Who Uses a Metronome on Stage?

[xgsjx]

1 hour ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

I can see that being quite effective as a stage prop! (Which album would she have been touring then?)

I can see that working for certain styles of music, but I can only imagine it would have a horrible effect on more "old-school" rock or blues groups...that said, I've definitely worked with a few drummers in those genres who would have benefitted from a bit more practice with a click! (Or from paying more attention to their bass player...)

It was the Volta tour in Las Vegas (December 2008 IIRC).  She did a lot of stuff from previous albums too.  Desired Constellations was awesome.  It was played on a reactable table synth. 

[CameronJ]

1 hour ago, Japhet said:

Our drummer can count a song in one tempo and then start playing it at a completely different one. Add to that an ability to slow down to a virtual standstill at various points - you get the picture. Drives me effing nuts at times and it's incredibly difficult to keep going at the right tempo, especially since he doesn't seem to notice. When we listen to recordings he'll often say 'We slowed down a bit there'. 'I've told him over and over it's not 'We'. Rant over.

I recall a charity gig I did a year or two ago with a couple of friends. The setup was me vocal looping beats and bass lines with my digital hardware, Friend A on acoustic guitar/odd vocal harmonies and Friend B on lead vocals. At the only rehearsal we had prior to the gig, I set up a small monitor aimed at Friend A’s head so he could hear everything I was doing and have the added security of a loud click.

It was like pulling teeth. We’d get a third of the way through a song and he’d be woefully ahead of the beat...without realising was doing it until I’d call a halt to said song on the grounds that it was unbearable. Each time his response was, “Mate, I think your gear keeps speeding up?”

The tragedy is that he’s possibly the best rhythm guitarist I know in terms of chordal theory and proficiency around the fretboard, but almost definitely the worst rhythm guitarist I know in terms of his ability to actually maintain rhythm. The clue is in the name. His tendency to push tempo is frustrating to the point that at times I’ve found myself opting out of collaborating with him, especially if I’m singing lead vocal for a song that requires a sustained low tempo.

He’s since admitted awareness of his tendency to speed up and his justification for it is that “pushing the tempo a bit keeps it exciting and gets the audience going.”

Not when I’m singing a mournful ballad!!!

[discreet]

15 minutes ago, CameronJ said:

...he’s possibly the best rhythm guitarist I know in terms of chordal theory and proficiency, but the worst in terms of his ability to actually maintain rhythm...

This is a lot more common than you'd think. The responsibility for keeping time is shared by the whole band, it's not all up to the drummer. It's difficult enough finding people who can play (and aren't nuts), but finding people who can play, who aren't nuts AND have natural rhythm, great feel and good timing is a real mission. But this is one of the main differences between a really good band and the thousands of bands out there who are, er... not quite as good.

Edited April 19, 2018 by discreet

[itsmedunc]

When the band can turn up on time, I'll then consider a metronome! 

[chris_b]

I've played with a couple of drummers who used a digital BPM clicker thing to get the count in right. No click after that.

I've met the usual start too fast guys (but thankfully not played with speed up or slow down guys for a long time). IMO the clicker worked well, starting off at the right speed always makes the number work better.

[BrunoBass]

Our drummer should. He has a tendency to speed up during fills sometimes; it’s barely perceptible but I notice, it would help him.

[BrunoBass]

4 hours ago, Japhet said:

Our drummer can count a song in one tempo and then start playing it at a completely different one. Add to that an ability to slow down to a virtual standstill at various points - you get the picture. Drives me effing nuts at times and it's incredibly difficult to keep going at the right tempo, especially since he doesn't seem to notice. When we listen to recordings he'll often say 'We slowed down a bit there'. 'I've told him over and over it's not 'We'. Rant over.

Absolutely the same experience for me. You’re not our guitarist are you?!

[xgsjx]

It's our singist that could do with a metronome.  He could also do with learning to count beats & bars & maybe learn to sing too.  

[EBS_freak]

3 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

It's our singist that could do with a metronome.  He could also do with learning to count beats & bars & maybe learn to sing too.  

Has he got his own mic?

[xgsjx]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

Has he got his own mic?

I don't think so.  The guitard brought him along as there's a shortage of singers (& musicians) round here.

In fairness, he's looking at getting singing lessons.

[steantval]

I personally use a Laughing Gnome  

[neilp]

I use a metronome all the time in practice. Slow practice is a huge part of my practice routine, comes from way back in RCM days. There was a massive emphasis on practicing things "right", so practice at a speed where you can play correctly, then up the tempo until you can't, then back off from there. I have NEVER used a metronome on stage for any performance, ever. Why would you?

[SpondonBassed]

14 hours ago, xgsjx said:

It's our singist that could do with a metronome.  He could also do with learning to count beats & bars & maybe learn to sing too.  

Perhaps best not to let him have access to a tambourine then.

 

[SpondonBassed]

8 hours ago, neilp said:

I use a metronome all the time in practice. Slow practice is a huge part of my practice routine, comes from way back in RCM days. There was a massive emphasis on practicing things "right", so practice at a speed where you can play correctly, then up the tempo until you can't, then back off from there. I have NEVER used a metronome on stage for any performance, ever. Why would you?

As a bassist, I wouldn't.

As part of a rhythm section I would have no objection to working with a drummer who uses one for the count-in.  In fact, I'd feel better in that situation.  I think it's important to know that you are on tempo, even if you are consistent and accurate on your own.

As an advanced motorcyclist, I could ride to speed limits to within a unit or two of any of the national speed limits without looking at my speedometer.

Engine vibes and string vibes are similar in that you can feel their frequency and regulate accordingly.  The difference being that you wont get unwelcome attention from plod for drumming without a clock.

It's nice if a band gels and tempo is never an issue.  Getting there is the trick.

[scalpy]

A studio drummer I know says if the click- “Ah, the fifth member of the band no one likes and can’t play in time.”

[xgsjx]

23 minutes ago, scalpy said:

A studio drummer I know says if the click- “Ah, the fifth member of the band no one likes and can’t play in time.”

I know a few drummers like that.  They'll start a song at quick 4/4 tempo & by the end the song, we're playing a slow shuffle!  

[casapete]

20 hours ago, CameronJ said:

The tragedy is that he’s possibly the best rhythm guitarist I know in terms of chordal theory and proficiency around the fretboard, but almost definitely the worst rhythm guitarist I know in terms of his ability to actually maintain rhythm.

I think since the old named 'rhythm' and 'lead' players gradually morphed into being 'guitarists' there has been a steady decline in the importance of being able to play chordal parts/non solos at the right tempo.

We auditioned for guitarists for a band a few years ago, and out of maybe 8 players, only 2 or 3 could play the songs properly all the way through and in time. 

The others fudged around the chords and the tempo until the solo and then thought they'd impress us by playing it overly distorted/widdly and loud.

Needless to say they didn't get the gig. 

 

Edited April 20, 2018 by casapete

[claptonite]

I do - it's the one in my head! 

[bazzbass]

On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 17:27, Dankology said:

Our drummer *is* a metronome.

 

His tempo is so consistent I was recently able to mix and match bits of the multitrack from three different takes of the same song. Was impressed. 

THIS

If your drummer needs a metronome to keep time, find a real drummer

 

If YOU have to keep time for the drummer, find a real drummer

 

it's as simple as that, really.

[bassjim]

Ages ago I was in a band where the drummer had a small metronome with a dial on it. On his set list he noted the correct tempos for each song and just prior to any song he would select the tempo , hold it to his ear and then count in off that.

Worked every time and as he was a great player (still is) would keep the tempo steady very much throughout every tune.

A great idea if you have tempo problems. I couldn't agree more that most tunes work at optimum tempos.  I've worked with a drummer with very bad tempo and time keeping problems. Might of well as just shout "go!" at the start of every tune and hope for the best. Which we did for a while. And then we sacked him.

[discreet]

10 minutes ago, bassjim said:

I've worked with a drummer with very bad tempo and time keeping problems. Might of well as just shout "go!" at the start of every tune and hope for the best. Which we did for a while. And then we sacked him.

Good. I sometimes think that people take up the drums because they're hopeless at everything else, but still want to be in a band. The number of drummers I've had the misfortune to play with who really have not the first clue is astonishing. To do anything well is hard - to think that one instrument is inherently easier than another is a total fallacy.

[bassjim]

I call them " people who own drum kits".  

Edited April 20, 2018 by bassjim

[phil.c60]

1 hour ago, bazzbass said:

 

If your drummer needs a metronome to keep time, find a real drummer

 

If YOU have to keep time for the drummer, find a real drummer

 

it's as simple as that, really.

My current drummer has been known to use one, not all the time, just sometimes.and he's a real drummer. If we decide that the feel for the song is 131 or 129 or whatever,  we (and he) will go with that. On a gig, if I asked you to count in one song at 131 and the next at 129 could you do it? Reliably, and consistently? And then keep to it through the song? You are also the rhythm section after all. I don't think I could.  In fact, I'm sure I couldn't so I let him get us going and then we may push or pull it a bit but it keeps us honest.

I was in a band for a very short time, several rehearsals and one gig with a drummer who could keep a perfect tempo. Trouble was it was only one. Flat out. When I kept insisting that it was too fast (the singer was having to sing some songs so fastt was unintelligible) his response was "We're a rock band". He was also way to loud, to which his response was "we're a rock band".You get the picture. So did I. I left.

[bassjim]

If electronic drum kits were the norm I think we would all benefit.  Less volume would do a lot of good for everyone and I seriously would include tempos and time keeping in that. Most electronic kits also have a headphone out thingy that also sends a click from the controller bit /thingy.

The trouble is having a drummer open to the mentality that like a bass or guitar you buy not just the instrument but an amp, pedals, leads ect. that all contribute to the end sonic result. And that's down to you and  not the rest of the band to supply it.

Yes they feel different to an acoustic kit but then so does an acoustic bass or guitar.  ..................................runs and hides behind sofa...........

 

 

[neilp]

A lot of the tempo issues are down to rehearsals. If you stop when the song is too fast/slow and insist on starting at the correct tempo, you'll all get used to it and find it easier. Then all you have to do is concentrate and listen....