutes ago, BassBunny said: Steve, agree with everything mentioned so far. It is massive overkill and will be causing you a lot of problems having speakers at the rear. As far as earplugs go, get a pair of proper Audio ones not the type shooters use. Alpine Musicsafe or Elacin er 25 are a good starter. What they do is filter out the harmful frequencies and still allow you to hear what is going on. I suspect the "shotgun" type ones are just designed to block out as much noise as possible. It's not a bad idea to use earplugs anyway regardless of whether you feel you need them. Thanks BB. I've just ordered the Alpines - should have them for this weekend's gig. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 36 minutes ago, solo4652 said: Yes, I think that's part of it. Band leader is very experienced - used to run a pro level function band in France for 10 years. That's experience I don't have, so I'm gathering information before having a serious moan. But all that means is that they have 10 years of setting things up in a less than ideal manner. Low frequencies on stage leaking into the open mics, phasing isssues etc... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I ran PA systems in several bands over a period of around 12 years, which I also hired out (with myself as engineer) to various organisations from time to time. I've never heard of this type of configuration; using upstage speakers for FOH reinforcement makes no sense to me at all (not to mention the problem of onstage noise levels that others have already referred to). Does the 'PA' guy use a surround sound system at home? Just a thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 16 minutes ago, solo4652 said: Thanks BB. I've just ordered the Alpines - should have them for this weekend's gig. If the don't arrive in time Steve, give me a shout. I've a brand new pair of Elacins that are my spares and we can work something out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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