Jimothey Posted June 15, 2018 Author Share Posted June 15, 2018 Managed to sort out the scarf joint today The jobs over the weekend will be: 1. Rout out for the truss rod 2. Start thinning out the neck 3. Cut headstock and taper the neck 4. Cut and glue the wings on (hopefully will get time) 🤔 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jimothey said: Managed to sort out the scarf joint today That looks a good joint! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted June 15, 2018 Author Share Posted June 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said: That looks a good joint! You know what they say 2nd times a charm 😁 I've decided to leave a little V-ish shape at the bottom of the headstock (kind of a volute you might call it) just to give it a but more meat on the joint 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 16 hours ago, Jimothey said: You know what they say 2nd times a charm 😁 I've decided to leave a little V-ish shape at the bottom of the headstock (kind of a volute you might call it) just to give it a but more meat on the joint I like it. I've got a thing for volutes this year. Brave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 Couldn't get as much as I hoped done! Marked out for the taper and truss rod and cut the wings, but............ For some reason the neck is completely solid but the body split apart (Note to self maybe the polycarbonate might not have been a good idea..... But at least I tried!?!) so luckily I had some more sapele which is 44mm thick so I've used that and a going to plane it to about 38mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 I don't see how the polycarbonate is to blame if the joint gave up at the body. You did say the neck was solid. Vicariously yours... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 24 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said: I don't see how the polycarbonate is to blame if the joint gave up at the body. You did say the neck was solid. Vicariously yours... I think that the surface of the polycarbonate is too smooth so the glue isn't getting a very good/strong key to it I don't think I scored it on the body laminate but I definitely did on the neck??? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Are you talking about the bit of the neck that goes through the body? I was hoping you'd get the bond to take. It may be that some specialist bonding method is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said: Are you talking about the bit of the neck that goes through the body? I was hoping you'd get the bond to take. It may be that some specialist bonding method is needed. Yeah before I glued up the laminations for the neck with a utility knife I criss-cross scored the polycarbonate then glued it together and it seems (🤞) to be holding But I think a strongly worded email is needed to gorilla glue STICKS EVERYTHING MY derrière!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Jimothey said: Couldn't get as much as I hoped done! Marked out for the taper and truss rod and cut the wings, but............ For some reason the neck is completely solid but the body split apart (Note to self maybe the polycarbonate might not have been a good idea..... But at least I tried!?!) so luckily I had some more sapele which is 44mm thick so I've used that and a going to plane it to about 38mm I'm still unsure about that neck/body positioning @Jimothey . When you put the tapered fretboard on, won't the neck show? I've got to nip out, but I'll try and photoshop what I mean when I get back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: I'm still unsure about that neck/body positioning @Jimothey . When you put the tapered fretboard on, won't the neck show? I've got to nip out, but I'll try and photoshop what I mean when I get back That's just a mock up I've decided just to taper the whole neck then glue the wings on as it looked a bit odd when I set it up with the neck left parallel when it meets the body but I'm not ready to glue up yet I still need to rout out for the truss rod Which I'm still not sure what length I need it to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Just now, Jimothey said: That's just a mock up I've decided just to taper the whole neck then glue the wings on as it looked a bit odd when I set it up with the neck left parallel when it meets the body but I'm not ready to glue up yet I still need to rout out for the truss rod Which I'm still not sure what length I need it to be? Ah - OK, no problem Anyone got a view about the truss rod on a single cut, builder folks? My view is that the end of a truss rod only wants to be an inch or so into the bit that can't move (ie where the body first meets the neck). Trouble is, on a single cut, that can be a long way down the neck (viewed from the body)! On the other hand, putting the rod into a place that can't bend is, at best, pointless and, at worst, a potential unwanted stress point. Or have I got that wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: Ah - OK, no problem Anyone got a view about the truss rod on a single cut, builder folks? My view is that the end of a truss rod only wants to be an inch or so into the bit that can't move (ie where the body first meets the neck). Trouble is, on a single cut, that can be a long way down the neck (viewed from the body)! On the other hand, putting the rod into a place that can't bend is, at best, pointless and, at worst, a potential unwanted stress point. Or have I got that wrong? I think this shows it better how I'm going to do it I asked that question on this thread and started one on the repairs/technical and just got told that the truss rod needs to end at the end if the fretboard But I asked the same question as you surely it doesn't need to go a lot past the torn horn as the neck can't move beyond that point anyway?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Just now, Jimothey said: I think this shows it better how I'm going to do it I asked that question on this thread and started one on the repairs/technical and just got told that the truss rod needs to end at the end if the fretboard But I asked the same question as you surely it doesn't need to go a lot past the torn horn as the neck can't move beyond that point anyway?? Ref the taper - yup - perfectly good way of doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: Ref the taper - yup - perfectly good way of doing it. I just thought it would make it easier Ref the truss rod the shortest I've found that should work is a 435mm one which comes to here? To me that should work perfect but I still would prefer some advice on it 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Jimothey said: Ref the truss rod the shortest I've found that should work is a 435mm one which comes to here? To me that should work perfect but I still would prefer some advice on it 😀 For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that's where I would put it. Let me have a look where I put it on the two single cuts I built. I should have the photos... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that's where I would put it. Let me have a look where I put it on the two single cuts I built. I should have the photos... Cheers mate just out of interest what glue do you use to stick them in normal wood glue or epoxy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 My two were a touch further back but I'm pretty sure it was simply the sizes available: Let's put it this way, if it was me building it, I would be perfectly happy putting it where you plan to. The truss rod shouldn't be glued in at all (if that's what you meant) - they need to be free to bend and flex. You can, if you like, add a capping strip - but to be honest that's to keep the glue out of the slot more than anything else. The second one above has a piece of acoustic guitar binding as a cap and this was glued with a bead of cyano wick'd into the gap. Trouble is, capping means a deeper slot so nowadays I don't cap it at all - I slot it for the truss rod square bar to sit flush with the join and pop a strip of masking tape over the slot to stop the fretboard fixing glue from getting into the channel or truss-rod threads: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: My two were a touch further back but I'm pretty sure it was simply the sizes available: Let's put it this way, if it was me building it, I would be perfectly happy putting it where you plan to. The truss rod shouldn't be glued in at all (if that's what you meant) - they need to be free to bend and flex. You can, if you like, add a capping strip - but to be honest that's to keep the glue out of the slot more than anything else. The second one above has a piece of acoustic guitar binding as a cap and this was glued with a bead of cyano wick'd into the gap. Trouble is, capping means a deeper slot so nowadays I don't cap it at all - I slot it for the truss rod square bar to sit flush with the join and pop a strip of masking tape over the slot to stop the fretboard fixing glue from getting into the channel or truss-rod threads: Cheers for the advice and pics if it's good enough for you I'll take it!! 😁 I read on stewmac's website to fill the sides with epoxy but reading your explanation not gluing it at all makes a lot more sense! So I don't mess it up the one I've been looking at is 6mm wide x 9mm height if I thinking correctly when I rout out the channel it needs to be a tight fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, Jimothey said: Yeah before I glued up the laminations for the neck with a utility knife I criss-cross scored the polycarbonate then glued it together and it seems (🤞) to be holding But I think a strongly worded email is needed to gorilla glue STICKS EVERYTHING MY derrière!! The claims made by television (and other platforms) advertising are to be considered as hyperbole. To bond such different materials you'd need to look at differential expansion. In other words how the two materials expand with increased temperature. If the difference is great, you will needs more than just scoring to key the two together. I'd recommend a series of short dowels to stitch the pieces in place. They'd need to be installed with a degree of precision so that without adhesive, they make a tight fit. When you apply the adhesive it has then got less shearing stress to deal with when the ambient temperature changes. A bit of deep research is required. 15 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said: Anyone got a view about the truss rod on a single cut, builder folks? My view is that the end of a truss rod only wants to be an inch or so into the bit that can't move (ie where the body first meets the neck). Trouble is, on a single cut, that can be a long way down the neck (viewed from the body)! On the other hand, putting the rod into a place that can't bend is, at best, pointless and, at worst, a potential unwanted stress point. Or have I got that wrong? I am not a builder. I am a licenced aircraft mechanic. What's the worst that can happen with a short truss rod? In a single cut body where the rod is anchored short of the bottom horn, string tension might introduce a torsional stress below the anchor point that would have the effect of twisting the neck. I can't see this as being significant unless your neck is exceptionally thin or the bass is stored for a long time in a humid and warm place with the strings at tension. If you are unsure fit a standard length rod. If you can find a shortened rod, go for it. It is a worthy experiment. Edited June 17, 2018 by SpondonBassed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 13 hours ago, Jimothey said: Cheers for the advice and pics if it's good enough for you I'll take it!! 😁 I read on stewmac's website to fill the sides with epoxy but reading your explanation not gluing it at all makes a lot more sense! So I don't mess it up the one I've been looking at is 6mm wide x 9mm height if I thinking correctly when I rout out the channel it needs to be a tight fit? A close fit is preferable so it doesn't rattle and so the bend is exactly where you intend it...in the middle. Ref rattle some people pop a couple of spots of flexible sealant in, but my logic is that,as soon as there is any tension on the rod at all, there's nothing able to rattle anyway. I use a 6mm router bit going 9mm deep for the ones I use. A touch too deep is no problem, but make sure that the fretboard isn't being lifted up by any high spots on the rod top. You may need to open out either end a touch with a chisel - on some types, the end screw blocks are a touch wider. For the wood on wood fretboard joint (and any wood on wood jointing) I would strongly recommend Titebond Original. Not only does it do the job, but in the event that you ever needed to remove the fretboard, then it is possible, using heat and technique, to do so, and without damaging the fretboard. With epoxy or other similar glues, it would be a 'router off' job 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 13 hours ago, Jimothey said: I read on stewmac's website to fill the sides with epoxy but reading your explanation not gluing it at all makes a lot more sense! Can you post the link? Not at all sure what this refers to. Was that in relation to fixed carbon or aluminium reinforcing rods? Those would be generally glued in but adjustable rods are just the opposite - you don't want glue anywhere near them! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba_the_gut Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 I've also read an article where the builder use silicon sealer in the truss rod cavity to allow movement but remove any chance of the rod rattling. This would also prevent glue ingress. I have tried this despite my loathing of silicone sealant (bought a house where the previous folk had used it everywhere.....) and it worked fine. But have to be careful it doesn't end up anywhere else!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba_the_gut Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 I've also read an article where the builder use silicon sealer in the truss rod cavity to allow movement but remove any chance of the rod rattling. This would also prevent glue ingress. I have tried this despite my loathing of silicone sealant (bought a house where the previous folk had used it everywhere.....) and it worked fine. But have to be careful it doesn't end up anywhere else!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: Can you post the link? Not at all sure what this refers to. Was that in relation to fixed carbon or aluminium reinforcing rods? Those would be generally glued in but adjustable rods are just the opposite - you don't want glue anywhere near them! Morning I've routed out for the truss rod with a 6mm bit and went just a smidge over 9mm deep, and I've thinned down the wings to 35mm Hopefully on my lunch I'm going to do the taper of the neck and try and get the wings all glued on Here's the link for how stewmac tell you to fit a truss rod https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Learn_About_Truss_Rod_Installation_and_Repair/Truss_Rod_Installation.html&ved=0ahUKEwis2pv-6NjbAhWEA8AKHR8NB8UQFggnMAE&usg=AOvVaw2OroVE96fn1E7jqIdJMHNX 😀 Edited June 17, 2018 by Jimothey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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