ZVex Mastotron

[Quatschmacher]

Thanks to @GisserD for giving me the final bits of information/playing samples to give the push to try this pedal out and ultimately buy one.

Anyone interested in aping synth sounds would do well to pick up one of these. The tight gate gives a very keyboard-type response to the notes (hard note on and off) and with it you can create interesting attack transients.

It also does “regular” fuzz sounds if you want to rock out.

Sadly the demos don’t really do it justice.

 

[GisserD]

No worries Peter!

Now sit back and watch the 2nd hand prices soar!!! 👍 

[Quatschmacher]

This thing is seriously the bomb. 

[Al Krow]

39 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

This thing is seriously the bomb. 

If you don't want it blowing up in your face, then set up the following patch on your Zoom MS-60B; you'll get something that'll fool a drunken audience when used in a band mix 99 times out of 100  

Bit crusher-->DirtyGate -->Subby GEQ (with the treble and high mids rolled off and bass and lower mids boosted)--> HPF (AcBsPre - for good measure!)

Edited May 15, 2018 by Al Krow

[Quatschmacher]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

If you don't want it blowing up in your face, then set up the following patch on your Zoom MS-60B; you'll get something that'll fool a drunken audience when used in a band mix 99 times out of 100  

Bit crusher-->DirtyGate -->Subby GEQ (with the treble and high mids rolled off and bass and lower mids boosted)--> HPF (AcBsPre - for good measure!)

Interesting device, and something I’ve never checked out until now. Have you tried using the built in MF-101 or Z-Tron filter patches or any of the bass synth models?

[Al Krow]

27 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

Interesting device, and something I’ve never checked out until now. Have you tried using the built in MF-101 or Z-Tron filter patches or any of the bass synth models?

Just starting to get to grips with them. They're not going to be anything like as good as the actual original devices, but you can certainly get a flavour - a bit like the SA OFD in relation to the drive pedals it's emulating.

[Quatschmacher]

3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Just starting to get to grips with them. They're not going to be anything like as good as the actual original devices, but you can certainly get a flavour - a bit like the SA OFD in relation to the drive pedals it's emulating.

True. I just checked out a couple of videos. One was a guy just playing the unit without any indication of the patch. It was clearly recognisable to me as the MF-101 sound though. One of the bass synth models has both saw and square available if you feel like your MBSS is lacking. 

[Al Krow]

The MB SS has sawtooth only.

The Manta, as you'll well know, is not a synth but a filter, but it has a 'MOD SOURCE' knob with 5 different types of modulation control:

•  Slow attack envelope filter
•  Sine wave LFO
•  Square wave LFO
•  Sawtooth LFO
•  Fast attack envelope filter 

with the ability to blend between adjacent modulations.

Perhaps a bit of a 'newbie' question, but what's the easiest way of understanding what the difference is between what a (Markbass or MS-60B) synth is doing with its sawtooth and what a (Manta) filter is doing with its sawtooth waveforms?

[dannybuoy]

The Manta's waveforms are all LFOs, AKA Low Frequency Oscillators, essentially a control signal to modulate, AKA wobble, your signal.

Synths feature LFOs too but they use higher frequency oscillators - sine, square, sawtooth, etc shaped waves to produce the basis of the entire sound. A  sine is a pure note, different shapes have more harmonic content going on. If you were to add together hundreds of different sine waves of just the right frequencies, you could make the overall waveform look like a square or triangle. That's why a sawtooth waveform sounds much harsher, and also the reason why fuzz sounds like it does - turning your standard sine wave into a square wave, your ear picks up all of these different frequencies that weren't there before.

[lemmywinks]

Bought mine on launch and I love it, even though I got rid of my pedals ages ago this (along with a Korg DT10) is the only effect I hung on to in case I need it. Does that synthy fuzz sound so well as well as straight up fuzz (can ape a black Big Muff pretty well), retains low end and plays nicely with active basses too. I tried a ton of fuzz pedals and found this one to be the keeper, sounded tremendous when paired with the drive from an MXR M80, super clear but absolutely brutal.

Edited May 15, 2018 by lemmywinks

[dannybuoy]

I couldn't get the Mastotron to work for me, seemed very tricky to dial in.

I have a Malekko Unity that has the same issue, heard some amazing sounds out of it just not from me!

The Diabolik on the other hand was dead easy to get a good gated synth fuzz tone out of.

[Quatschmacher]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

The MB SS has sawtooth only.

The Manta, as you'll well know, is not a synth but a filter, but it has a 'MOD SOURCE' knob with 5 different types of modulation control:

•  Slow attack envelope filter
•  Sine wave LFO
•  Square wave LFO
•  Sawtooth LFO
•  Fast attack envelope filter 

with the ability to blend between adjacent modulations.

Perhaps a bit of a 'newbie' question, but what's the easiest way of understanding what the difference is between what a (Markbass or MS-60B) synth is doing with its sawtooth and what a (Manta) filter is doing with its sawtooth waveforms?

Dannybuoy is right. On the Manta the wave forms are all used at low frequencies as modulation sources.

Some of the bass synth models in your zoom have sawtooth and square wave oscillators. And I’m sure they have equivalent LFOs too.

CVs can be used as modulators or as sound sources in synthesis, depending on where they’re directed. If a waveform is directed at pitch or filter input then it’s a modulator; if it is routed straight into the amplifier then it becomes a sound source. It can even do both those things simultaneously. 

[Quatschmacher]

It gets a few appearances in this video:

 

 

[foxyFuze]

Should anyone fancy a budget version of the Mastotron, there's this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B071VSSKTH/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I had one and it sounded pretty good for that tight synth fuzz sound, however I think I had a dodgy one as there was a nasty whine coming from it. Probably just bad luck so for that price I might grab a replacement.

[GisserD]

58 minutes ago, foxyFuze said:

Should anyone fancy a budget version of the Mastotron, there's this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B071VSSKTH/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I had one and it sounded pretty good for that tight synth fuzz sound, however I think I had a dodgy one as there was a nasty whine coming from it. Probably just bad luck so for that price I might grab a replacement.

ive had one, and i can say it does sound pretty good. but its nasaly and weak in comparison to the mastotron. paralell mixed with my meatbox however, it was very usable.

[dannybuoy]

You might have had an active buffer stage before it perhaps? Wooly Mammoths lose all their low end if you use an active bass or another pedal going into it, they're designed to be used hooked up directly to passive pickups. There have been clones made with impedance matching circuitry on the front end but they aren't that common.

[radiophonic]

Bumping this because I'm potentially after one. I have a Pork Loin and a Okto Nojs so I figure either a Pork and Pickle to get a me a Sovtek muff (and keep the ON) or a Mastotron and a Valeton OC10 (and ditch the ON). That way I have drive, fuzz and gated fuzz in 2 pedals.  WRT @dannybuoy 's comment about impedance matching - doesn't the Mastotron have an impedance control to allow you run it passive or active or all the way up to line level? This seemed like a selling point to me - being a died in the wool Stingray player and having fallen foul in the past. 

[Bigwan]

21 minutes ago, radiophonic said:

Bumping this because I'm potentially after one. I have a Pork Loin and a Okto Nojs so I figure either a Pork and Pickle to get a me a Sovtek muff (and keep the ON) or a Mastotron and a Valeton OC10 (and ditch the ON). That way I have drive, fuzz and gated fuzz in 2 pedals.  WRT @dannybuoy 's comment about impedance matching - doesn't the Mastotron have an impedance control to allow you run it passive or active or all the way up to line level? This seemed like a selling point to me - being a died in the wool Stingray player and having fallen foul in the past. 

@dannybuoy's comments are specifically on the Wooly Mammoth and its clones. The Mastotron DOES have impedance matching and works pretty well in line with other pedals/active basses... At least the clone I built did!

As an aside I notice that the Fuzzdog Fat Furry Freak Wooly Mammoth clone kit now comes with the option of a SHOVE control. So you can build your own PCB-based MASTOTRON-a-like for 40 odd quid. Zvex prices are eye-watering...

Edited October 10, 2018 by Bigwan

[lemmywinks]

The Mastotron plays nice with every bass I've thrown at it thanks to the impedance control, IIRC it was one of the things Wooly Mammoth fans with active basses were looking forward to when it launched. I can only agree that prices have gone a bit silly for a basic factory built pedal, I paid in the region of £65 when they came out.

[Al Krow]

On 15/05/2018 at 21:41, lemmywinks said:

Bought mine on launch and I love it, even though I got rid of my pedals ages ago this (along with a Korg DT10) is the only effect I hung on to in case I need it. Does that synthy fuzz sound so well as well as straight up fuzz (can ape a black Big Muff pretty well), retains low end and plays nicely with active basses too. I tried a ton of fuzz pedals and found this one to be the keeper, sounded tremendous when paired with the drive from an MXR M80, super clear but absolutely brutal.

That's pretty high praise.

There's a few of us on this thread who have followed in your footsteps and joined the Mastotron fanboys! Me included  

Despite it's price hike to £129 new (and around £95 used), it's still probably the best gated fuzz available for the money. If there's anything better out there in the same price bracket, I'd love to hear.

The other pedal in this arena which seems to get a lot of love is the 3Leaf Doom, which is described as a "dynamic" fuzz. I'm sure @Quatschmacher or @Dood will be along in a moment to explain exactly what that actually means and how it differs from gated fuzz of the Mastotron and when you might want to use one rather than the other.

[Dood]

21 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

That's pretty high praise.

There's a few of us on this thread who have followed in your footsteps and joined the Mastotron fanboys! Me included  

Despite it's price hike to £129 new (and around £95 used), it's still probably the best gated fuzz available for the money. If there's anything better out there in the same price bracket, I'd love to hear.

The other pedal in this arena which seems to get a lot of love is the 3Leaf Doom, which is described as a "dynamic" fuzz. I'm sure @Quatschmacher or @Dood will be along in a moment to explain exactly what that actually means and how it differs from gated fuzz of the Mastotron and when you might want to use one rather than the other.

I’ll do my best! “Gated Fuzz” is probably my favourite. By adjusting the bias on one of the transistors, it’s possible to get that almost instantaneous cut off of the instrument’s note. I.e it becomes “gated” rather than a smooth sustain. Like lifting the key on a synth. So, in our attempts to make our bass sound more like a synth, this in conjunction with say an OC2 (100% wet) and an envelope filter will drastically change the tone of a stringed instrument.

 

[Quatschmacher]

2 hours ago, Dood said:

I’ll do my best! “Gated Fuzz” is probably my favourite. By adjusting the bias on one of the transistors, it’s possible to get that almost instantaneous cut off of the instrument’s note. I.e it becomes “gated” rather than a smooth sustain. Like lifting the key on a synth. So, in our attempts to make our bass sound more like a synth, this in conjunction with say an OC2 (100% wet) and an envelope filter will drastically change the tone of a stringed instrument.

 

The Doom has no gating. It’s quite middy compared to the Mastotron and is quite high gain past 9 o’clock. It’s a dynamic octave fuzz which responds to playing dynamics. Playing around and above the 12th fret yields an octave up overtone, moreso when rolling off the bass’s tone control.

I’m finding it quite pleasing running my octave into the Doom, with a 60-40 wet-dry mix and then putting the Mastotron with subs on 3 in parallel to that. That tends to drive the envelope filter better. I’ve been running that all into a gating pedal to eliminate gain noise and high frequency noise from having the envelope in down seeep mode. 

[lemmywinks]

5 hours ago, Al Krow said:

That's pretty high praise.

There's a few of us on this thread who have followed in your footsteps and joined the Mastotron fanboys! Me included  

Despite it's price hike to £129 new (and around £95 used), it's still probably the best gated fuzz available for the money. If there's anything better out there in the same price bracket, I'd love to hear.

Glad to hear you're enjoying it, to me it just sounded right from the get go and didn't take any faffing to get the sound I wanted - it's nice when you find a pedal like that! It also takes up very little board space.

Of course someone looking for a different fuzz sound might think it sounds awful which I guess is half the fun, although prices on everything seem to be creeping up. I remember buying and selling Bogdan Helter Skelters and Owen Gremlins for between £30 and £50 a few years ago on here, wish I'd held onto them now!

[Al Krow]

Just now, lemmywinks said:

... although prices on everything seem to be creeping up. I remember buying and selling Bogdan Helter Skelters and Owen Gremlins for between £30 and £50 a few years ago on here, wish I'd held onto them now!

And don't even get me started on London house prices! 😂

[Al Krow]

2 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

Glad to hear you're enjoying it, to me it just sounded right from the get go and didn't take any faffing to get the sound I wanted - it's nice when you find a pedal like that! It also takes up very little board space. 

... more seriously, though, it's the fact that it's a gated fuzz rather than a normal fuzz that's the key for those of us who are looking for a synth bass sound. Add decent filter + octaver and you're good to go. 

It also plays really nicely with other effects as well adding a rich texture to the sound. 

And then there are folk, like you, who just like the sound of the thing by itself! 😎