Measuring the success of a band?

[Al Krow]

A discussion on dirt pedals seems to have got well er, a little dirty...I may have said in response to a query that:

"PS You're right [the pedal] could have been Geddy inspired, but not quite (ok not even close to!) in the same league as the maestro himself. A chap by the name of dUg playing in a band which did hit no. 49 in the UK charts in 1994 (highest ranking in the US charts was 85)...but have not really had much chart success in the last 24 years over here..."

To which 

12 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

...except they influenced a whole generation of bands that are household names and made it big and these bands and their members reference them.

I’ll not get into external reasons, it’ll probably breach forum rules, but if you measure greatness purely by chart success and figures that’s fine, but you sell yourself short. Evidently artists like Rodriguez were rubbish.....

So was I out of line in saying that dUg Pinnick and Kings X were no Geddy Lee and Rush?? 

...and who are these amazing bands in the generation that followed Kings X that are now striding the global stage who were influenced by Doug, Gerry and Ty? Frankly what global rock bands have there been to rival Rush (or Yes, or Led Zepp or...) since 2000 anyway?

Edited April 30, 2018 by Al Krow

[skankdelvar]

Depends how one defines success:

i) The favourable or prosperous termination of attempts or endeavours; the accomplishment of one's goals.

Did Kings X achieve their goals? Possibly in an artistic sense. Did the band achieve wider goals (e.g. to get laid on a nightly basis, to drink only the finest wines known to mankind)? Who can say?

ii) The attainment of wealth, position, honours, or the like.

Again, possibly. Probably more than some bands (Dumpy's Rusty Nuts) and less than others (Yes, Rush). 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by skankdelvar

[dannybuoy]

28 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

what global rock bands have there been to rival Yes since 2000 anyway?

Muse and Foo Fighters would have to be up there. I'd bet most under 30s have never even heard of Yes!

[Al Krow]

11 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

Depends how one defines success:

i) The favourable or prosperous termination of attempts or endeavours; the accomplishment of one's goals.

Did Kings X achieve their goals? Possibly in an artistic sense. Did the band achieve wider goals (e.g. to get laid on a nightly basis, to drink only the finest wines known to mankind)? Who can say?

ii) The attainment of wealth, position, honours, or the like.

Again, possibly. Probably more than some bands (Dumpy's Rusty Nuts) and less than others (Yes, Rush).

Well you pretty much nailed it at the first response!

11 hours ago, dannybuoy said:

Muse and Foo Fighters would have to be up there. I'd bet most under 30s have never even heard of Yes!

Have to say, I'm very partial to Muse! Both bands you mentioned  formed in 1994 (in Teignmouth, Devon, and  Seattle, Washington respectively).

Not after 2000...

[FuNkShUi]

12 hours ago, Al Krow said:

what global rock bands have there been to rival Rush (or Yes, or Led Zepp or...) since 2000 anyway?

Kings of Leon?
Coldplay?

 

[EliasMooseblaster]

12 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

Depends how one defines success:

As well as being reliably spot-on, skank's response hints at how things have changed in the last few decades. It seems that we've moved away from a time when the single reliable measure of success was "the charts." Getting a song or album to cause a small ripple in the appropriate Top 40 would have been a good indicator of an early success; being able to follow that up would indicate that you were more than just a "one hit wonder."

Trouble is, now that everyone takes their music differently - whether buying physical reproductions, paying for downloads, not paying for downloads, paying for streaming, finding free streams, or just good old-fashioned shoplifting - it's much harder to put a single measure on success. Streaming has only recently been added to physical sales and downloads as a measure for The Charts, and even then in a fairly arbitrary and clumsy fashion.

But with this, of course, it now seems more acceptable - indeed, more sensible - not to desire the old trappings of fame as a musician. Most of us have accepted that a Los Angeles penthouse with booze, drugs and groupies available via Deliveroo is greedy, puerile, and unrealistic, and would settle instead for our music being sufficiently important to enough people that we could make a steady income from it.

Steve Lawson is the first example who springs to mind, of somebody who has embraced a different, more low-key model of success, and seems to make a comfortable living from a loyal following and a healthy ratio of fingers to pies.

[Al Krow]

27 minutes ago, FuNkShUi said:

Kings of Leon? formed 1999
Coldplay? formed 1996

Still no decent global rock bands formed since 2000...

[FinnDave]

I'm stunned by how many of the bands put forward as 'global successes' here I haven't heard of. I remember Yes (a friend liked them, I couldn't stand them) and Rush (same friend liked them, I couldn't stand them either). Strangely enough, we are still friends and still have quite different musical tastes.

Kings X? I thought it was a station. I have, until this thread, never heard of a band of that name.

I'm not proud of my ignorance, but neither do I feel inclined to look them up. I have existed quite happily in my limited world for many years now, haven't listened to the radio for the last 40 years or more, very rarely watch TV (have to hear it though, my wife enjoys it, I usually sit facing away from it, often listening to music through headphones to drown out the constant chatter of the telly).

Edited April 30, 2018 by FinnDave

[chris_b]

The only measure of success for me is how much is the band working and what kind of work is it doing.

Whether it's an occasional gig down the Dog & Duck or an international stadium tour, a shaky video your girl friend shot on her iPhone or a million selling CD, your success or otherwise can be measured by these two things.

 

As to who has heard of who. . . . !

If your favourite band has heard of The Stones, Led Zeppelin, the Who or any band of that ilk then you've been influenced by Willie Dixon (look him up). One of the most influential bass players ever.

[Bigwan]

Measure of success? For me it'd be making a comfortable living doing something I loved to a level that meant I didn't grow to hate it. Think Devin Townsend rather than Pete Townsend.

I really like Kevin Kelly's 1000 true fans theory...

[Cat Burrito]

A lot of my heroes were only in cult bands and never "made it" in the sense of being massive. I love the Stones but I'm not selling a kidney, just to get a ticket that has me standing 1/2 mile away, surrounded by a load of disinterested people watching the show through their iPhones. if you are making music, inspiring people and can keep going, this is success in my eyes. This can be done at club or Arena level or even working sessions.

[dannybuoy]

1 hour ago, FinnDave said:

I'm stunned by how many of the bands put forward as 'global successes' here I haven't heard of. I remember Yes (a friend liked them, I couldn't stand them) and Rush (same friend liked them, I couldn't stand them either). Strangely enough, we are still friends and still have quite different musical tastes.

Kings X? I thought it was a station. I have, until this thread, never heard of a band of that name.

I'm not proud of my ignorance, but neither do I feel inclined to look them up. I have existed quite happily in my limited world for many years now, haven't listened to the radio for the last 40 years or more, very rarely watch TV (have to hear it though, my wife enjoys it, I usually sit facing away from it, often listening to music through headphones to drown out the constant chatter of the telly).

I think most people in the UK (myself included) never heard of Kings X until they read a Sansamp manual!

But if you hadn't heard of Muse, Foos, etc, then I think it's safe to say you've been living under a heavy rock.

[FinnDave]

5 minutes ago, dannybuoy said:

I think most people in the UK (myself included) never heard of Kings X until they read a Sansamp manual!

But if you hadn't heard of Muse, Foos, etc, then I think it's safe to say you've been living under a heavy rock.

I do have (and use) a SansAmp, but can't say I've read past the first page of the manual.

I have spent a lot of the past 20 years living in rural Finland, which is similar to living under a rock, but with less social life!

[Cato]

If you took a straw poll of people in the average UK street I'd bet the mortgage that very few will have heard of Rush.

Yes would be recognised by a few more but using either band as a yardstick to measure global success is probably pushing it.

If you were to ask people about the Beatles or Justin Bieber on the other hand...

[FuNkShUi]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Still no decent global rock bands formed since 2000...

You're going off formed rather than first album released.....challenge accepted

[Skol303]

Obviously, as we all know, the 'measure of success' for any band is their grasp of compression

Other than that, I imagine it's all hugely subjective (I mean, what's the metric for measuring 'influence'?), but there'll always be things like the Top 40 Chart and now Spotify to give us a measure based on sales/listens, which is I imagine how most professional bands and especially their managers measure succe$$.

For instance, here's the Spotify most played 'rock bands' list from last year:

1. Coldplay
2. Twenty One Pilots
3. The Beatles
4. Linkin Park
5. Red Hot Chili Peppers
6. Panic! A The Disco
7. Metallica
8. Arctic Monkeys
9. Queen
10. Fall Out Boy
11. Green Day
12. AC/DC
13. Pink Floyd
14. Blink-182
15. Paramore
16. Guns N’ Roses
17. Nirvana
18. The Rolling Stones
19. The 1975
20. Kings of Leon

...no mention of Rush (or Yes, or Led Zepp or...).

EDIT to say that Rodriguez was most certainly a best selling artist, it just happened to be in South Africa rather than his native US. And he's doing quite well for himself there now too  

Edited April 30, 2018 by Skol303

[Al Krow]

23 minutes ago, dannybuoy said:

I think most people in the UK (myself included) never heard of Kings X until they read a Sansamp manual!

But if you hadn't heard of Muse, Foos, etc, then I think it's safe to say you've been living under a heavy rock.

Living under but not listening to heavy rock? 😄 

[FinnDave]

13 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Living under but not listening to heavy rock? 😄 

Most definitely not listening to that - never been my thing.

[Barking Spiders]

1 hour ago, dannybuoy said:

I think most people in the UK (myself included) never heard of Kings X until they read a Sansamp manual!

But if you hadn't heard of Muse, Foos, etc, then I think it's safe to say you've been living under a heavy rock.

For me living under  rock would've been the preferable option. My missus likes Muse as does my eldest sprogette.  I think I might have to trade both of them in.  I think it's safe to say probably  99.999% of under 30s won't know who Rush or Yes are. A fraction more may've heard of LZ cos their dads have  an old copy of Houses of The Holy lying about but I doubt most could name a single track.  I'd also never heard of Kings X until now. I Wiki'd them but  I'll be going no further.

[VAMPYRE 5]

15 hours ago, Al Krow said:

A discussion on dirt pedals seems to have got well er, a little dirty...I may have said in response to a query that:

"PS You're right [the pedal] could have been Geddy inspired, but not quite (ok not even close to!) in the same league as the maestro himself. A chap by the name of dUg playing in a band which did hit no. 49 in the UK charts in 1994 (highest ranking in the US charts was 85)...but have not really had much chart success in the last 24 years over here..."

To which 

So was I out of line in saying that dUg Pinnick and Kings X were no Geddy Lee and Rush?? 

@Al Krow;@Cuzzie; @krispn;

I don’t think it was Al, er...erm... you went all...erm... well...er...sod it! You went all Forum Nerdy by wanting to move off Topic. Bit of conversation never hurt forums except the HPF i.e. anti-Bass brigade mutterings 😂😂

ANYWAY, BACK ON TOPIC!!

[E sharp]

19 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

 (Dumpy's Rusty Nuts)

Used to like the pisstake stuff they used to do about them in Melody Maker years ago 

 

 

 

[BreadBin]

Any fan of The Goldbergs TV series will have heard of Rush.

[dannybuoy]

47 minutes ago, BreadBin said:

Any fan of The Goldbergs TV series will have heard of Rush.

I've never heard of The Goldbergs!

[Roger2611]

7 hours ago, Skol303 said:

Obviously, as we all know, the 'measure of success' for any band is their grasp of compression

Other than that, I imagine it's all hugely subjective (I mean, what's the metric for measuring 'influence'?), but there'll always be things like the Top 40 Chart and now Spotify to give us a measure based on sales/listens, which is I imagine how most professional bands and especially their managers measure succe$$.

For instance, here's the Spotify most played 'rock bands' list from last year:

1. Coldplay
2. Twenty One Pilots
3. The Beatles
4. Linkin Park
5. Red Hot Chili Peppers
6. Panic! A The Disco
7. Metallica
8. Arctic Monkeys
9. Queen
10. Fall Out Boy
11. Green Day
12. AC/DC
13. Pink Floyd
14. Blink-182
15. Paramore
16. Guns N’ Roses
17. Nirvana
18. The Rolling Stones
19. The 1975
20. Kings of Leon

21. Yodaclub

...no mention of Rush (or Yes, or Led Zepp or...).

EDIT to say that Rodriguez was most certainly a best selling artist, it just happened to be in South Africa rather than his native US. And he's doing quite well for himself there now too  

I just added us in at number 21 just because it looks good! On a success level I have now achieved what I set out to do!

[Happy Jack]

Who are Paramore?

Are they famous?

Why?