The bass tone

[EBS_freak]

Of course, the reality of the situation is that we shouldn't really care, we just plug in to whats available... a bonus if we didn't have to carry it to the gig and back.

[Al Krow]

35 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Of course, the reality of the situation is that we shouldn't really care, we just plug in to whats available... a bonus if we didn't have to carry it to the gig and back.

Ok that's everything sorted then on the subject of bass EQ and we can wrap this discussion up right now. Mods please close the thread. Will that be one lump of FRFR or two with your tea, vicar? 

And more seriously how well does a decent RCF 735A cab handle low end? If it (or another FRFR) can manage 30Hz I'm a convert...

Edited May 17, 2018 by Al Krow

[EBS_freak]

11 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Ok that's everything sorted then on the subject of bass EQ and we can wrap this discussion up right now. Mods please close the thread. Will that be one lump of FRFR or two with your tea, vicar? 

And more seriously how well does a decent RCF 735A cab handle low end? If it (or another FRFR) can manage 30Hz I'm a convert...

Think you missed my point - we do care... and we care a lot... and in reality, we probably care more than we should - because the punters wouldn't know the difference between a good bass sound or not! If all bass tones sounded great through all gear, than the prospect of just turning up and plugging into whatever is amazing... but as individuals, we've grown to care about the sounds that we are producing.

re:RCF : How well does it handle low end? Depends upon your definition of low end. Doesn't do sub bass very well (as in 50 and below stuff). It doesn't do 30hz full stop. Not entirely sure you would want it to either. 50hz is probably around the limit of the useful range for a band - with your kick drum sitting around 65. Will it do it at a decent volume - yes. Will it do it at full tilt? Well, you'd probably want a bit of support.

What I will say though, is put a 735 against your typical equivalently priced bass cab (especially if you can find one that can put out 30hz (also remembering that alot of bass heads HPF to keep the amp from being pressed for largely unusable frequencies also!) and report back.

[PaulWarning]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

Of course, the reality of the situation is that we shouldn't really care, we just plug in to whats available... a bonus if we didn't have to carry it to the gig and back.

you could finish up sounding this though

 

[Cuzzie]

I reckon I could make most rigs sound alright  except an MB Combo.....

[Al Krow]

45 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Think you missed my point - we do care... and we care a lot... and in reality, we probably care more than we should - because the punters wouldn't know the difference between a good bass sound or not! If all bass tones sounded great through all gear, than the prospect of just turning up and plugging into whatever is amazing... but as individuals, we've grown to care about the sounds that we are producing...

...especially if you can find one that can put out 30hz... 

Nah - didn't miss your point at all (I know you / we all do care which is why we are discussing the finer points of bass EQ!)

To your second point - hmmm. Well my VK210 LNT has low freq response of 40Hz. I don't know of any mainstream bass cab that handles 30 Hz - if anyone does I'm really interested to hear.

HOWEVER... https://barefacedbass.com/product-range/Dubster-2.htm

This little beauty can be bought for a measly £1,209 (delivered to your door), weighing in at 46 lbs it can handle 25 Hz and handle a lame 2,400 watts!!! Obviously it's a totally pointless piece of kit given the discussion to date, which is why I guess Alex made it? [Hint: irony (just in case), I know folk have been getting confused / concerned about our pub banter...  ] 

Btw...whichever of my trusted BC buddies said reggae was 'all about mids' (ah yes it's the same one who's struggling with MB Combos), not sure that Alex agrees with you...

Why do I need this?

You want the best reggae bass sound you've ever heard. You're downtuning and want more bottom than your rig can provide. You want the ultimate clean/dirty biamp rig. You're sick of your band's PA sounding feeble. You're sick of blowing up subwoofers. You're sick of hauling huge heavy subwoofers. You're looking for a subwoofer for your band and you want the best one on the market, that has the right balance of size, weight, output, tone and cost - if you find something you think might be better, let us know!

Edited May 17, 2018 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

14 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

I reckon I could make most rigs sound alright  except an MB Combo.....

...especially as you now have the ONE pedal to rule them all, eh? 

But fair do's, I do appreciate that a MB Combo requires greater finesse than you currently may have...

[Cuzzie]

I was going to say I could make it sound excellent even without the worlds best pedal, but mum told me not to lie as well as not talk to strangers, but I seem to be doing that a fair bit on here.

You are right about the finesse, let me know when you find someone to make yours sound good

[Cuzzie]

@Al Krow agreeing with Alex, makes a change for you, you feeling OK?!

I’ll float this about reggae for you, think about what instruments are primarily involved, think about how they are played, think about their sonic territory, then think about the sonic space left that the bass fills.

If you put down the Hertzometer for a minute and think about the sounds and how they blend across not just reggae, but different types and styles of music, what the end goal of the sound is and how individuals play, the journey will be far more fruitful

[dannybuoy]

Acme do cabs that go down to -6 dB at 31 Hz. They need a LOT of power to drive though. With bass cabs, you can get them to go deep, be small, or be loud... pick any two!

Al, get some 18" subs for your next gig, get Cuzzie to lend you his Beefbag and we'll all turn up to experience the true meaning of heft. Of course nobody will be able to hear the other instruments or even focus their vision due to their retinas vibrating, but they are but minor drawbacks to an otherwise excellent plan.

[Cuzzie]

@dannybuoy we are talking about the pedal yes?!

Are Acme still being used by roadrunner

[isteen]

Oh dear, what have I started? I just wanted to sound good in a band situation 😎

[Skol303]

2 hours ago, Jus Lukin said:

Think of us as mates chatting down the pub, without the beer. Or the pub. Or faces. But you know, similar.

If it helps everyone to know, I find this community just as irritating as my friends in meatspace. Which is why I feel so at home here. But then I am a sociopath

[Cuzzie]

@isteen simply our, record or remember the sound at practice, tweak a sound at home that you think folds into it no matter how poo it may sound isolated, store it, then go from there and ignore what it sounds like isolated when you practice, or make a note of those points, go back to a flat EQ practicing and then EQ it back if that makes sense

[Al Krow]

52 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

@Al Krow agreeing with Alex, makes a change for you, you feeling OK?!

Singing Alex's praises is one thing (actually tbf I've always held his gear in high regard, remember my choice of VK210 only just pipped getting a BF BB2), but there's worse to come...I've started to not just use the clean channel on my DG M900 but have been engaging the B3K(!!) on a couple of tracks e.g. Free - Alright Now (where I started using a plec which then got held between my teeth for the guitar solo bit as I reverted to fingers and then back to plec...great fun) and nods of approval from band-mates during rehearsal last night. Didn't I promise you some major penance if I ever used DG dirt and liked it? Well I've just publicly confessed...

1 hour ago, Cuzzie said:

You are right about the finesse, let me know when you find someone to make yours sound good 

Ask this guy: @M@23 sold a Glockenlang head and VK cab for a Markbass rig which he's loving (and may just have bought his favourite bass ever), but that's another story for him to tell on another thread...

Edited May 17, 2018 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

17 minutes ago, isteen said:

Oh dear, what have I started? I just wanted to sound good in a band situation 😎

Spend time practising at home and with your band. Play as many live gigs as you can. The end. 

The rest is just (interesting!) noise.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Al Krow

[Skol303]

7 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I would be interested to know if any folk have bass cabs that go lower (down to 30Hz) or are augmenting their bass cab with a sub woofer to deal with the 20Hz to 40Hz range and, if so, how they have got their rigs set up and what sub woofers they are using?

 

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

This little beauty can be bought for a measly £1,209 (delivered to your door), weighing in at 46 lbs it can handle 25 Hz and handle a lame 2,400 watts!!!

Two things to note here:

1) Don't believe the quoted frequency response of any speakers. Those measurements are nearly always taken in an anechoic chamber and don't translate with much accuracy to the real world.

For example: I have a set of studio monitors that are quoted flat down to 37Hz, but acoustic measurements show they actually start rolling off closer to 50Hz (still plenty of bass there, of course). Bass cabs will be exactly the same. There'll be some energy at those low frequencies, even down to 25Hz in the cab mentioned above. But it'll be a lot less than you think. And certainly less than the speaker manufacturers' marketing materials claim.

2) Subwoofers certainly have their place, but they are hellish to get right at a live gig. My mix room at home has a flat(ish) frequency response right down to 30Hz. I've achieved this through a lot of obsessive faffing around, involving use of a subwoofer; plus room EQ software to get everything <50Hz under control; plus a whole load of acoustic treatment (details in this thread for the nerds).

'Untamed', that same subwoofer creates what looks like Mt Everest in my frequency response and the low end turns to indiscernible mush. So I definitely don’t recommend anyone incorporating a subwoofer into their live rig unless they really know what they’re doing. It’s a guaranteed recipe for disaster

Edited May 17, 2018 by Skol303

[Cuzzie]

@Al Krow public confession is by the by.

The real learning point is not to dismiss and hammer something without researching it (does not include crap pootube videos) actually properly learning about it (yes that includes reading the manual), getting to grips with it, using it in the context you bought it for (that would mean taking it out the house with or without a handbag and using in a band, if that is the goal) and then exhausting all tweakabilities in that context.

Then you can give it a yay or a nay.

It would have been stupid to rigorously stick to an ill thought stance, and you are not a stoopid man.

Congrats on making it work. Onwards and upwards (not downwards, we can’t her that!)

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, Cuzzie said:

Congrats on making it work. Onwards and upwards (not downwards, we can’t her that!)

I wouldn't get too excited, my friend. It was good, but not that good! I only used it 'cos I didn't have my pedal board to hand so it was my only choice for adding dirt into the mix last night!

It's still overly mid scooped and a touch fizzy with my Ibby SR; much more suited to a Yammy BB P-bass. But actually, on reflection, that kinda makes very good sense as the Yammy P is much more mid heavy than my Ibby J bass and therefore compensates for the mid scooping on the B3K. Penny drops  

I think the better conclusion is that I'm slowing acclimatising my band mates to more weird and wonderful sounds from their bassist...wait till they start being subject to synth and wah pedals  (now @isteen that will be a bass tone...)

Edited May 17, 2018 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

Make sure you post your dubstep version of Proud Mary

[Al Krow]

7 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Make sure you post your dubstep version of Proud Mary

Don't tempt me to buy the DOD Meatbox that Cameron is about to wave under our collective noses...

Edited May 17, 2018 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

Could be worse, could be me waving my Beef Bag under your nose

[M@23]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Singing Alex's praises is one thing (actually tbf I've always held his gear in high regard, remember my choice of VK210 only just pipped getting a BF BB2), but there's worse to come...I've started to not just use the clean channel on my DG M900 but have been engaging the B3K(!!) on a couple of tracks e.g. Free - Alright Now (where I started using a plec which then got held between my teeth for the guitar solo bit as I reverted to fingers and then back to plec...great fun) and nods of approval from band-mates during rehearsal last night. Didn't I promise you some major penance if I ever used DG dirt and liked it? Well I've just publicly confessed...

Ask this guy: @M@23 sold a Glockenlang head and VK cab for a Markbass rig which he's loving (and may just have bought his favourite bass ever), but that's another story for him to tell on another thread...

I do miss that amp. But, it took more work to get it to do what I wanted, compared to the Markbass stuff. Markbass just works for me. It's not as beautiful or solid as the Glock, but I plug in and it sounds good whoever the room or band setup. 

[Al Krow]

7 hours ago, dannybuoy said:

Acme do cabs that go down to -6 dB at 31 Hz. They need a LOT of power to drive though. With bass cabs, you can get them to go deep, be small, or be loud... pick any two!

Not really come across these bad boys until you mentioned them. Comments from TBers who have - along the lines of 'Whoa I heard my B string for the first time!'. 

But actually there's a cab from a manufacturer that is highly rated in these parts that has been staring us in the face all along!! (And I suspect is going to be a big step up from the Acme cabs)

Assuming that Alex's frequency response can be believed (see Skol's comments above to trust no one) then the usable frequency range is 30Hz to 20kHz. If that is right then...

5 string players if you want a cab that can handle all your low notes and literally doesn't need to leave anything to the psycho-audio "imagination" to fill in the gaps, this is it:

Hmmm...I think another trip to Bass Gallery in Camden beckons to A/B BF and VK cabs with a particular focus on having a listen to how they handle the low B string. My VK210LNT may just have found its nemesis...  

Edited May 17, 2018 by Al Krow

[CameronJ]

Are you therefore telling us that your mighty Markbass combo is unable to handle the low B on your 5 string basses? 🤔🧐