Best rig for weddings and functions and stage sound

[siphillips]

Looking to hear peoples thoughts on what rig is best to use for weddings and corporate events. Ive been doing this thing for 2-3 nights per week for the last 4 years and I have gone through LOTS of gear trying to find something that suits best. My idea is to have something light, loud and compact that doesn't take up a massive stage footprint.  Ive moved from a barefaced BB2 with a Phil Jones m500 to a Vanderkley MNT112 with a EA IAMP 800 ( Sometimes still use the Phil Jones head but its to heavy to cart about all the time).

I play within a 5 piece band x2 vocals guitar, keys , drums.  I find my band mates sometimes telling me that the bass is too loud even just using the single Vanderkley on its own. (I sometimes find this hard to believe as I sometimes find it hard to hear myself on stage with the other instruments coming through the 2 stage monitors (X2 vocals, keys guitar and kick and sometimes violin).  Ive also got the guitarists amp next to me too. I never have bass in the monitor as they already think its loud. I often think when members of the band stand out front to sound check the band that they are mistaking the loudness of the bass with the beef coming 5from the kick drum from front of house ethier that or they generally just like the bass to be lower in the general mix (however its so frustrating).  I personally say to the band that 95% of players I know take two 12' cabs to do the same kind of gigs so I cant understand there issue with the volume.

Anyway Im thinking of changing my bass head or at least my spare to a MarkBaas Little Marcus800 or and Markbass Tube 800 or maybe a Ninja.  I plan to pair this with my Vanderkley and hoping it will suit.  Oh if anyone is wondering Im using an Overwater 5 strings new progress shape with a John East Uni Pre 5.

 

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and suggestions. 

 

Si

[bertbass]

Not a single problem here I'm guessing.

 

Are you wireless or have a long lead?  Take a stroll out front during a sound check and listen for yourself and then decide if your bass is too loud or not.  If it's OK out front, which is where it needs to be nicely balanced and you still can't hear what you're playing, you need to get your cabs nearer to your ears or perhaps tilt the cabinet back  so you can hear it.  

 

Does the keys player have a busy left hand?  Your band mates could be hearing that and blaming you.

Is the guitarist stealing your frequencies?  Too much bass on the guitar can sound an awful lot like bass.

Do you cut a lot of mids?  This can cause you to not hear what you are playing and to turn up to compensate.

It's very unlikely that your gear is at fault.

[Japhet]

If I was still doing functions I'd most likely have a Fender Rumble 500 combo. I know it's not in the Vanderkley, PJB bracket for quality but it's a lightweight, powerful, single unit that's ready to plug in and play. You can sometimes get a bit pushed for time to set up at functions as well. The 500 combo could easily be put up on a stand as well so that you could hear it better.

[Lozz196]

Why not call their bluff and get everything set up but back off on your bass to the pont where it`s virtually inaudible, then when they tell you it`s still too loud ask them all to stop playing, then you play at your cut volume. At this point you`ll for one no longer have them blaming you for too much volume, and then not have to worry about buying ne "more suitable" gear. I emphasised that as your gear is fine.

I think @bertbass may have hit it here, a keyboard player with a busy, heavy left hand.

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, siphillips said:

Anyway Im thinking of changing my bass head or at least my spare to a MarkBaas Little Marcus800 or and Markbass Tube 800 or maybe a Ninja.  I plan to pair this with my Vanderkley and hoping it will suit.  Oh if anyone is wondering Im using an Overwater 5 strings new progress shape with a John East Uni Pre 5.

Markbass plus VK should work really well! 

The Little Marcus800 does sound excellent - seems to have nailed the EQ points (in particular no longer a gap in the treble range at around 1.5khz to 5kHz and the low end centred at 65 Hz and not 40Hz)

 

[siphillips]

1 hour ago, bertbass said:

Not a single problem here I'm guessing.

 

Are you wireless or have a long lead?  Take a stroll out front during a sound check and listen for yourself and then decide if your bass is too loud or not.  If it's OK out front, which is where it needs to be nicely balanced and you still can't hear what you're playing, you need to get your cabs nearer to your ears or perhaps tilt the cabinet back  so you can hear it.  

 

Does the keys player have a busy left hand?  Your band mates could be hearing that and blaming you.

Is the guitarist stealing your frequencies?  Too much bass on the guitar can sound an awful lot like bass.

Do you cut a lot of mids?  This can cause you to not hear what you are playing and to turn up to compensate.

It's very unlikely that your gear is at fault.

Hey man thanks for your response. Sometimes the keys player does sit in the lower register and I do tell him to stay out my zone lol. I wouldn’t say he’s “busy there rhythmically but rather favours the register from time to time”. I tend to find the guitarist fold back from the monitor almost steals some of my frequencies when he switches to his more beefy pick up from some songs. 

I actually boost low mids and high Mids to push through a bit. 

Im not blaming faulty gear sorry I never really made that clear lol. I suppose I’m asking about two things a new bass head for the job as I need a new spare. The other is just general obstacles that I’m finding when on gigs. Thanks for your info though dude. 

[chris_b]

Best rig for. . . . I use the same rig for everything. I'll add speaker cabs if I need to be louder than normal but 1 rig does it all for me.

One thing springs to mind, looking at the list of gear you mention, I don't think you have a gear problem. So buying yet another rig isn't going to work.

If everyone else bar you is in the FOH and monitors then their stage level won't be loud and yours will. If your rig has to carry the room then it will be louder than everyone else. Common bloody sense tells you that is what will happen. Rules of physics apply.

You need a level playing field. You need to hear yourself, the bass has to be loud enough out in the audience and the band doesn't want to be swamped by bass on stage. . . . so put the bass through the FOH and fold back. QED!!!

 

[jrixn1]

6 hours ago, chris_b said:

 put the bass through the FOH and fold back.
 

↑↑↑ Agree with this. 

I play weddings/functions and the FOH is 100% covered by the PA, so my only concern is the on-stage sound.  Try doing gig with no bass amp, and instead put the bass through the monitors.  What I did for a while to give me confidence was set up my bass rig as normal but then keep it muted.  Therefore I did not have to worry, since I reasoned that if could not hear myself for whatever reason during the gig, I could just unmute the amp.  But in the end, I never needed to.  I have now sold my bass rig and just use a powered speaker monitor.

[stingrayPete1977]

Unless I'm on a big stage I don't really want much or any guitar fold back unless they are on in ears or amp simulator. 

I'd ditch the old fashioned amp and go for a powered wedge, point it at your head and enjoy lower stage volumes and a clearer mix out front. 

Get a good full range one and you can put the band mix into your own monitor along with your bass. 

[Linus27]

7 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

Why not call their bluff and get everything set up but back off on your bass to the pont where it`s virtually inaudible, then when they tell you it`s still too loud ask them all to stop playing, then you play at your cut volume. At this point you`ll for one no longer have them blaming you for too much volume, and then not have to worry about buying ne "more suitable" gear. I emphasised that as your gear is fine.

I think @bertbass may have hit it here, a keyboard player with a busy, heavy left hand.

I had the exact same same problem once with a drummer. He kept complaining the bass was too loud. This went on for quite a few rehearsals and I turned down, changed the EQ but he still complained. So one rehearsal we went through it and I kept asking if I was too loud and he kept saying yes and it got to the point where I turned my amp off and still played and I was still too loud. So I pointed out to him that I'm not even turned on. Turned out it was the rhythm guitar that was too loud 😂

[xgsjx]

If I was in a function/wedding band, I'd opt for no backline.  Just a decent FoH & IEM.  Much easier to set up & get everyone balanced properly.
May be worth employing a soundy if needed.

Edited May 8, 2018 by xgsjx

[Muzz]

In our function wedding trio it's FOH/IEMs. Brilliant for load ins and outs, some of which can make a pub fire escape look like a bowling green. For example, we played Crewe Hall on Satdy night, and while it's a magnificent Jacobean Mansion, when Sir Randolph Crewe was building it he gave very little thought to the problems of loading in and out to a gig in the Long Gallery on the 2nd floor.  You could have offered me any backline bass rig in the world for the evening, and I'd still have told you to stuff it. Politely, of course. 

[EBS_freak]

No rig is the best rig!

Put your money into PA (get it to do the work for the whole band - it will sound more balanced and easier to control in more difficult venues) inears (or decent wedge - eg don’t skimp and buy a cheap one) and a decent modeller (and that doesn’t mean expensive!)

[la bam]

23 hours ago, Muzz said:

In our function wedding trio it's FOH/IEMs. Brilliant for load ins and outs, some of which can make a pub fire escape look like a bowling green. For example, we played Crewe Hall on Satdy night, and while it's a magnificent Jacobean Mansion, when Sir Randolph Crewe was building it he gave very little thought to the problems of loading in and out to a gig in the Long Gallery on the 2nd floor.  You could have offered me any backline bass rig in the world for the evening, and I'd still have told you to stuff it. Politely, of course. 

Ahhhh.....crewe hall....

Did you keep having the lift shut on you and nobody around to tell you the code?

And load out through the scary dungeon kitchens and plastic butcher doors!

Its a spooky place!

[Dan Dare]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the equipment you have. It will do all you ask of it (and well - it's all high quality stuff). You will just be wasting money chopping and changing and will notice little if any difference. Bertbass makes good points (particularly about frequencies reinforcing each other) and I agree with suggestions to route the bass through the FoH rig and lift your rig up so you hear it better.

[lemmywinks]

On 07/05/2018 at 12:11, siphillips said:

I play within a 5 piece band x2 vocals guitar, keys , drums.  I find my band mates sometimes telling me that the bass is too loud even just using the single Vanderkley on its own. (I sometimes find this hard to believe as I sometimes find it hard to hear myself on stage with the other instruments coming through the 2 stage monitors (X2 vocals, keys guitar and kick and sometimes violin).

If everybody else thinks you're too loud but you're struggling to hear yourself then the solution probably isn't buying a different amp which does pretty much the same thing. Get an amp stand so you can angle your cab up at you or if you do want to change rigs then get something that can be kicked back into a wedge format (Markbass did cabs and combos like this) or just buy a good quality PA cab which also caters for this. I went through a few different solutions and ended up with a QSC wedge which is great as well as being tiny enough to fit anywhere on the stage.

 

You could skip this entirely and get in ears, you won't have any volume issues then and it's even less to carry!

[Muppet]

Every three/four months as band we set up and do a dress rehearsal. The rest of the rehearsals we do at very low volume so we can talk through new songs without bursting eardrums. 

At the dress rehearsals we focus on sound quality on stage and front of house and the flow of the set as well as set up and take down of equipment (I know, it sounds a bit anal).  Quite often someone's bought a new bit of kit and this helps with how it fits in the mix. This gives us a baseline which means we're not running around during gigs saying we can't hear ourselves or that someone is too loud. Doing that at a gig just gets people stressed. 

Now if you hate the tone you're getting out of your current setup then, well that's another matter entirely......

 

 

[chris_b]

34 minutes ago, Muppet said:

(I know, it sounds a bit anal).

Not at all. Sounds like a very professional band to me.

[Damonjames]

What bass are you running???

i suspect that your issue is not your amp, but either your eq, or the height of your cab. 

If it is not either of the two, then you are getting frequency interference from another or multiple band members. 

 

[TKenrick]

On 5/7/2018 at 21:39, xgsjx said:

If I was in a function/wedding band, I'd opt for no backline.  Just a decent FoH & IEM.  Much easier to set up & get everyone balanced properly.
May be worth employing a soundy if needed.

 

On 5/7/2018 at 21:52, Muzz said:

In our function wedding trio it's FOH/IEMs. Brilliant for load ins and outs, some of which can make a pub fire escape look like a bowling green. For example, we played Crewe Hall on Satdy night, and while it's a magnificent Jacobean Mansion, when Sir Randolph Crewe was building it he gave very little thought to the problems of loading in and out to a gig in the Long Gallery on the 2nd floor.  You could have offered me any backline bass rig in the world for the evening, and I'd still have told you to stuff it. Politely, of course. 

 

21 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

No rig is the best rig!

Put your money into PA (get it to do the work for the whole band - it will sound more balanced and easier to control in more difficult venues) inears (or decent wedge - eg don’t skimp and buy a cheap one) and a decent modeller (and that doesn’t mean expensive!)

All of these. I've largely given up taking an amp to gigs and have never been happier - a decent D.I. and some IEMs will resolve any battles over monitor mixes and you can make sure that you can always hear yourself without upsetting other band members.

In-ears don't have to be expensive; provided you aren't running around too much, you could opt for a wired headphone pack and some non-moulded headphones (lots of people I work with use the shure 215s and love them). 

The funny thing about bass gear is that nobody else really cares apart from a handful of other bass players on the internet.

[EBS_freak]

21 minutes ago, TKenrick said:

In-ears don't have to be expensive; provided you aren't running around too much, you could opt for a wired headphone pack and some non-moulded headphones (lots of people I work with use the shure 215s and love them). 

215s are a good entry point however, there’s a lot of bang for buck in the KZ ZS10 - 5 driver hybrid for circa 40 quid.

Anybody looking for inear pointers, check out the thread in the Accessories and Misc section. I don’t think you’ll find as much information in one place as you’ll find there! 100 quid based on a hard wired connection.

[mrtcat]

22 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

No rig is the best rig!

Put your money into PA (get it to do the work for the whole band - it will sound more balanced and easier to control in more difficult venues) inears (or decent wedge - eg don’t skimp and buy a cheap one) and a decent modeller (and that doesn’t mean expensive!)

This. All day long.

[xgsjx]

36 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

215s are a good entry point however, there’s a lot of bang for buck in the KZ ZS10 - 5 driver hybrid for circa 40 quid.

Anybody looking for inear pointers, check out the thread in the Accessories and Misc section. I don’t think you’ll find as much information in one place as you’ll find there! 100 quid based on a hard wired connection.

Cheers for the pointer.  I'm gonna have a look.  So far, my IEMs have been a pair of Apple earbuds.

[Damonjames]

Really?? 215’s????

i have a set and find them fine for vocals but they become overloaded with bass frequency very easily!!! Any time I have tried to run them with bass through they just distort!

[EBS_freak]

2 hours ago, Damonjames said:

Really?? 215’s????

i have a set and find them fine for vocals but they become overloaded with bass frequency very easily!!! Any time I have tried to run them with bass through they just distort!

Same with me - they don’t cut it for bass in my opinion! Same with the M6s.

Edited May 10, 2018 by EBS_freak