Jam nights - cliquey

[Happy Jack]

13 hours ago, leschirons said:

Surely "H** J**" should really not be mentioned in a jam night thread.

Oiiiii!!!

I resemble that remark ...

[nightsun]

@geek99, it can be a bloody nightmare, especially when you start having musos dictate who they will and won't play with.  Again it comes back to the politics/balancing act of keeping it entertaining for the punters, interesting for the musos and profitable for the landlord.

[EliasMooseblaster]

25 minutes ago, nightsun said:

Forgot that on my list, please, PLEASE, don't play something that has already been played....

A jam I used to frequent with almost religious regularity was very explicitly a blues jam night. Unfortunately this did mean that you could play Blues-cliche Bingo and have a sweepstake on how long it would be before somebody wanted to do Red House, Stormy Monday or Texas Flood.

[EBS_freak]

13 hours ago, leschirons said:

I'm reporting this post to the mods for unacceptable language. Surely "H** J**" should really not be mentioned in a jam night thread. In France, this appears to be the only f*****g song from the f*****g western world that 100% of french f*****g guitarists insist on f*****g playing at every jam night.

Although I'm not bitter about it😂

Hey Joe, that song where guitarists can noodle pentatonic nonsense and convince themselves that they are a better guitar player than their peers because they aren’t playing over a straight 12 bar.

[EBS_freak]

“What shall we play?”

”err... Mustang Sally?”

[stingrayPete1977]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

“What shall we play?”

”err... Mustang Sally?”

Berr b b b

[EBS_freak]

41 minutes ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

Berr b b b

"Stevie, is that ANOTHER thrift shop guitar?"

[Count Bassy]

2 hours ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

A jam I used to frequent with almost religious regularity was very explicitly a blues jam night. Unfortunately this did mean that you could play Blues-cliche Bingo and have a sweepstake on how long it would be before somebody wanted to do Red House, Stormy Monday or Texas Flood.

 

2 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Hey Joe, that song where guitarists can noodle pentatonic nonsense and convince themselves that they are a better guitar player than their peers because they aren’t playing over a straight 12 bar.

 

2 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

“What shall we play?”

”err... Mustang Sally?”

 

All fine songs that are popular for a good reason.

Also songs that a lot of people know. Surely, if it's a jam night then there's little point in going off into something really obscure that nbody knows. That would be bettersuited to an open mike.

[EBS_freak]

3 minutes ago, Count Bassy said:

 

 

 

All fine songs that are popular for a good reason.

Also songs that a lot of people know. Surely, if it's a jam night then there's little point in going off into something really obscure that nbody knows. That would be bettersuited to an open mike.

It's lazy - the problem is that jam nights are not usually full of the randoms, it's the same people going week in, week out, playing the same old tunes, no variation. It's actually a very damaging environment to be in if you want to progress as a musician. It wouldnt be too much of an ask to get together a list of new tunes so people can properly jam through them the following week... it never happens. Why? Because it's effort... and mostly, nobody can be arsed to sit down for half an hour to look through some new chord sequences.... it's all about the stupid, pointless pentatonic noodling at volume... for what seems like an endless duration... especially when said soloists have blown all their fireworks in the first six bars.

[Happy Jack]

Just buy half a dozen copies of The Real Book and leave them scattered about the stage area.

"OK lads, Autumn Leaves in G, a-one, a-two, a-one the autumn leeeeeeeeaves ..."

 

[EBS_freak]

Just now, Happy Jack said:

Just buy half a dozen copies of The Real Book and leave them scattered about the stage area.

"OK lads, Autumn Leaves in G, a-one, a-two, a-one the autumn leeeeeeeeaves ..."

 

Ha! If only!

 

[Count Bassy]

55 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

It's lazy - the problem is that jam nights are not usually full of the randoms, it's the same people going week in, week out, playing the same old tunes, no variation. It's actually a very damaging environment to be in if you want to progress as a musician. It wouldnt be too much of an ask to get together a list of new tunes so people can properly jam through them the following week... it never happens. Why? Because it's effort... and mostly, nobody can be arsed to sit down for half an hour to look through some new chord sequences.... it's all about the stupid, pointless pentatonic noodling at volume... for what seems like an endless duration... especially when said soloists have blown all their fireworks in the first six bars.

All a matter of degree really. They are fine songs, but, yes, there a lot of other fine songs out there that most people will know, or at least have heard at some point.  At the other end of the scale what is the point in playing an obscure song that no-one knows, and doesn't follow some sort of reckognised structure? One of the good things about 12 bar is that it is largely predicatble, so you don't necessarily have to know the song to be able to join in - which surely is one of the core things about a jam night (as opposed to an open mic)?

But yes,  agreeing stuff to have a go at at the next jam seems a sensible way forward.

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by Count Bassy

[SpondonBassed]

22 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

It wouldnt be too much of an ask to get together a list of new tunes so people can properly jam through them the following week... it never happens. Why? Because it's effort... and mostly, nobody can be arsed to sit down for half an hour to look through some new chord sequences....

I felt the same having gone around the room with my set list looking for someone to play melody with me.  I got lots of favourable comments on my set list but it when I'd pick up on comments such as "I like that one" or "That'd go down well here"  I was told "it's too difficult on guitar" and "it's not a standard".

Despite having over thirty well known tunes in my set I couldn't hook up with anyone who'd do the homework and make it happen on the following jam.

Bah!

With @PaulWarninglast year, we'd discussed doing an Open Mic with some tunes that he and Wendy had been doing the rounds with as a punk duo.  He let me have clips of them playing some tunes and I hacked out the bass lines for them at home.  We met up after about a week and did those tunes and one other that we knew each knew independently of each other at the Horse and Groom.  Simples.  It ought to work for Jam nights too

That was, as I realise now, an exception to the rule.

[Leonard Smalls]

7 minutes ago, Count Bassy said:

At the other end of the scale what is the point in playing an obscure song that no-one knows, and doesn't follow some sort of reckognised structure?

As far as I'm concerned, that's "Jammin'"!

But, as Wikipedia says:

A jam session is a relatively informal musical event, process, or activity where musicians, typically instrumentalists, play improvised solos and vamp on tunes, songs and chord progressions. To "jam" is to improvise music without extensive preparation or predefined arrangements, except for when the group is playing well-known jazz standards or covers of existing popular songs. Original jam sessions, also 'free flow sessions', are often used by musicians to develop new material (music) and find suitable arrangements. Both styles can be used simply as a social gathering and communal practice session. Jam sessions may be based upon existing songs or forms, may be loosely based on an agreed chord progression or chart suggested by one participant, or may be wholly improvisational. Jam sessions can range from very loose gatherings of amateurs to evenings where a jam session coordinator or host acts as a "gatekeeper" to ensure that only appropriate-level performers take the stage, to sophisticated improvised recording sessions by professionals which are intended to be broadcast live on radio or TV or edited and released to the public.

I'm all for the improvising/free-flow approach rather than same-old same-old, though it appears that this is much rarer, especially in pub "jam sessions". Still, I guess punters prefer what they know rather than the possibility of a load of self-indulgent musos letting out their inner Derek Bailey/Peter Brotzmann!

[SpondonBassed]

12 minutes ago, Count Bassy said:

All a matter of degree really. They are fine songs, but, yes, there a lot of other fine songs out there that most people will know, or at least have heard at some point.  At the other end of the scale what is the point in playing an obscure song that no-one knows, and doesn't follow some sort of reckognised structure? One of the good things about 12 bar is that it is largely predicatble, so you don't necessarily have to know the song to be able to join in - which surely is one of the core things about a jam night (as opposed to an open mic)?

 

I think of it as setting the bar to the lowest common denominator.

That sounds derogatory but I don't mean it to be.  You are quite right about predictability being one of the good things in 12 bar chug alongs.  However, I don't have particularly exotic tastes in music.  I'd like to open it out a bit.  Like EBS_freak said - it's not a lot to ask.

[KevB]

Spondon, its a shame if the Derby thing has gone I really intended to pop over one week then got sidetracked looking for a new band. As for those chesnuts yes I've played Red House, Hey Joe and Mustang Sally at jams. The big difference is that no one ever got up to dance to the first two. I'll hold my hands up to the occasional Stormy Monday as well...

Edited May 11, 2018 by KevB

[Count Bassy]

18 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

I think of it as setting the bar to the lowest common denominator.

That sounds derogatory but I don't mean it to be.  You are quite right about predictability being one of the good things in 12 bar chug alongs.  However, I don't have particularly exotic tastes in music.  I'd like to open it out a bit.  Like EBS_freak said - it's not a lot to ask.

 I think that, to a certain extent, a jam session should be about working to the lowest common denominator, or somewhere not too far above, so that most people can join it. If you want to show case then you need an open mike, or at least check that everyone at the jam is happy for you to do what could end up being a solo piece.

But yes, having a list of stuff to work on is a good way forward - allows some new material to be introduced without excluding people (as long as said people were at the previous session).

(I've just edited my earlier post as well)

Edited May 11, 2018 by Count Bassy

[SpondonBassed]

13 minutes ago, KevB said:

Spondon, its a shame if the Derby thing has gone I really intended to pop over one week then got sidetracked looking for a new band. As for those chesnuts yes I've played Red House, Hey Joe and Mustang Sally at jams. The big difference is that no one ever got up to dance to the first two. I'll hold my hands up to the occasional Stormy Monday as well...

I've not been in a position to do owt other than check the website.  It'd be a shame if it has wound up for good.  If it's just a case of Andy moving on, the spot might be up for grabs.  It's still a music pub after all.

[Geek99]

4 hours ago, nightsun said:

@geek99, it can be a bloody nightmare, especially when you start having musos dictate who they will and won't play with.  Again it comes back to the politics/balancing act of keeping it entertaining for the punters, interesting for the musos and profitable for the landlord.

i was lucky that it was a church run OM so a fairly relaxed crowd with the requisite number of kids doing violin and so on. 

[chris_b]

I've been in the house band for a jam for a few years now and while things can get samey at times they can also take unexpected and interesting turns. Like the guy who turned up for a couple of months with a Didgeridoo and joined in. They gave him a solo in each number. Then there was the 8 man drum troupe who just about squeezed on stage and sounded fantastic. Shame they only came down a few times. We've had all genres from acoustic bands, violins and rappers to swing jazz singers and one guy who insisted on playing questionable Cuban songs in very bad Spanish accent and all ages from kids to an 80 something year-old to cross dressers. Some of them are a PIA but most are good guys.

We have musicians playing a song they just learnt, bands trying to impress the landlord and get a gig and one band auditioning a drummer. Of course we also get the obligatory guitar maniacs who play interminable Hendrix songs on 11. Fortunately there aren't too many of those. One young lad who started coming down as a 13 year old with his dad was a regular jammer. Andy Cortes is now playing guitar with James Bay.

I don't doubt others have bad experiences but we usually don't. It's a good gig for a Monday night.

[drTStingray]

10 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

Just buy half a dozen copies of The Real Book and leave them scattered about the stage area.

"OK lads, Autumn Leaves in G, a-one, a-two, a-one the autumn leeeeeeeeaves ..."

 

Blimey when did you last go to one - it's all iPads these days!!

I play bass in the house band at a couple of jam sessions and yes, some of these stock numbers occur but we get asked to back jazz singers on standards (keyboard player pulls them up on iReal and away we go).

Examples of what we played last week - Girl from Ipanema (including being asked to play a bass solo..... 😧), Purple Rain, Albatross, Gravity, Dock of the Bay, Johnny B Goode, Flip Flop and Fly, Our Day Will Come, Hey Joe, Fire, Smooth Operator, Simply the Best. So quite varied.

I understand the feeling that these events sometimes feel cliquey in fact I have felt that when going to some of these.

I think it's down to the skill of the house band to include everyone who wants to play as much as possible - for the two I play in i'd say the success of that can be variable. 

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by drTStingray

[dannybuoy]

12 bar being the lowest common denominator? These two seem to get some good mileage out of playing just one chord!

My local jam does this from time to time, it’s a great way to strip everything back to basics, stop worrying about changes and just concentrate on phrasing and responding to what others are playing.

 

[SpondonBassed]

6 hours ago, dannybuoy said:

12 bar being the lowest common denominator? These two seem to get some good mileage out of playing just one chord!

My local jam does this from time to time, it’s a great way to strip everything back to basics, stop worrying about changes and just concentrate on phrasing and responding to what others are playing.

 

That's a much better place to kick off from in my humble opinion.

It does not impose any style on those participating.  Whatever comes out, even if it is in the style of The Blues, is dictated by the participants.

[Phil Starr]

I'm going to have to read this whole thread. I've taken on organising a 'Jam Session'  but it's taking it's own course and I'm not sure what it is going to be. I want it to be a place where musicians can network and hopefully some will grow into 'proper' bands. As it happens all my mates want to do it and will take over the first session completely, in fact I had to stop inviting people. Not as inviting as I hoped. On the plus side the standard of music should be fairly decent and the pub/punters will be pretty pleased.

Gig tonight and the band are adding four unrehearsed songs so I need to leave BC and do some work but I'll be interested in advice when I get back tomorrow.

[Jazzmaster62]

I used to frequent jam sessions but once I started arriving and there were already three or so acts booked to play before anyone else, I realised it was then a gig and stopped going.