la bam Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Hi all, Im looking at another set up using my tech21 flyrig as a preamp and wondering what compact A/B amps are out there around 500w+ that have send/return fx loops that bypass the amps own preamp? Preferably newish (under 5 years old). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) Sorry I can't resist and it's probably not what you want to hear. Why Class AB? you probably think there is a 'digital' sound? Honestly you won't be able to hear a difference, all else being equal. Your bass amp is made of three parts, a pre amp that shapes the sound, the power amp stage that makes the watts and a power supply that... supplies the power for the amp. The two things that primarilydetermine the sound of the amp at high power are the pre amp shaping and whether the power supply is adequate for the job. I'm not telling you all amps are equal, just that the class of the power amp isn't the critical factor. You specify a compact, and I'm assuming lightweight amp. They only achieve this if they have a switch mode power supply. Anything with a big and heavy old style copper wire transformer is going to be big and heavy by definition. If you have a lightweight switch mode power supply then you might as well have an efficient switch mode amplifier. If there was a difference in heft (there I said it) between the old heavy amps and the new switch mode amps a lot of that is down to poorer power supplies than the more mature designs of the old class AB amps. There are later models of class D with decent supplies. I don't know of anything with an old heavy power supply and a class AB power amp but maybe someone else will come along with a suggestion. It doesn't matter, audition a range of amps, if the only ones that sound the way you want are heavyweights you'll have to suck up the job of carrying them but I think you should give the newer amps an audition. Just think, if you play a big venue your amp is just a stage monitor, the bass you hear at big concerts comes from the PA and that will certainly be Class D. You'll never get that big a sound with your bass stack. Actually I've just noticed you wanted to bypass the pre amp, why not just buy a PA amp, run it straight off whatever you are already using, your sound but louder. Cheaper than a bass amp with a pre amp you don't want to use anyway. Edited April 10, 2018 by Phil Starr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bam Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) Thanks. I have had several class d amps and currently have a markbass evo and i love it, but the lack of a unaffected line out and the fact i cant bypass the amp modelling and pre amp may be an issue. We are getting more festival and walk in jobs, so im looking for dialling in my sound on a flyrig then either using my own amp or stage amp to power it but each time the pa gets the same flyrig sound. Ive tried my backup an ashdown lg1000 bypassing the pre amp and the sound is great, punchy as hell, but it has whine when over 10 oclock dial for volume which i believe was part of the amps initial issues. Ive no problem with class d, and youre right, its just for monitoring, but just wondering what is out there? As for pa amps etc - they are heavy and dont have jack inputs etc so immediately become more hassle, but if the premise is right, i just need a good power amp for bass. Edited April 10, 2018 by la bam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Try the Peavey IPR 1600 it's light as any lightweight bass amp and has combi sockets on the inputs. Mine have been 100% reliable and from memory its about 400W RMS into 8ohms 1600 bridged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bam Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 Cheers phil. Id forgot about combi sockets. Thatd make things easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Matrix make power amps that have a switch mode supply and a class A/B input especially for musicians. However Class D amps are being refined all the time and are now a mature technology. I remember the first solid state amps, they were poor but no one would deny the quality of Trace Elliot power stages. I believe we are now in that stage with Class D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 9 hours ago, Chienmortbb said: Matrix make power amps that have a switch mode supply and a class A/B input especially for musicians. However Class D amps are being refined all the time and are now a mature technology. I remember the first solid state amps, they were poor but no one would deny the quality of Trace Elliot power stages. I believe we are now in that stage with Class D. True, but that has a lot to do with the fact that so many of the major manufacturers use B&O ICEPower modules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bam Posted April 12, 2018 Author Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) Would something like this be good? Running in bridge mode? http://cpc.farnell.com/crown-audio/xls-1002/power-amplifier-2-x-350w-class/dp/DP34448?mckv=s7n816wp1_dm|pcrid|224680541983|kword||match||plid||pid|DP34448|&CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-SHOPPING&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIycOT96C02gIV77ftCh08nwX_EAQYAiABEgJSvfD_BwE Edited April 12, 2018 by la bam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 16 hours ago, Dan Dare said: True, but that has a lot to do with the fact that so many of the major manufacturers use B&O ICEPower modules. Agreed but there are other good Class D modules, Pascal, Powersoft as well as some far east companies like Connex and BoYoHo (it really is a company). There are also single chip solutions from TI .ST and NXP plus semi discrete solutions from IR if anyone wants to design and build from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 2 hours ago, la bam said: Would something like this be good? Running in bridge mode? http://cpc.farnell.com/crown-audio/xls-1002/power-amplifier-2-x-350w-class/dp/DP34448?mckv=s7n816wp1_dm|pcrid|224680541983|kword||match||plid||pid|DP34448|&CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-SHOPPING&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIycOT96C02gIV77ftCh08nwX_EAQYAiABEgJSvfD_BwE Crown (formerly Amcron) have a good reputation but I do not know that particular model. In fact Crown made the first really high powerd amplifier back in the 70s, the DC300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzjames Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I wouldn’t discount slightly lower powered AB amps. I had a Warwick hellborg 500 power amp and it was the best amplifier I’ve ever used. It slayed everything! However it was almost too heavy to use, and as a result I sold it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 The GSS Baby Sumo? 600W or 1000W and around £400. I've had a few bits of Didier's stuff and it's all brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 On 12/04/2018 at 08:54, la bam said: Would something like this be good? Running in bridge mode? http://cpc.farnell.com/crown-audio/xls-1002/power-amplifier-2-x-350w-class/dp/DP34448?mckv=s7n816wp1_dm|pcrid|224680541983|kword||match||plid||pid|DP34448|&CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-SHOPPING&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIycOT96C02gIV77ftCh08nwX_EAQYAiABEgJSvfD_BwE Lovely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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