Sandberg appreciation society

[Al Krow]

39 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Not trying to defend Delano’s but it all depends what you want.

For want of a better phrase, if they sit as being ‘neutral’ that’s not a bad thing, especially if you know ‘your sound’ comes from your amp, pedals, coloured cab etc.

Its all just magnets, bobbins and wires and sometimes wax - the right combination is out there, or you adapt with other things what you have

Haha - mine was actually a genuine Q. 

It's always good to see where folk have voted with their feet.

I take it from your response you have zero Delanos in your herd?

Häussel and Black Label seem to be the aficionados choice for Bergs. Wish they came as 'standard' in basses costing > £1k.

[Cuzzie]

17 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Haha - mine was actually a genuine Q. 

It's always good to see where folk have voted with their feet.

I take it from your response you have zero Delanos in your herd?

Häussel and Black Label seem to be the aficionados choice for Bergs. Wish they came as 'standard' in basses costing > £1k.

Incorrect to a degree - what I was putting across is a way of thinking.

Had a bass with Delano’s - nowt wrong with them or the Glock pre - it’s a fine combination. Don’t have it anymore, nothing to do with the bass Or Delano’s being turd (which would probably have been the inevitable incorrect conclusion).

Have spent time with Delano’s, Sandberg’s normal and black label, Haüssel, Seymour Duncan’s - P, J, PJ, M etc.

Aficionado’s make whatever is in a Berg work - why?

Because it does.......

[Cuzzie]

@Al KrowSo I may say the question is have you spent time with The various different pick ups in different models, or sought out sonic comparisons and listened with you mr own ears to make judgement?

Why do you prefer black Labels or Haüssel and think they should be standard above old sandberg and Delano’s?

Genuine question

There is no right or wrong pick up config or manufacturer here - these are all high quality components.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Cuzzie
Extra question added

[krispn]

 

Many builders offer a choice of pick ups and charges apply according. Marusczyck do and you pay for the different pick ups as per the price it costs them. Having a ‘standard’ spec is pretty normal for a bass builder and if one decides that they want different pick ups it’s not up to the builder absorb the cost same way shuker will charge you for what they don’t normally carry as their ‘normal’ options.

Lets remember the likes of Nordstrand pick ups in an Ibanez it’s very possible Ibanez wind those pick ups in-house to Nordstrand spec? It’s not quite the same as Sandberg or any builder offering pick ups from various manufacturers who have their own operational costs, individual overheads and bottom line to make. 

If one were to buy a Fender what pick up choice do you have other than what comes as standard on that model? Even with the latest up grade to custom shop pick ups. It’s one choice per range. 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, Cuzzie said:

@Al KrowSo I may say the question is have you spent time with The various different pick ups in different models, or sought out sonic comparisons and listened with you mr own ears to make judgement?

Why do you prefer black Labels or Haüssel and think they should be standard above old sandberg and Delano’s?

Genuine question

There is no right or wrong pick up config or manufacturer here - these are all high quality components.

I've certainly not spent any time at all with Black Labels our Haüssel's, that's certainty true. But all the comments about them seem to be positive, which definitely can't be said for Delano's.

I have spent about 4 years with Delanos on my goto Sandberg TM4. They're not bad at all but are indeed hi-fi / polite / tame, whatever adjective you prefer. If I was buying again, I'd want more. 

I very much prefer the Nord big singles on my Ibbys and the Yammy pups on my Yammys to the Delano's on my Berg. No question. That's been my A/B.

There does seem to be a bit of one way journey for Berg owners and it is: Delano's --> Black Labels / Haüssel's. I don't hear about anyone going in the opposite direction?

There's actually a very similar thing with Ibby basses (and folk don't seem to get quite so hung about it, 'cos it's just accepted as being what it is): the Barts on the Standard range are pretty universally regarded as being bland / tame in comparison to the 'throaty' Nord big singles on the SR premium range. It's a one way street with those pups too with no one going back to the standard Barts when they've experienced the Nords.

Hey - this for me is just about sharing experience and honest best practice, between us. Just as I would say to anyone thinking about getting an Ibby for the first time: I recommend steering clear of the Barts on the SR Standard range, I would say the same about the Delano's on Bergs. YMMV etc.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

8 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I've certainly not spent any time at all with Black Labels our Haüssel's, that's certainty true. But all the comments about them seem to be positive, which definitely can't be said for Delano's.

I have spent about 4 years with Delanos on my goto Sandberg TM4. They're not bad at all but are indeed hi-fi / polite / tame, whatever adjective you prefer. If I was buying again, I'd want more. 

I very much prefer the Nord big singles on my Ibbys and the Yammy pups on my Yammys to the Delano's on my Berg. No question. That's been my A/B.

There does seem to be a bit of one way journey for Berg owners and it is: Delano's --> Black Labels / Haüssel's. I don't hear about anyone going in the opposite direction?

There's actually a very similar thing with Ibby basses (and folk don't seem to get quite so hung about it, 'cos it's just accepted as being what it is): the Barts on the Standard range are pretty universally regarded as being bland / tame in comparison to the 'throaty' Nord big singles on the SR premium range. It's a one way street with those pups too with no one going back to the standard Barts when they've experienced the Nords.

Hey - this for me is just about sharing experience and honest best practice, between us. Just as I would say to anyone thinking about getting an Ibby for the first time: I recommend steering clear of the Barts on the SR Standard range, I would say the same about the Delano's on Bergs. YMMV etc.

I would say that the comments you will get  on things like Sandy’s, black labels, Haüssel etc. will probably because people have specifically sought those out, and hence have known what they want - similar to if you have gone for Creamery, Wizard, EMG, SD, Ulyate, Lindy Fralins, Joe Barden etc.

Personally unless they are complete dogs, I wouldn’t move people away from a particular pick up, but that's me. For each of what we have mentioned there will be more for than against or they would be out of business

[Cuzzie]

Reason I don’t show people away from a brand is we all play differently and through different rigs - what works for one may not work for another

[Al Krow]

47 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Reason I don’t show people away from a brand is we all play differently and through different rigs - what works for one may not work for another

Fair enough.

But if you follow that through to its logical conclusion you don't steer anyone away from or to anything, whatsoever. Because "we all play differently and through different rigs".

[blisters on my fingers]

13 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I wonder if any retailers would do a replacement with the Black Label pups without charging for existing unwanted / surplus Sandberg ones or Delanos? Anyone had any positive experience of this. 

I do have a positive experience of this.

The retailer told me to make my own mind up, stop wasting his time and try living in the real world.

My mum agreed.

Hope this helps.

[Cuzzie]

7 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Fair enough.

But if you follow that through to its logical conclusion you don't steer anyone away from or to anything, whatsoever. Because "we all play differently and through different rigs".

Actually Captain that’s highly illogical.

If we take Sandberg as an example there are a finite number of variables (in this case pick ups) it will come with from the factory direct or retailer - within that advice is given.

It appears you would tell someone “don’t get Delano’s because against my Yammy and Ibby’s pick ups they were too....” the Sandberg’s never come with those pick ups so it’s a pointless argument and not relevant to their options in this scenario.

The scenario changes of course if they have a bass and want to change the pick ups. Even then you may not recommend your pick ups you like as they are different in configuration and sizes and that person may not want to rout the bass to accommodate those specific pick ups - of course if they don’t mind routing - it’s open season.

And yes pedals, amp, playing style and material played come into it as well.

Ultimately that way a logical conclusion can be reached 

[Al Krow]

7 hours ago, blisters on my fingers said:

I do have a positive experience of this.

The retailer told me to make my own mind up, stop wasting his time and try living in the real world.

My mum agreed.

Hope this helps.

Yup and back in the real world, retailers are going bust quicker than you can say "Debenhams". 

If that was positive, I hate to think what your bad experiences of retailers must have been, then. 

[dmccombe7]

I'm finding the pick up debate quite interesting.

I have never changed pick ups on a bass in 45 yrs and tend to stick with whatever is on the bass as that's why i bought it. I can't say i've tried the exact same bass with "different" pick ups so i personally have no comparison to make. 

I'm happy with the original Sandbergs on my bass and can't see me changing them but i would like to try the same bass with other pick-ups just to see what the difference is.

What this is has done for me is to consider changing the pick ups on my Fender Precision deluxe which i'm just not overly happy with. It has Fenders own P with the Nordstand J but it just doesn't have a good balance of volume or tone acrss the 4 strings. I'll work on which pick up is causing the problem but think it might be the Fender P.

Cheers chaps

Dave

Edited April 24, 2019 by dmccombe7

[Cuzzie]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BassPlayersMarketUK/permalink/2421501017861512?sale_post_id=2421501017861512&sfns=mo

for Aficionado’s only....

[dannybuoy]

46 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BassPlayersMarketUK/permalink/2421501017861512?sale_post_id=2421501017861512&sfns=mo

for Aficionado’s only....

11.5 lb / 5.2kg

For bodybuilders only, more like!

This is on par with the sunburst TT5 I briefly owned, also with Haussel pickups, which was a similar weight.

[Cuzzie]

True - I am a massive unit!

That bloody extra band on the Preamp causing it probably

[CameronJ]

Ha! My VM5 is probably not far off that weight. Definitely not a light bass...but to be fair I actually am a unit.

Coincidentally, the bass in question is also for sale 

[Cuzzie]

Wink wink

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

I'm finding the pick up debate quite interesting.

I have never changed pick ups on a bass in 45 yrs and tend to stick with whatever is on the bass as that's why i bought it. I can't say i've tried the exact same bass with "different" pick ups so i personally have no comparison to make. 

I'm happy with the original Sandbergs on my bass and can't see me changing them but i would like to try the same bass with other pick-ups just to see what the difference is.

What this is has done for me is to consider changing the pick ups on my Fender Precision deluxe which i'm just not overly happy with. It has Fenders own P with the Nordstand J but it just doesn't have a good balance of volume or tone acrss the 4 strings. I'll work on which pick up is causing the problem but think it might be the Fender P.

Cheers chaps

Dave

Dave - excellent that the discussion has been useful / interesting (and not just a case of me and Cuzzie sounding off!) 

FWIW my own view is that the pups are perhaps the single biggest driver of tone (together with strings) on any given bass. 

Keep us updated on where you get to with your P bass. 

[dmccombe7]

4 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Dave - excellent that the discussion has been useful / interesting (and not just a case of me and Cuzzie sounding off!) 

FWIW my own view is that the pups are perhaps the single biggest driver of tone (together with strings) on any given bass. 

Keep us updated on where you get to with your P bass. 

Its just good to have different points of view on a bass. Yep we are all different and like different things and that's how it should be or we might all sound like the same bass player. 

Think a healthy and helpful discussion is what i enjoy most on BC and having only recently purchased my Sandberg its probably that little bit more interesting for me. I had tried various Sandbergs over the past couple of years but were more than i was willing to pay for a project bass at that time.

Gonna be a while before i get round to changing things on my basses but when i do i'll mention it on BC to get opinions or i might ask for advice before i do anything.

I'm also considering changing the pickups on my Overwater J4 (its not the Tanglewood version. Chris put it together specially for me not long after buying my custom fretless 6er so it has no numbers on it) I just find the pick-ups a bit weak on the low end lack of depth. Still not sure tho as i like basses to stay as they were when i bought them Mmmmm dilemma.  

[Cuzzie]

Always happy to talk pick ups with you fella!

[dmccombe7]

I value the expert knowledge across the BC group. You can be sure you'll get a balanced and more important an honest opinion from people on here. I know a lot of that is down to personal taste but if you find others with similar tastes or views then it helps you make that big decision if changing things around.

Is that not what BC is all about. Helping each other along the road of bass. ?

Dave

Edited April 24, 2019 by dmccombe7

[blisters on my fingers]

23 hours ago, blisters on my fingers said:

I do have a positive experience of this.

The retailer told me to make my own mind up, stop wasting his time and try living in the real world.

My mum agreed.

Hope this helps.

Mr Al Krow  My post started off as a jokey response to your idea that a retailer would swap out pickups at no expense to himself

The scenario was that of a kid in a sweetshop which in my tired and emotional state I neglected to mention.

Do not post when pisshed is my motto from now on 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by blisters on my fingers
and don't bid on ebay when inebriated

[Al Krow]

7 hours ago, blisters on my fingers said:

Mr Al Krow  My post started off as a jokey response to your idea that a retailer would swap out pickups at no expense to himself

The scenario was that of a kid in a sweetshop which in my tired and emotional state I neglected to mention.

Do not post when pisshed is my motto from now on. 

If you can't post on BC when pisshed what's the world coming to? 😁

But on a more serious note, no one is suggesting a retailer do this while taking a financial hit by having to replace unwanted Delano pups themselves. It's more that some of them with decent relationships with suppliers may be able to add value by facilitating a degree of customisation. To add to service / set up / repair and advice. Otherwise in an online world, they are going to struggle. 

For me (and a few others) I won't ever be buying a Berg with Delanos again and I'm not prepared to pay for those pups only to have to replace them. Berg custom shop prices are OTT for me (btw the same point for Warwick, Spector etc).

What I would be willing to spend  around £1k on is a new Berg with Black Labels and 3 band EQ already in place. But I don't think that currently exists or would be an option. So I'd best make my way back to the Yammy thread and leave you good chaps to it on this one... 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

Or speak to a distributor not an online  shop  who buy ready built basses or basses they spec themselves based on what most people buy and find out

[krispn]

The Grand Dark features black labels and a three band eq (Darkglass) but unsurprisingly you pay a bit more for these upgraded features. I believe it’s a 35” scale too but comes in over the £1000.

Its a tricky one as a ‘standard’ model will feature standard parts. If one wanted an Ibanez SR with the ‘upgraded’ Nordstrand pick ups one is potentially looking at double the price to get those features (and that’s maybe a bit unfair as the ‘quality’ and features may appear to be upgraded across all areas of the bass on the higher priced model) over a more standard offering of the non premium models.

Since Ibanez have switched to the Bart BH2 in the mid/upper price range are they an improvement over the cheaper Mk1’s in the lower priced models or more of the same? As the price rises the top of the line Ibanez offer Aguilar pick ups so again this points to a price/parts correlation.

It’s true there are cracking value basses to be had in the mid price ranges of many brands and some folk may avoid a ‘lesser known’ brand and that’s where BC can be helpful but by the same mark when a company like Bartolini offers so many variations of pick ups (as does Seymour Duncan, DiMarzio etc.) it’s hard to justify a blanket ban based on one specific experience with a factory fitted, lower grade pick which has possibly been wound to the spec of the company who have it installed in their model. I say this having used Bart p pick ups and loved them for the warmth and depth they added to a p bass. I’d happily use them again. 

I’ve heard clips of @Al Krow playing his sandberg and I’d agree the tone was was too hi-fi/sterile/midi like and I understand why he’s moved on from that sound as I wouldn’t gravitate to it either  but within the debate on pick ups it’s important to know there’s are as many pick ups out there’s as opinions on them.