Are there such things as maracca virtuosos?

[Barking Spiders]

If you play triangle,  chimes, rainstick and claves can you consider yourself a multi-instrumentalist? Has anyone ever wowed you with a tambourine solo?  Have you ever put in several hours practice a day on the guiro?

[Dood]

Not a multi-instrumentalist but a percussionist. I'd say I have been pretty wowed by a few performances on percussion only. Young Musician Of The Year is a pretty good place to see some incredible talent. Of course Evelyn Glennie I'd say is a particularly well known name in percussion.

Edited April 27, 2018 by dood

[Trueno]

I believe tambourine session players would get paid quite well... seriously. People who play things like that... including triangles could well be classically trained percussionists (the son of one of my friends is one). Their level of expertise and hours of practise is beyond the level of the average gigging bassist... I would suggest.

edit... dood beat me to it...

Edited April 27, 2018 by Trueno

[Yank]

All things mentioned would be within the realm of the percussionist.  There are folks within the latino genre who will add the little touches that will elevate the song.  I know you meant to be funny,  and while most folks who pick up a tambourine have no business doing so,  check out the vidio  "Standing in the shadow of Motown" about James Jamerson and the rest of "Funk Brothers".  There's a short piece where the percussionist talks about how they would layer the song.  What he does with a tambourine is so far above what you are used to hearing.

[Dad3353]

Are there virtuoso players..? Of course, as with just about every instrument. Here's just one, performing a well-known piece...

I can't comment too much on her style, as I can't hear those frequencies; to me she could be just as well miming. 

[paul_5]

Bez.

[pete.young]

I went to see a great duo last night, the Washboard Resonators - playing 20's 30's, 40's ragtime and swing. The washboard player James is brilliant, and is clearly also a very skilled percussionist.

[Barking Spiders]

55 minutes ago, Yank said:

All things mentioned would be within the realm of the percussionist.  There are folks within the latino genre who will add the little touches that will elevate the song.  I know you meant to be funny,  and while most folks who pick up a tambourine have no business doing so,  check out the vidio  "Standing in the shadow of Motown" about James Jamerson and the rest of "Funk Brothers".  There's a short piece where the percussionist talks about how they would layer the song.  What he does with a tambourine is so far above what you are used to hearing.

Actually while the tone  of the post is meant to be light-hearted the question is  'serious' . I'm sure there are proper techniques for playing maraccas and the tamborine etc, which you'd hear in latin genres. Unfortunately i think untuned percussion instruments like these have been demeaned in Western pop music where they are handed willy nilly to people like Bez from Happy Mondays who don't play any tuned instrument or sing. In some Motown tunes you can hear tambourine playing where the rhythm is not straightforward at all

[Trueno]

Erm... more cowbell...

[leftybassman392]

Apologies if I'm wrong about this, but what I'm getting from the OP is a bit of an echo of the 'do drummists count as musicians?' debate that has been aired on these forums in the past...

For the avoidance of doubt: yes they do. Like many around here no doubt, I've had the good fortune to work with some spectacularly gifted musicians whose instrument of choice is percussion. To a man (or in one case, woman) they have been a joy to share a stage with.

[fretmeister]

Don't see why not.

 

I'm reminded of a Michael Manring quote that I can only half remember - There are limits to how many orders 12 notes can be put into... there are no such limits on rhythm.

[Barking Spiders]

13 minutes ago, leftybassman392 said:

Apologies if I'm wrong about this, but what I'm getting from the OP is a bit of an echo of the 'do drummists count as musicians?' debate that has been aired on these forums in the past...

For the avoidance of doubt: yes they do. Like many around here no doubt, I've had the good fortune to work with some spectacularly gifted musicians whose instrument of choice is percussion. To a man (or in one case, woman) they have been a joy to share a stage with.

Fraid you are wrong there . Read my recent post. I was specifically talking about untuned instruments like maraccas and tambourines. The term percussion is a bit too general  IMO as it ranges from tuned instruments demanding considerable skill to play well e.g. hammered dulcimer, marimba, timbales etc to claves and triangles. Anyway, as my main instrument is drums (not just kit but also a range of hand and stick drums) you'll never find me dissing drummers and percussionists!

Edited April 27, 2018 by Barking Spiders

[leftybassman392]

2 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I'm reminded of a Michael Manring quote that I can only half remember - There are limits to how many orders 12 notes can be put into... there are no such limits on rhythm.

{My emphasis} Not to be overly picky (and allowing for slight inaccuracies in the quote), but actually that's not correct. As a matter of Mathematics very similar considerations apply to both melody and rhythm. (I can flesh that out a bit if anybody wants me to.)

[leftybassman392]

4 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

Quote

Fraid you are wrong there .

Fair enough.

Quote

I was specifically talking about untuned instruments

As was I.

Thanks for clarifying the point, but drummers (along with guitarists, singers, keys players and just about everyone else who doesn't play bass) do come in for a bit of stick on these pages from time to time. Just making sure.

Edited April 27, 2018 by leftybassman392

[tinyd]

Although instruments like claves are superficially easy to get a sound out of, to play them properly in context takes a load of skill, and in terms of supporting role it's not that far removed from bass in some ways. In a genre like Cuban rumba, the clave is essential as it is (as the name suggests) the key that keeps all the other rhythms together:
 

 

[Barking Spiders]

Just to make it clearer what I'm really getting at is that in mainstream  / chart music  - mainly in the US and Europe -  the only time most people will see tamborines or marracas being used is by 'fifth'wheel' types or backing singers who give the impression they're doing something while on stage. This probably gives many non-musicians the impression instruments like these are easy to play. Maybe there's opportunity for someone to bring them into the mainstream and show how they really should be played. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Barking Spiders

[tinyd]

1 minute ago, Barking Spiders said:

Just to make it clearer what I'm really getting at is that in mainstream  / chart music  - mainly in the US and Europe -  the only time most people will see tamborines or marracas being used is by 'fifth'wheel' types or backing singers who give the impression they're doing something while on stage. This probably gives many non-musicians the impression instruments like these are easy to play. Maybe there's opportunity for someone to bring them into the mainstream and show how they really should be played. 

Yep, that's fair enough - they're often relegated alright. I think the reason for this is that rhythm itself is often treated as secondary in a lot of genres for some reason. I think as bass players we're always looking for some kind of groove, but a lot of people aren't that bothered.

[EliasMooseblaster]

26 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

I was specifically talking about untuned instruments like maraccas and tambourines. The term percussion is a bit too general  IMO as it ranges from tuned instruments demanding considerable skill to play well e.g. hammered dulcimer, marimba, timbales etc to claves and triangles.

I know there was more emphasis on congas and bongos than maracas/tambourines, but the two percussionists in the original Santana lineup were pretty impressive - on those early albums you almost feel like the drummer had to rein in his playing to keep out of their way.

[Leonard Smalls]

I saw an awesome percussion solo - mainly on the triangle - by Mino Cinelu with Herbie Hancock's Headhunters in 1989 at the Town and Country Club.

For further percussion brilliance, check out Daniel Sadownick with the Screaming Headless Torsos:

 

[Cato]

2 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

Are there virtuoso players..? Of course, as with just about every instrument. Here's just one, performing a well-known piece...

I can't comment too much on her style, as I can't hear those frequencies....

You lucky git.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, Barking Spiders said:

Just to make it clearer what I'm really getting at is that in mainstream  / chart music  - mainly in the US and Europe -  the only time most people will see tamborines or marracas being used is by 'fifth'wheel' types or backing singers who give the impression they're doing something while on stage. This probably gives many non-musicians the impression instruments like these are easy to play. Maybe there's opportunity for someone to bring them into the mainstream and show how they really should be played. 

In listening to some so-called 'mainstream/chart' music (as I do, but as little as possible...), I often get the impression that most of the players are 'fifth wheels', as there is little real virtuoso in there, what with a drone of a bass, a 'disco'-style 'One-One-One-One' thud from a synthetic bass drum, a cheesy 'hook' line from a keyboard of some kind (or even an arpeggiateur..!) and a robotised, auto-tuned vocoder vocal track (usually heavily harmonised to overbrimming...).
Yes, I'm exaggerating slightly, but there's an awful lot of over-produced sludge out there, and a well-played cowbell is often the high-spot of the whole piece. Mozart has been dead a long time; most modern 'pop' music hammers this home to us on a regular basis. Sad..? Yes, it is. Old..? Yes, I am. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Dad3353

[EliasMooseblaster]

51 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said:

It's not just perussion which suffers this fate- harmonica, ukulele, and cajon are particularly prone to hamfistery, although one could argue that in the big scheme of things, guitar, bass, and drums are significant offenders too!

There was a definite gulf in ability between the many harmonica players at one of my old regular jam nights...every so often one guy would get up who really knew how to get a tune of the thing. Unfortunately those guys were much less regular than the guys who had learned three blues licks and thought they could get away with playing them in a loop. A bit like the Bernard Black approach to the accordion ("...well, I can't play the guitar either, but I thought this would be less obvious...")

Mind you, this was also the same jam where one singer would get up carrying a guitar that he never plugged in, let alone played - it was literally just hanging off him for show...

[Barking Spiders]

2 hours ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

I know there was more emphasis on congas and bongos than maracas/tambourines, but the two percussionists in the original Santana lineup were pretty impressive - on those early albums you almost feel like the drummer had to rein in his playing to keep out of their way.

Indeed, while I actually dislike CS's guitar tone, what made those early albums listenable for me were the polyrhythms laid down by the drummer and percussionists. The emphasis on rhythm in latin music is what makes much of it great IMO. I long stopped listening to  mainstream US, UK and European rock, pop, hip hop and dance/electronica as it's mostly plodding, formulaic, derivative and lacking creativity and  instrumental skill.  Go outside this very limited musical world and there's loads of interesting stuff going on, not that most Brits, Americans and Europeans bother to hence why music radio is the way it is.

[EliasMooseblaster]

56 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

Indeed, while I actually dislike CS's guitar tone, what made those early albums listenable for me were the polyrhythms laid down by the drummer and percussionists. The emphasis on rhythm in latin music is what makes much of it great IMO. I long stopped listening to  mainstream US, UK and European rock, pop, hip hop and dance/electronica as it's mostly plodding, formulaic, derivative and lacking creativity and  instrumental skill.  Go outside this very limited musical world and there's loads of interesting stuff going on, not that most Brits, Americans and Europeans bother to hence why music radio is the way it is.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Carlos' guitar tone! But yes, funnily enough I've had an inkling for a while that most rock music has been rhythmically quite uninspired ever since "rock drumming" became an idiom in its own right - circa the time most young drummers decided they wanted to play like John Bonham - and it seems to have been dominated by variants on "kick - snare - kick - snare - emphasise - every - beat - think - like - a - metronome" ever since. I feel like there was a lot more freedom and invention when drummers basically learnt to play jazz and then joined rock bands. He says, having been born decades after the event, with only the recordings to go on...it's hard to put my finger on exactly what it is, but maybe some of these modern rock drummers just need to learn to swing.