Who Uses a Metronome on Stage?

[scalpy]

21 minutes ago, neilp said:

A lot of the tempo issues are down to rehearsals. If you stop when the song is too fast/slow and insist on starting at the correct tempo, you'll all get used to it and find it easier. Then all you have to do is concentrate and listen....

 

[KevB]

I've had to stop the new (to me) band  in rehearsal recently as we decided it would be good to take 2 songs to do back to back with no real gap as the opening salvo. It sounds slick when done properly but the problem is that it means the 2nd song (which used to be later in their set) needs to be speeded up slightly to match the tempo of the opening song and it's taking the drummer a few goes to break out of the tempo he's used on that song for last couple of years. It's coming on though. I've never used a metronome as i tend to learn new covers by playing against the recorded originals and then adapting depending what the drummer in th erelevant band is doing. I think my timing generally is fairly decent, I don't recall it ever cropping up as an issue in previous bands. It does surprise how much work some people I've played with seem to have to put in on this though so I count myself fairly lucky. I've never done any seriously weird time sig stuff though. One of the guitarists suggested we have a go at Soundgarden's 'Spoonman' the other week but me and the drummer looked at each other and said 'that will take quite a while to nail you know' ;-)

[lozkerr]

On 19/04/2018 at 08:25, SpondonBassed said:

Standing alone and with no other responsibilities than to keep time, I am optimistic that I will use it more than the others.  My tuner need only work as a tuner and its nested functions can rest in peace forever.  There are no wires or batteries, just a winder for the mainspring in the mechanism.  I have removed the excuses that bundled devices allow me to get out of jail with, so to speak.

I am optimistic that I will get more use from this metronome than the others.  It's also a lovely bit of kit if all I ever do is look at it.

Yup, I get that completely. I have two metronomes - a silly bleeping box that lives in my gig bag for emergencies, plus a clockwork one that I keep in the music room. That gets used a lot. Even when I've got my cans on or am playing louder than usual, being able to follow the pendulum helps keep me in time, even when I'm playing off a score and watching it from the corner of my eye.

I got used to that when I played the trumpet; inevitably the blare would drown the click, but following the movement soon became second nature. I used to put it on a shelf above my music stand, so I could see both at the same time.

Clockwork metronomes rock!

[SpondonBassed]

3 hours ago, bazzbass said:

THIS

If your drummer needs a metronome to keep time, find a real drummer

 

If YOU have to keep time for the drummer, find a real drummer

 

it's as simple as that, really.

When you write it like that.. it really does seem that simple.  In that you are correct.

In actual fact and for someone at my level it is not.  I can't afford to turn down anyone who offers to beat the skins and jam with me.  Good bad or average, it is all necessary experience.

Of course, it's best to get all of this done before taking a performance to the public with an expectation of it getting booked again, never mind wanting it to pay for itself.

At this point I should say that the count-in is where I'd expect a metronome to be of value.  I don't think that it would be of use once the song is underway.

So, keeping time is not at issue.  Starting in the correct tempo is.

[xgsjx]

It must be great to live in an area with an abundance of musicians of various levels of skill to choose from.

[SpondonBassed]

7 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

It must be great to live in an area with an abundance of musicians of various levels of skill to choose from.

I was lucky enough to live in a place like that from the age of 11 'til 14.

We owned a village pub just south of the border in Ireland.  On Sundays we'd put on small bands and call it Cèilidh Night.  I would usually nosey around during the set-up.  I met some real characters and more than a couple of family bands.  We had some nights where I would be sent out to collect glasses because the pub was rammed and I was little enough to get around.

Then outside of that we had lots of neighbours who would variously play fiddle, bodhrán, tin whistle, guitar at the drop of a hat.

Good times.

[No lust in Jazz]

Personally I don't.

Our drummer uses a Roland SPD-SX pad - which allows him to route a click (of his choice) to headphones - it is awesome. 

I find some of the drummer jokes tedious - in a band you should be able to keep reasonable time - I've found  by far the worst culprits are vocalists

[xgsjx]

It's the vocalist who's the worst timekeeper in the band I'm in, though in fairness, he's not really a musician.  I don't think he counts bars at all.

 

[bassjim]

51 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

It must be great to live in an area with an abundance of musicians of various levels of skill to choose from.

I thought about this. Actually where I live and the surrounding areas, there really is. From the hopeless to the excellent. Amature to professional. Its all down here on the south coast.

 

[phil.c60]

Don't forget the nutters and the oddballs, Jim. There's quite a few of those as well......

 

[bazzbass]

On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 21:13, phil.c60 said:

My current drummer has been known to use one, not all the time, just sometimes.and he's a real drummer. If we decide that the feel for the song is 131 or 129 or whatever,  we (and he) will go with that. On a gig, if I asked you to count in one song at 131 and the next at 129 could you do it? Reliably, and consistently? And then keep to it through the song? You are also the rhythm section after all. I don't think I could.  In fact, I'm sure I couldn't so I let him get us going and then we may push or pull it a bit but it keeps us honest.

I was in a band for a very short time, several rehearsals and one gig with a drummer who could keep a perfect tempo. Trouble was it was only one. Flat out. When I kept insisting that it was too fast (the singer was having to sing some songs so fastt was unintelligible) his response was "We're a rock band". He was also way to loud, to which his response was "we're a rock band".You get the picture. So did I. I left.

it's music not maths, no need to be that precise. Use your FEEL, the audience will appreciate it

[SpondonBassed]

21 minutes ago, bazzbass said:

it's music not maths, no need to be that precise. Use your FEEL, the audience will appreciate it

I'm not entirely happy with the notion of feeling up my audience.  I don't know where they've been.

[phil.c60]

13 hours ago, bazzbass said:

it's music not maths, no need to be that precise. Use your FEEL, the audience will appreciate it

You clearly didn't read the line that said "if we decide that the feel for the song is...." I think that's got "feel" covered. Then he needs to count us in reliably when we're gigging. Forget the maths, try literacy.

[bazzbass]

Mate, I only play originals, in two bands. We choose our tempo. Sometimes the drummer wants to try it slow, and it changes the groove, always in a good way coz we all improvise depending on the tempo. Yes, it is a skill, we've been playing originals all our lives

I understand in a coverband you need to match the recording....but, you've heard the recording, many many times so why the metronome?

[SpondonBassed]

11 minutes ago, bazzbass said:

...I understand in a coverband you need to match the recording....but, you've heard the recording, many many times so why the metronome?

In case someone decides to do a Joe Cocker treatment on a respected standard, that's why.

 

[phil.c60]

37 minutes ago, bazzbass said:

........We choose our tempo. Sometimes the drummer wants to try it slow, and it changes the groove, always in a good way coz we all improvise depending on the tempo. Yes, it is a skill, we've been playing originals all our lives .....

 

I can hear the distant sound of the approaching car crash. "trying it" is for rehearsals or bands that haven't learnt their material properly. Gigging it is for the finished product. As for the "we've been doing this all our lives" I deal with lots of people in my professional life who have been doing it "all their lives"  - badly. That's why they need me to fix it.

[bazzbass]

yes mate we try new tempos at rehearsals not live, when did I say that? But we DO improvise our individual parts, maybe that is difficult for you to understand,it's OUR music,we can play it however the #$%@ we want !

 

completely different mind set from doing a cover of a cover as above lol

 

nice and condescending of you, but no,we don't need you to FIX anything for us lol what arrogance lol

 

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by bazzbass

[phil.c60]

Who said anything about "matching the recording"?  I distinctly said we go for a feel and then make a note of the tempo so as for the "you've heard it many many times" that's just foolish.  And the thread is about "metronome on stage" so when you talk about "the drummer tries it...blah blah" it suggests that you are talking about playing live. Or it's irrelevant. Back to the literacy thing again. And as for condescending, try rereading the "it's a skill, we've been doing it all our lives" part of your post again and have a look in the mirror. And I never offered to fix anything for you either. That's me done - I'm off out in the sunshine. Ta-ra.

Edited April 22, 2018 by phil.c60

[xgsjx]

In the worship band, I find some songs need the click track to keep everyone in time, especially if there's a pause in the song or a part that's not got a noticeable rhythm playing with it.
But then there's songs where we switch the metronome off after the count in & just play.  The click gets in the way of the feel.

In my rock band, there's no click track.  I was listening to some stuff we did last week & there's a few parts where even if just the drummer had a click, it would have made a huge improvement.

[Phil Starr]

Does anybody else play with normally fallible human beings

Here at the bottom end of the feeding pool I play with a lot of people who make mistakes, not often necessarily but in a 2 hour set it happens and usually several times. Often it's simple things about the structure of songs or forgetting a lyric or a cue. Almost inevitably there is a small pause as everyone adjusts, a fraction of a beat is usually enough but doesn't that throw you off the click even if you keep to strict tempo?

I taught myself to play to a click early on because one of my instruction books told me to, and I do use a drum machine or metronome in practice from time to time. However it doesn't seem to be a widely learned skill. I've tried using a drum machine at rehearsals and found it rare for everyone to finish with the beat, it all starts well enough but a little bit of hesitancy from someone throws us off and the errors often accumulate. I find it really difficult as my instinct is to go with the 'drums' even if it is just a click. I'm staggered by the rest of the bands ability to just keep going when out of time with the drums. 

Has no-one else had that experience? 

[xgsjx]

I’ve been working on a couple of songs with acoustic guitar players/singers & ask them to play to a click & then send me it. What gets me, is how do they manage to lose time with the click. Some they end up playing between the click (usually mid chorus), some lose/gain a beat & some just forget they had a click at all. 😂

[Downunderwonder]

After the drummer counted off a number of tunes too fast or too slow at a big gig he got a tablet with a metronome setlist app. Thank God.

Previously I had managed to cut him off with a 'HELL NO' on occasion before he got to 4 but counting off a ballad double time escaped my attention until the horns were off to the races. Poor old singer sounded like a Chipmunk.

[wateroftyne]

27 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

After the drummer counted off a number of tunes too fast or too slow at a big gig he got a tablet with a metronome setlist app. Thank God.

Previously I had managed to cut him off with a 'HELL NO' on occasion before he got to 4 but counting off a ballad double time escaped my attention until the horns were off to the races. Poor old singer sounded like a Chipmunk.

Are other drummers available?

[Downunderwonder]

1 hour ago, wateroftyne said:

Are other drummers available?

No.

[neilp]

On 22/04/2018 at 06:49, phil.c60 said:

You clearly didn't read the line that said "if we decide that the feel for the song is...." I think that's got "feel" covered. Then he needs to count us in reliably when we're gigging. Forget the maths, try literacy.

You don't need it counted in at 129 or at 130, you need it counted in at the tempo you decided on at rehearsal. You don't even need to know what that tempo is in BPM, as long as you know how it feels. Counting in is no different than playing. If you use loops etc you might need a click. Otherwise keep the mechanical timekeeping out of it and learn to play the song at the right tempo, judged by how it feels. Metronomes are a practice tool.