Making a boring bassline more interesting?

[arabassist]

Hello,

Firstly, sorry for my musical ignorance.

I classify as a newbie at bass and know little about music theory. What I'm trying to figure out is how to make a boring bass line more fun. For example, if we take something simple like 'With or Without You' by U2 which is just D--A--B--G. How do I go about adding variation, whilst immediately knowing that it will harmonise? (sorry if my terminology is wrong) The first thought that came into my head was to make it octave based and slap it but that doesn't exactly fit the mood of a song like that. I see people bass covers on youtube where they randomly improvise stuff with the confidence that the notes will fit the tune.

I spoke to my pianist friend and he told me about fifths and tenths etc and i realised they're very common in the basslines I play but can't figure out how to use them in my own variations. I ask my guitarist friends for advice and they're just like "I dunno...bass is meant to be boring..." (idiots)

Thanks

[Toasted]

This is where a good teacher will come in

[arabassist]

lol no one will teach me, my mate ditched me and i got no money for a pro.

[Jezyorkshire]

I would suggest that while listening to the song at a volume you can hear yourself think, without your bass in your hands, hum the bass line with the song and then hum a similar bass line with how you hear you would like to play it, the trick is hearing it and then finding it on your bass, if you try to do it on the bass first it is likely that your fingers will dictate what you play rather than your musical ear! good luck, Jez.
p.s. do it in small measures at first.

[Happy Jack]

Using your example, try leaving the basic structure well alone and concentrate on how you get from note to note.

For the initial D --> A, try the simplest option.
Instead of playing DDDD/DDDD/AAAA/AAAA go for DDDD/DDDC#/AAAA/AAAA.

It's a tiny change, but it makes a difference.

The A --> B is too close to be worth messing with (yet), so concentrate on the B --> G.
Instead of playing BBBB/BBBB/GGGG/GGGG try BBBB/BF#AF#/GGGG/GGGF#.

Note that you'll need to go up to the D string for that last phrase (unless you play a 5-string).

If you do this sort of stuff with ALL your playing then pretty soon you'll find you're doing it automatically on the changes. Once you get to that point, you can start looking at building little 'excursions' into your basslines all the time.

[endorka]

[quote name='arabassist' post='335825' date='Nov 24 2008, 09:13 PM']What I'm trying to figure out is how to make a boring bass line more fun. For example, if we take something simple like 'With or Without You' by U2 which is just D--A--B--G.[/quote]

Ok, I'll play devils advocate - you don't! That particular arrangement of that particular tune has sold millions and is loved by millions throughout the known universe. You may think the bassline is boring, but presumably they disagree. Adam Clayton must be doing something right here - and if you can figure out what that is, you'll learn something, and maybe earn something.

If you want to play basslines that are more fun, find some and learn them in addition to 'With or Without You'. After a while you'll hear how to spice up simpler lines without being intrusive and ruining the original feel of the tune. Unless, of course, that is your intention!

Jennifer

[obbm]

[quote name='endorka' post='336042' date='Nov 25 2008, 09:25 AM']Ok, I'll play devils advocate - you don't! That particular arrangement of that particular tune has sold millions and is loved by millions throughout the known universe. You may think the bassline is boring, but presumably they disagree. Adam Clayton must be doing something right here - and if you can figure out what that is, you'll learn something, and maybe earn something.

If you want to play basslines that are more fun, find some and learn them in addition to 'With or Without You'. After a while you'll hear how to spice up simpler lines without being intrusive and ruining the original feel of the tune. Unless, of course, that is your intention!

Jennifer[/quote]

+1. Well said.

I once saw a delegate at a BGM Bass School taken to task for trying to spice up Highway to Hell. As the professional taking the session said, "It's the rythmic plodding bass line that people tap their feet to. Change it and you destroy the song. Don't do it".

If you find bass lines of established and proven numbers too boring then find other songs, write your own songs or take up another instrument.

[KennysFord]

Deffinitely dont take up another instrument.
When playing at home (or at least when not playing live)play what the hell you like over whatever the hell you like.If you listen to what you're playing you'll soon learn what fits and what doesnt.Less is more in most cases. If you hav'nt seen his video's Search for Dave Marks on youtube and check out his walking bass lessons.
Stick with it and enjoy yourself.

[wateroftyne]

+1 to what has been said.

Ask this question first... 'Does this bassline NEED to be more interesting?'

[Adrenochrome]

I'm with Jennifer on this one. The bassline may seem boring to you but the sound of the whole song is crucial. Maybe concentrate on playing it really well with the best feel you can possibly give and try adding in the odd passing note as described by Happy Jack above. But note that this may not actually improve how the song sounds.

[nick]

+1 to all the above.

You could get a teacher, but if that's not economically viable, try buying few books on scales or getting info off the net.
Also, it's good to listen to as much music as possible, songs with good basslines not necessarily solo technical stuff. For me Motown,McCartney,Lynott is inspirational.

Guessing from your song choice, indie-ish stuff might be what what you're into(?) You can't go wrong with Andy Rourke from The Smiths or for newer material possibly the Killers.

Don't be afraid of trying any variations on the root bassline, however 'corny' or 'cheesey' it may sound, it can lift a song up & make a difference - that's our job!

Off the top of my head:
DD E F# A/
AA B C# E/
BB D E F#/
GG [i][b]G[/b][/i] F# E F#/

Edited November 25, 2008 by nick

[Maxcat]

Yet another with Jennifer OBBM et al. The rock solid link between Messrs Clayton and Mullen Jr is the foundation of any U2 song. Yes there are runs and links that can be added, however I think the point I would like to make is that the "skill" in playing lines like Claytons is in perfecting the delivery and faultess timing that he produces. If as a bass player you can replicate this, then youre not doing badly at all. Fast licks are great, but a basic drive played to perfection always has its place IMHO.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Maxcat

[chris_b]

"With Or Without You", like "Every Breath You Take", is a great song and the bass line supports the song. That's it! On some numbers you have to understand that the song comes first and save your creative bass lines for where they fit.

[jakenewmanbass]

I'll add a voice to the 'why change it camp'
I will go a little further and say:
if you want to be a good bass player, realise the depth and integrity that exists in doing that simple support job as well as it can be done. There is a modern disease in bass playing and other instruments that it's all about how fast, how high, how screaming it can be, the cost? The music.
Melody, lyricism, poise, dignity are all given over in favour of chops and showing off. The great bass players will move you with great simplicity.
Don't get me wrong, I am not some old curmudgeon who thinks that you shouldn't be able to play fast and furious (and I can) I just think there is a place for it and it's limited. Most good bass in my opinion is found in taste, placement, choice and poise.

Edited November 25, 2008 by jakesbass

[OldGit]

I understand what you mean.

It's a bit like driving. Beginners like to go wild, add interesting things, slap everything, play super dooper runs and stuff all over songs like that.
It's good exercise. Once you've done a bit of that you should be able to appreciate that simple isn't always wrong, and that driving nicely isn't wimping out.

That bassline is perfect in context and that's what others are talking about here.

So by all means noodle all over it in private but if you play that out anywhere play it more or less as Adam does ...

Meanwhile, find some "more interesting" basslines and learn them as well.

Once you have learned a good few basslines you will have a better palette to chose from when moving within and between chords.

Try the Beatles and Mowtown greatest hits CD's

and this:

Edited November 25, 2008 by OldGit

[bassbloke]

before you start adding additional notes, experiment with how note length and quality and the use of space can spice up a bassline.

[The Funk]

I agree with all the above - even the stuff that seems to contradict the other stuff.

My suggestion would therefore be not to do anything too drastic. By all means experiment at home but you already know that slapped octaves on it would sound awful.

Have a good, long listen to [i]If You Want Me To Stay[/i] by Sly & The Family Stone. It's mainly root notes with the occasional passing tone but the feel of it is completely different to [i]With Or Without You[/i]. You could try taking the feel of the Sly song and laying it underneath the U2 song. It could be just different enough to be an interesting interpretation of a classic song without ruining it.

[KennysFord]

[quote name='The Funk' post='336756' date='Nov 25 2008, 11:23 PM']I agree with all the above - even the stuff that seems to contradict the other stuff.

Have a good, long listen to [i]If You Want Me To Stay[/i] by Sly & The Family Stone. You could try taking the feel of the Sly song and laying it underneath the U2 song. It could be just different enough to be an interesting interpretation of a classic song without ruining it.[/quote]

+1

[arabassist]

lol ok i forgot about this thread and just the read the load of posts saying that i shouldn't change it, it seems like I've offended a few people. I wasn't criticizing With or Without You for being boring, I love the bassline otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it, I was just curious on how people manage to change basslines into making them their own. The bassline doesn't need to be changed, I just wanted to know how I could change it just for experimentation.

[KennysFord]

[quote name='arabassist' post='337549' date='Nov 26 2008, 06:31 PM']lol ok i forgot about this thread and just the read the load of posts saying that i shouldn't change it, it seems like I've offended a few people. I wasn't criticizing With or Without You for being boring, I love the bassline otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it, I was just curious on how people manage to change basslines into making them their own. The bassline doesn't need to be changed, I just wanted to know how I could change it just for experimentation.[/quote]

Hey dude,no sweat, you absolutely hav'nt offended anyone,your question is a good one and one that i'm sure we all ask ourselves.
Keep plugging away and listen to what you do.The best peice of advise i had from my teacher was "don't overplay your lines" If you keep that in mind you'll not be far of.

[OldGit]

The new Bass Guitar Magazine (25 years of BGM) has a pertinent quote - pertinent to what this thread became rather than what the OP intended

A guy was playing bass with a band he was relatively new to. In the break the very much more experienced keyboard player approached him and said "Someone in this band has to play the bass line. As you are wearing the bass, how about it being you?

Another was a tale of a guy auditioning for Chris Rea, the blues guitarist. The bass player said he was in his "6 string Warwick and showing off his chops" phase. After a bit Mr Rea stopped the music and said "Hey, I'm the guitarist in this band ..... and get yourself a bass" he got the gig but switched to a Musicman ...


I think those two sum up over playing quite well,,

Edited November 28, 2008 by OldGit

[simon1964]

Interesting question this.

I was asked to play at a Charity thing in Nottingham recently, and With or Without You was one of the songs in the set. The key to playing it well is actually to keep things simple, but to really lock in with the feel of the song. I was very tempted to throw in some improvised bits (well the odd fifth and octave!), but it wouldn't have worked.

Another good example, which my covers band plays, is She Sells Sancutary. The bass line is all of four notes, but locked in with the drums, it really drives the song. I have tried to throw in a few more fancy bits, but again it doesn't work.

It doesn't have to be flash or technically difficult to be a good bassline.

Anyway - if I could do fancy improvisation, I'd be a g**tarist

[mewsie]

interesting thread actually, i was talking about this with my tutor last week. i was going through a crisis (as i tend to every now and then) about my own basslines. i felt like i should be writing far more interesting, complicated, technical basslines.

after some discussion on the topic, i realised that, at the moment, its the bassline i hear people humming to themselves hours later, so i must be doing something right. i've now let go of my hang up about complicated basslines for the sake of trying to be snazzy and stick to stuff people move to and remember.

[BassBunny]

The 2 best pieces of advice i ever got were...

1) It is the silence between the notes that make the notes....

2) Whatever you are thinking of playing - Halve it.

It does kinda work. Sometimes dead simple bass lines are the answer.

[IncX]

as a beginner, my mistake is always overplaying. making the song too busy it doesnt make sense anymore.

now, my weakness is keeping a steady time, and yep... keeping the spaces in between just right.

how do you make a bass line your own? you either change the arrangement, or make a new song altogether.