White Cloud Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Okay, well I bought a Sire V7 (Marcus Miller) recently - and to be honest I am blown away by the quality of this instrument at this price point. This has however got me thinking who the manufacturers, Sire Global really are? I don't believe for one minute that this is an unaffiliated, stand alone company - based in their own standalone Indonesian factory - producing superb, affordable basses to meet a purely altruistic ethos as per their marketing. For example many players realise that Cort own the Ibanez brand (among many others) and used to produce the lakland Skyline series in Korean and Indonesian factories (which feel VERY similar to the Sire instruments). Does it really matter? Well, no ... maybe yes ... maybe maybe ... but who actually are Sire? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazBeen Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 It’s Gibson.... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBass Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 I was told that it’s Samick, I can’t substantiate that however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyuuga Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 That's a great question. From what I've read it seems that Cort is the third-party that builds their guitars but on their website they specifically mention they have no OEM's (which is very hard to believe). Not sure if anyone will be able to give you a concrete answer since there's no real information (afaik). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cloud Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, kyuuga said: on their website they specifically mention they have no OEM's (which is very hard to believe). Not sure if anyone will be able to give you a concrete answer since there's no real information (afaik). You are right - the claim of having no OEM's is almost impossible to believe. You are also probably right insomuch as nobody will be able to provide a concrete answer - and there could be a reason for this. I agree with the other post re Samick - I suspect it is either them or Cort (or one of their other many affiliates). I really admire Marcus Miller's core value regarding the release of the Sire models ... however given that Cort 'could' be behind them leaves me a little cold considering how they treated their Korean employee's before closing those factory's. If so (and it is a BIG 'if') it would kind of blow MM's standpoint out of the water. Should we, as players even consciously care about this stuff? Personally, I love owning great gear at knock down prices ... but I think I still kinda do ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 They have always claimed to have their own factory which makes only Sire basses, not as in a contracted partner but apparently outright ownership. IIRC all the components are made in house too. I paid £290 for mine 2nd hand if memory serves (Alder V7 5 string, burst/tort) and spent £40 on a used set of Schallers. Unbeatable workhorse, there's literally nothing I'd change about it now. If they did a version with lightweight upgraded tuners then it would be the perfect budget pro level bass, should have done that for the V9 IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 How heavy do the V7s get? I'm tempted to try one, if they are light enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Cort own Ibanez? First I've heard of it! Historically Ibanez is a brand owned by Hoshino Gakki Ten, a Japanese trading company (not a manufacturer) who have contracted numerous factories - including Cor-Tek (Cort) to build their instruments over the last 60 years or so. Can't imagine Hoshino would sell their premium guitar brand to an OEM manufacturer. No idea about Sire - however I very much doubt it's an in-house, single line brand (sounds economically unfeasible), and would not be remotely surprised if a variety of different factories make them. Serial numbers might yield clues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cloud Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 30 minutes ago, fretmeister said: How heavy do the V7s get? I'm tempted to try one, if they are light enough. Well, mine isn't light ... but then again it's not a boat anchor either it weighs in the region of 9.6lbs. Great bass - very punchy and resonant unplugged, which is always a good sign. As I stated earlier, I would liken the build quality to that of a Lakland Skyline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Link to the Sire story here https://www.sire-usa.com/sire-story/ According to Wiki (so read into that what you will) Cort produce guitars for Ibanez. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cort_Guitars 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cloud Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 31 minutes ago, Bassassin said: Cort own Ibanez? First I've heard of it! Historically Ibanez is a brand owned by Hoshino Gakki Ten, a Japanese trading company (not a manufacturer) who have contracted numerous factories - including Cor-Tek (Cort) to build their instruments over the last 60 years or so. Can't imagine Hoshino would sell their premium guitar brand to an OEM manufacturer. No idea about Sire - however I very much doubt it's an in-house, single line brand (sounds economically unfeasible), and would not be remotely surprised if a variety of different factories make them. Serial numbers might yield clues. Apparently so - it would seem that the entire guitar building industry is one that is an extremely complex web of 'who owns who' and 'who builds who'. Don't get me wrong though, I'm no expert. It's ironic in this respect that so many players become hung up on 'brand' loyalty ... given that so many of them are intertwined. The name on the headstock is something of an illusion really once you start rummaging around a little. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cloud Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, ezbass said: Link to the Sire story here https://www.sire-usa.com/sire-story/ According to Wiki (so read into that what you will) Cort produce guitars for Ibanez. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cort_Guitars Good post and thanks for sharing. What I would say however is that this is 'Sire' generated information ... information which purports something of a story, whilst concurrently lacking in any real detail at all. I hope BC'ers don't think that I'm having a cynical go at Sire in any way ... I just never think it's a bad thing to delve below the surface level marketing blurb. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) The Sire Story link is slightly vague on a few points... the CEO is Kyle Kim, and the company is an offshoot of his company Dame guitars. Dame are apparently big in Korea but couldn't break the international market, so they opened Sire in the US. http://www.dame.co.kr/shop/main/intro.php I'd say they're pretty much rebranded Dames... Edited May 10, 2018 by dlloyd 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 I'd still have my V7 5 if it had a workaround for the fretboard radius. The radius is fine for playing, but it means the outer strings are louder than the inner strings. The B string in particular (which was excellent on mine, by the way) was very difficult to tame! If I was on the hunt for a workhorse 5 I'd consider another but either modify the pickups or have the radius flattened out to a nice 12" - 16" compound if the fretboard laminate would allow. Or I'd try the P5 (where I'd probably favour the P pickup anyway) where you can adjust the 2 halves of the pickup accordingly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 "For everybody's information, other major brands of guitars and basses are manufactured in a number of OEM factories. This huge OEM factories deal with more 10 brands under 1 factory alone. There are higher risks for quality to be low within that process, but we at Sire Guitars choose not to accept any OEM orders as this can greatly affect our high standards for quality control. (By the way, we had been offered to make guitars and basses for some of the top notch brand that everybody is aware of but we refused to do this.) " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 16 minutes ago, Bigwan said: I'd still have my V7 5 if it had a workaround for the fretboard radius. The radius is fine for playing, but it means the outer strings are louder than the inner strings. The B string in particular (which was excellent on mine, by the way) was very difficult to tame! If I was on the hunt for a workhorse 5 I'd consider another but either modify the pickups or have the radius flattened out to a nice 12" - 16" compound if the fretboard laminate would allow. Or I'd try the P5 (where I'd probably favour the P pickup anyway) where you can adjust the 2 halves of the pickup accordingly. Can the pole pieces not be tapped up from the rear like on Musicman basses? Seem to remember Stingray owners did that to sort the weak G string they were known for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Just now, lemmywinks said: Can the pole pieces not be tapped up from the rear like on Musicman basses? Seem to remember Stingray owners did that to sort the weak G string they were known for. Probably, or down on the outer poles. I didn't think to do it at the time, and truth be told I needed to free up cash for something else so something had to go... but the decision over selling the Sire would have been a lot more difficult had I not had this constant niggle.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cloud Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, dlloyd said: The Sire Story link is slightly vague on a few points... the CEO is Kyle Kim, and the company is an offshoot of his company Dame guitars. Dame are apparently big in Korea but couldn't break the international market, so they opened Sire in the US. http://www.dame.co.kr/shop/main/intro.php I'd say they're pretty much rebranded Dames... Now this is what I'm talking about - information! Great post. Yes that Dame is a Sire and no doubt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cloud Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 So, in answer to my original question it would appear that Sire are 'Dame' ... well, kind of! The Dame line of basses look excellent incidentally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 hours ago, ezbass said: Link to the Sire story here https://www.sire-usa.com/sire-story/ According to Wiki (so read into that what you will) Cort produce guitars for Ibanez. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cort_Guitars Sire thing reads, surprisingly enough like a bunch of factually vague PR puff. Looking a the Dame range on their website, it's it's a Korean domestic brand - their guitars are generic Gibson/Fender knockoffs & an Ibanez-esque Superstrat. At a guess Dame blagged a Marcus Miller endorsement & used that to launch the basses under the Sire brand in the US & RoW. And yes, Hoshino do contract Cort to build Ibanez branded guitars, like wot I said. If your 90s or later Ibby has a C or a KC prefix then it's a Cort build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Was going to say that there was some talk on Talkbass about the Dame connection. Looks like a successful operation in getting brand awareness outside of their local market. If you do a search on Dame and Sire on google, theres a fair few discussions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahambythesea Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Looking at Dame basses they certainly seem similar to Sire. Couple of noticeable exceptions, the Dame seem to have much more substantial bridges and also appear to have zero frets which I don’t think are on Sires. Perhaps that’s a design influence of Mr. Millar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Grahambythesea said: Looking at Dame basses they certainly seem similar to Sire. Couple of noticeable exceptions, the Dame seem to have much more substantial bridges and also appear to have zero frets which I don’t think are on Sires. Perhaps that’s a design influence of Mr. Millar? Or further cost saving. Marcus' basses don't have zero frets, so why bother if that's who you are using as your marketing gimmick? Saves that awkward - "but none of the basses that Marcus is known for have zero frets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Those bridges are generic types you find on AliExpress, eBay etc. As far as I'm aware they don't offer the wider spacing in 5 string versions so maybe that's why Sire chose them - their 4 strings are 20mm and the 5s are 18mm. I think those bridges on the Dame's are only 16.5mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeonMig Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) Was browsing and stumbled across this. Thread necromancer alert! Just picked up a Sire M7 2nd generation. I initially went to the shop to pick up some odds and ends I needed, tried out the bass on a whim, and bought it that day. I was generally in the market for a 5-string in the ~€1000-€1,500 bracket for some more extreme type of music but wasn't planning an immediate purchase. It blew me away in terms of overall quality and the store manager let me have it for €850 (which was cheaper than most online retailers). I couldn't say no to that! The store manager told me she knew that Sire had a different Korean brand and that they'd set up a US-based company to be more marketable in Europe and the Americas, so looks like it fits in with being Dame guitars as mentioned above. Getting Marcus Miller to stick his name on it as well was a pretty major coup, but I think he still uses his Fender custom model. Plenty of other artists are launching their 'own' lines of instruments these days too (Ola Englund and Tosin Abasi come to mind) so I guess MM knew a good business opportunity when he saw it. Win-win for everyone involved I guess. Dame - Sire... I'm sure that's not a coincidence In any case, it's a sexy beast and definitely a statement. They've managed to come up with a design that while looking kind of similar to some other basses, it doesn't look similar enough for it to be mistaken for something else. In today's market, that's not an easy feat. Edited May 22, 2019 by NeonMig 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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