Jam nights - cliquey

[lozkerr]

52 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

I think the two get confused too easily.

I'd make the following distinction:

• a jam is where people who are not already in a band together can meet over mutually agreed numbers
• an open mic is an opportunity for bands or individuals to try out their material in public.

And just to confuse things, our local has open jam nights  I'm thinking of toddling along once I've cracked My Generation...

[Damonjames]

Absolutely. 

In my experience, if you want to attend a jam night, it is really a two step process. 

1. Go, introduce yourself and ask for a list of half a dozen songs they play regularly, and go away and do your homework. 

2. Go, say remember me? Can I get up and play one or two? I learned all the songs in your list, so happy to step in on any of them. 

Once you have proven yourself capable, you should then be able to attend more regularly and get more opportunity  ultimately, I was running a jam night, I would be hesitant to just let someone unknown get up and have a bash when I know I have a room full of regulars who can help me entertain the punters!!

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Damonjames

[Geek99]

1 hour ago, Les said:

Thanks, that's cleared that up. So basically no house band at an open mic ?

well not quite - I went to my first OM and there was a house guitarist who would support a lone vocallst or a group of kids. Not  quite the clapton wannabe that others describe, more a support crutch if you need one. 

[magee]

I have been to quite a lot of jam nights over the years. I think some can be cliquey, and some can appear so but actually the host is juggling competing priorities the punters don't know about, and they jump to the wrong conclusion. 

Certainly a long-running jam will grow to reflect the taste of the hosts as they will give longer time and more prominent slots to people they rate - that's natural and OK by me, as long as less able people at least get a chance to play at some point.

I love going to jams if my band's having a quiet month as it gets me out the house and playing in front of people with no hassle/gear/organising. 

I also love how it develops my playing and overall musical awareness. Playing with a group of randoms of at-times extremely mixed ability is a great test of how your decision-making as a bass player can hold a fraying song together. Helping the drummer find the 'one' in a bar; sticking to roots to help a guitarist understand the key or progression; controlling the dynamics to encourage a guitarist to stop hair-dryering the front row with a blistering solo for a sixth minute - it's a fun, low-pressure way to develop skills that have helped me become a better group player. 

You really understand how quietly influential the bass can be in shaping the tone and colour of a song. It stretches your listening and reacting muscles in a way that another run-through with your well-rehearsed band doesn't always do.

And occasionally there is some unexpected musical magic and you step down off the stage with the sense that you really made some affecting, spontaneous real music. That feels great. 

It's also the best way to meet/hear players who you might want to use in the future in a band, or who might want to use you, or to test out players you've found via ads without going through an excruciating formal audition. 

 

[KevB]

49 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

jam nights and open mic nights are different things but they can happen at the same time.

I think this is where they work at their best. In fact nearly all the jam sessions I've regularly attended have been like this. I picked Paul's comment as I know he used to go to same pub as me for different jam/open mic nights. I found it odd when I read of people mentioning on here the 'big difference' between the two when in my experience both frequently happened at the same sessions. The 'free form blues jam' thing perhaps not so much as any organiser worth his salt won't let anyone hog the stage incessently unless it's a particularly dead session.

I found at least one band as a result of going to these types of sessions and when I used to fill in for the house band bassist (and eventually took over the role permanently) my standard of playing took it's last major jump up to a better level than what I'd been doing before. I had dabbled with a blues jam night in the 90's but it was terribly cliquey and eventually put me off as there was little encouragement from most of the seasoned players there. I thought if I was in a similar position in the future I'd try to be more engaging and encouraging myself and 15 or so years later I hope I lived up to that.

[KevB]

1 hour ago, Les said:

Thanks, that's cleared that up. So basically no house band at an open mic ?

There was always a house band at the local one I went to most after moving to the area I'm in now in 2007. That's when they worked best. House band did a short spot to get the thing rolling then one or more house band members would either sort out time slots of already functioning bands who came as a unit to play or sort individuals out into on the spot bands (filling in if there werent enough of a particular muso around) or the house band acts as a backing band for someone just wanting to get up and sing. Sometimes we'd have to get a singer to come back the following week if it was something obscure we needed to go away and learn.

[nightsun]

Chuck my tuppence in...

I've been running blues jams for many, many years, and there are as many ways to run a jam as there are stars in the sky.  Most of the basics have been covered, but a few things to bear in mind from the hosts point of view:

• We are there to attract punters; musicians and non-musicians into the venue to spend money on alcoholic beverages (and crisps). If alcoholic beverages (and crisps) are not purchased then the chances are the Jam won't be there for long.
• This is a careful balancing act
  • Musicians want to play.
  • Punters want to be entertained
• Get the balance wrong and you end up with a room of musos nursing a pint all night, or the house band playing a 3-hour gig for thruppence.
• What may look like a clique to you, looks to me like my reliables.  They turn up every month without fail and without them there probably wouldn't be a jam.  
• If you are new come and say hello
  • Tell me what you like to play
  • Be honest about your ability, if you're a bit unsure say so, I'll get you up with some experienced musos to help you along.
  • Put your name on the list of jam and you WILL get called up
• Everyone WIll get at least 3 numbers, I can't guarantee when (see the balancing act), see above
  • if you need to leave early, again let me know, I'll accommodate you in the grand scheme of things if I can
• I run Jams because I love playing with friends I don't get to gig with. I love watching something come together from nothing, from musos that may have never met let alone played with each other.
• I most certainly don't do it for the kudos or the money.

 

So if you attend a Jam and it seems a bit cliquey, consider the internal political bollocks that may be in play to ensure that the Jam is there the next time you fancy a little no pressure play.  Of course, some Jams can be really cliquey, I don't go to them either :-)

 

[The59Sound]

Start your own band if you want to play music you enjoy (and play it all the time too) ?

[nightsun]

13 minutes ago, The59Sound said:

Start your own band if you want to play music you enjoy (and play it all the time too) ?

I do that as well.....

[Dan Dare]

28 minutes ago, nightsun said:

Chuck my tuppence in...

I've been running blues jams for many, many years, and there are as many ways to run a jam as there are stars in the sky.  Most of the basics have been covered, but a few things to bear in mind from the hosts point of view:

• We are there to attract punters; musicians and non-musicians into the venue to spend money on alcoholic beverages (and crisps). If alcoholic beverages (and crisps) are not purchased then the chances are the Jam won't be there for long.
• This is a careful balancing act
  • Musicians want to play.
  • Punters want to be entertained
• Get the balance wrong and you end up with a room of musos nursing a pint all night, or the house band playing a 3-hour gig for thruppence.
• What may look like a clique to you, looks to me like my reliables.  They turn up every month without fail and without them there probably wouldn't be a jam.  
• If you are new come and say hello
  • Tell me what you like to play
  • Be honest about your ability, if you're a bit unsure say so, I'll get you up with some experienced musos to help you along.
  • Put your name on the list of jam and you WILL get called up
• Everyone WIll get at least 3 numbers, I can't guarantee when (see the balancing act), see above
  • if you need to leave early, again let me know, I'll accommodate you in the grand scheme of things if I can
• I run Jams because I love playing with friends I don't get to gig with. I love watching something come together from nothing, from musos that may have never met let alone played with each other.
• I most certainly don't do it for the kudos or the money.

 

So if you attend a Jam and it seems a bit cliquey, consider the internal political bollocks that may be in play to ensure that the Jam is there the next time you fancy a little no pressure play.  Of course, some Jams can be really cliquey, I don't go to them either :-)

 

This. It's spot on. Those the OP refers to as members of a "clique" probably turn up every week come rain or shine to support the jam. As stated, if attendance is sparse and insufficient drink, etc is purchased, It's highly likely that the bar/pub (which is a business and has to make a living) will decide to try something else before too long. When I go to a jam I haven't visited before, I do as suggested - say hello, tell them honestly what I do and don't expect to be given half the night to myself (although the last time I went, there was only one other bassist apart from the house band player and I ended up playing with several sets of people, which was fun).

Edited May 9, 2018 by Dan Dare

[SpondonBassed]

2 hours ago, lozkerr said:

And just to confuse things, our local has open jam nights  I'm thinking of toddling along once I've cracked My Generation...

F-f-f-f-f-fantastic.  (Who said that?)

[SpondonBassed]

Our local Folk and Acoustic Club (Vernon Arms, Spondon, Tuesday nights) simplifies things by not calling it a jam night nor an open mic night.

Anyone who shows up with suitable material gets two songs in their turn.  Ability is not usually an issue.  It is well populated each week.  The host will usually kick off with a couple of songs that he accompanies with guitar.  If it's a quiet night there are almost always enough players to go around a second time.  Then, a few times a year, a folk act will be booked as guests.  That's quite a good night too.

Isn't it funny that so many find jams and open mics more cliquey than a club night that charges a pound to non-members if you're performing and two pounds if you just want to listen?

Edited May 9, 2018 by SpondonBassed

[Happy Jack]

1 hour ago, nightsun said:

I've been running blues jams for many, many years ...

And it shows in the quality of that post. I was about to post, before I read yours, that every jam takes its character directly from the organiser. 

I played for years at the famous Blues Jam at the Kings Head, Acton / Drayton Arms, Hanwell run by the late, lamented Andy Falconer. Andy wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but by God did he know how to run a jam, and his approach was exactly the same as yours.

It must be six, seven years since he died and I've never yet found another jam in West London that really clicked the way his did.

Closest I ever got was the old Red Lion jam in Twickenham before its many moves (the Red Lion is now a Tesco Metro) but even that had some serious issues, enough to have me give it up.

I've recently been trying out the local jams again, having moved to a different part of London. F*** me, but there are some appalling messes out there ...

 

[markdavid]

I think part of the problem is that even if they are not trying to be cliquey you will always find that when someone has their turn to play they will often request specific musicians to play with them, this whilst understandable can make the problem seem worse

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 26, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[SpondonBassed]

4 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

the old Red Lion jam in Twickenham

Not an open mic or jam but I used to love the Mulberry Tree when it was a music pub.  It was a restaurant last time I looked it up.

[lozkerr]

41 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

F-f-f-f-f-fantastic.  (Who said that?)

I don't know, but I just wish they would just f-f-f-fade away...

[chris_b]

2 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

Not an open mic or jam but I used to love the Mulberry Tree when it was a music pub.  It was a restaurant last time I looked it up.

The Albany, Hob Goblin, Red Lion,  Mulberry Tree, Barmy Arms, Turks Head, The Crown and at least 2 more whose names escape me, all gone as regular gigs.

Are the George or Fox still putting on gigs?

The Cabbage Patch is still active, any I've missed?

[yorks5stringer]

I've run and, attended both Open Mics and Jam Nights and have tried to be the resident bassist on both types, stepping down when another Bassist turns up. Used to hate it when I'd turn up at someone else's Jam and see 5 other Bass cases in the pile and work out I'd get about 15 mins playing all night! There's one Blues jam I used to go to and the guy who ran it had his partner play Bass and no matter how many Bassists turned up you'd get your 15 minutes then she'd play the rest of the night. If you were on guitar or vox you'd get called back up, but never on Bass....

The worst one I ever did was Blues Jam which I ran until I totally lost patience with guitarists who spent 10 minutes  setting  out all their pedals , then tuning up ( having to borrow a tuner first-another 10 minutes) and then play over the other soloists ( sax and keys) at ear-splitting volume....

[chris_b]

10 minutes ago, yorks5stringer said:

The worst one I ever did was Blues Jam which I ran until I totally lost patience with guitarists who spent 10 minutes  setting  out all their pedals , then tuning up ( having to borrow a tuner first-another 10 minutes) and then play over the other soloists ( sax and keys) at ear-splitting volume....

If they get 2 tunes, tell them that their messing about has just used up their first tune.

[T-Bay]

We have done a few, good ones are a right laugh, bad ones see you play while the other bands on look on trying to pick faults with what you are doing. My favourite is admittedly run by a mate, but that aside, it really is just a turn up and play and whether you have been once or a hundred times people are supportive and friendly. In one night we have had some pretty heavy stuff and five minutes later an elderly regular doing Sinatra. It’s a broad church when done well.

[PaulWarning]

21 minutes ago, chris_b said:

If they get 2 tunes, tell them that their messing about has just used up their first tune.

number of tunes is no good, tell them they've got 10 minutes, otherwise some of them could be on for half an hour

Edited May 9, 2018 by PaulWarning

[Les]

My only experience of jam nights is being the house bass player for a year, finished about a year ago. I'd never been even been to one before.

Have to say I don't really agree with some of the things I've read. 

We had a couple of nights were basically we played for pretty much the whole night as there wasn't anyone other players there but all in all I considered it a failure if the house band we're playing at all other than backing someone. We were being paid and as far as I was concerned it wasn't about us. It was about other people getting  chance to play, using us as they saw fit or doing it themselves. Quality was never an issue, it's a jam night and even if you were rubbish but you wanted a go that was totally the point.

Had a couple of busy occasions were I was apologising to people walking out at the end with a guitar case that hadn't been opened cos; it was too busy and that felt like a fail too.

There was nothing cliquey about our jam night and upyourownarseness was certainly frowned on.

 

[Bluewine]

9 hours ago, shoulderpet said:

Yeah I would agree , funny thing is when I have been going for a while (just recently started becoming a little disillusioned by them) and first time I went, I ended up being on last for 1 song which I accepted as it was a busy night and I accepted as it was the first time I had been there, now months on and no longer the new guy it is obvious that I am just not part of the clique so I get the 3 songs and no more unless the place is completely dead.

In my area they have " open mic" nights. Mostly acoustic and primarily for local singer song writers that need a chance to perform live in front of an audience.

Jam sessions are only for the heavy hitters and you have to be invited.

 

Blue

[Deedee]

Definitely.  In my experience they seem to start out with the best intentions but then quickly become little more than a social gathering where the usual suspects are given a platform on which to inflate their already sizeable egos and share jokes with the in-crowd.

I think it’s destined to happen as when these things start the organisers often rely heavily on such folk to get the thing going. Once it’s up and running, it can become a monster!

Do I sound bitter??? 😂