1965 Fender Jazz - OMG!

[Woodinblack]

I don't mind the colour, in that it is a very 50s-60s colour, so it works on old style fridges and retro bass guitars etc.

But 23k? it is never going to be played, it is going to be collected. It has ceased to be a musical instrument and is now just a relic. Which is unfortunate really as it is the same age as me, and I guess the same is true!

[Burns-bass]

1 hour ago, pmjos said:

Yeah everyone has that thought. Then you play it and you hear 53 years of maturing wood ageing gracefully into a light resonant punchy bit of gorgeousness.

 

They don’t all get old gracefully, sadly... I’ve had my fair share of great ones and duds from all eras. Plus, if this goes to a collecter it won’t get played either, it’ll just sit there doing nowt. Shame!

[paul_c2]

I'd not pay that - even if I had a spare £22k - but I'd play it if someone wanted me to! 

[GuyR]

12 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

There is the other thought - its 53 years old and it is mint condition. Was it really that bad that noone wanted to play it in 50 years?

Mint basses his age are a liability in my opinion. Much better to buy 3 good quality vintage basses with wear for the same price. The law of averages says they are likely to be better as they are only worn because they were worth playing.

things go wrong with vintage basses. Pickups die, switches & tuners break.

who would want the responsibility of a bass like this, with all the potential for value-sapping maintenance & repair?

me

 

[Belka]

Looks nice but that price is unrealistic. If it is all original with a straight neck and fully working electronics/truss rod it is probably worth more like £15,000. 

I honestly think vintage guitar prices from the '50s/60s have peaked. The top of the market was probably 2008, and now as the wealthy boomers slowly fade into history and subsequent generations take less interest in 50s-70s rock, combined with the inevitable de-magnetization of pickups that will eventually require replacement if they are ever going to be played, prices are likely to freeze and perhaps even come down. Don't get me wrong, they'll still be worth a lot, and some Gen Xers and Millennials are still likely to take an interest, but the interest (and finances) won't be there to keep prices going up. 

It seems to be the 1970s models which are rising in value still now. Some might say this is ludicrous due to the reputation for quality in the '70s, but I can see the appeal as they definitely look the part, and if you get a good one it is in no way inferior to a '60s model. To keep it in context however, most '70s Fender basses are still comparable in price to the cost of the new American models, and way cheaper than the custom shops, so you could say that over the course of the 45 odd years they've been out there they haven't really gained much value at all. 

1980s models? Seems to be only Fullerton models and early Japanese Squiers commanding high value (and generally for a lower price than brand new American Original models). Despite the recent Guns 'n' Roses reunion and clamour around Appetite for Destruction as the best record of the '80s, Fender Jazz Bass Specials of the period are still only going for £450-600, and they're now 30 years old. If you go back to the '90s, the guitars/basses of the time that were 30 years old (made in early '60s) were already starting to get silly money paid for them. Yes, they were pre-CBS and that undoubtedly helped, but the nostalgia factor was also important. That goes to show that the nostalgia factor is just not really there for middle-aged people who were young back then. 

Anyway, rant over.

 

 

[Reggaebass]

This is good reading for me as I’m thinking of buying a 70s jazz or the jazz bass elite  I’ve done a lot of reading and 1972 seems to be the best year I already have 9 nice basses  but the early jb,s seem to be a good investment and a bit of fun

[Belka]

1 hour ago, Reggaebass said:

This is good reading for me as I’m thinking of buying a 70s jazz or the jazz bass elite  I’ve done a lot of reading and 1972 seems to be the best year I already have 9 nice basses  but the early jb,s seem to be a good investment and a bit of fun

My experience with Fender Jazzes from the 1970s is that the 76-80 models, although the most likely to be boat anchors and have shoddy construction, actually sound a lot better than 70-75 models, but then again I really like the snappy Marcus Miller tone that only the 76-80 models provide. It might be to do with the weight but I think it's more likely to be a change of pickup done around this time - I think they went from alnico to ceramic magnets which really gave them that snap. If you're after rock/reggae/indie/soul tones however the 70-75s will do very well for you, I'm sure. I think it's the 70-75 models that look the best, with the big TV logo and the proper knobs (not strat knobs).

[Reggaebass]

Yeah i prefer the lower tone and I really like the large logo on the earlier ones and I’m sure they have the 4 screw neck plate  I’ve heard mixed reviews about the 3 screw ones. I’m not far from Andy Baxter’s shop might go and try a few.  Thanks very much for your advice 

[Rick's Fine '52]

70's basses (And guitars of course), are rising in value simply because the 50's and 60's ones are doing the same, but at a sharper rate. There will always be a market for vintage instruments, and people will fall into their budget bracket.

When 60's basses were more affordable, nobody really wanted the 70's basses, because the difference 15 years ago  between a 66J and a 72J , was probably  around 20%, so people paid more for a better playing bass that was lighter, more desirable, and would also be an investment on return (Certainly not losing). The difference now between a 66 and a 72 Jazz, could be as much as 70%, so it pushes even the 60's CBS stuff out of the reach of some, who still want a 'vintage' Fender, so they resort to early 70's basses. 

The pattern has been the same for a long while now, although pre-CBS original finish gear has certainly taken off over the past decade. Many people who always wanted a vintage Fender when younger, find themselves with maybe more disposable income as they are older, maybe kids left home etc, and are now in the market, this is certainly something I've seen. And of course, desirable basses are less than half the price of their 6 string equivalents!

The market over the past 10 years continues to show great returns on purchase prices back in 2008, with many of the more desirable models from the late 50's and early 60's more than doubling in that time, some prices have trebled on certain examples I've seen.

The answer is always to buy something that is a good player, and sounds as you want it to, after that, the most original you can afford, and finally, if you cant decide between 2 or 3, pick the one that would be the best investment. I haven't seen any 'vintage' instruments not increase in value, and some significantly. If you aren't interested in investment at all, then I'd recommend a pre-CBS refin, with otherwise original parts. It will give you the vibe you may be looking for, for less than half the cost. It wont give you the satisfaction or pleasure an original one has, every time you open the case, but its horses for courses.

CITIES is also pushing up prices for rosewood board models, as they become more complicated to send internationally (Its actually not really that bad, you just need the paperwork which can be obtained for around £70), and therefore desirable ones already on these shores become more in demand.

By the way, the one referred to in the opening thread, is a particularly rare custom colour, one of the rarest in fact, add to the fact it has a matching headstock, and its incredible condition, makes for a very rare piece indeed. With the rarest items, there is often no yard stick, or recent sale prices to gauge by, so any seller will naturally start high. I think its quite a high price, especially for what is technically a CBS bass (Albeit with some pre-CBS features), but if you're a Geddy Lee, or someone with some dough, and you want one of the rarest custom colour basses, you won't wait for another, because it probably wont ever turn up. One things for sure in vintage world (Not just guitars, any collectable), if you want something, don't hesitate, because the rare ones don't normally hang around.

If you have around £1500 to spend, which I'm guessing from some of the remarks, I'd go for a first 6 months, 1982 American Vintage P or J (V00*** serial), or a first series export 1982 JV (Large Fender, small Squier decal (JV00***). Those basses are fantastic to play, sound very vintage, will hold their money, have the rarity factor, and are 36 years old themselves now,so tick lots of boxes,a nd you'll certainly get change too!

Good luck with the hunt and trying different things out, that's the best bit!

[Belka]

Sorry Rick, but I have to disagree with you there. Read what George Gruhn has to say about it: 

George Gruhn:

I have been collecting and dealing fretted instruments since 1963 and have operated my shop since January 1970. During that time I have seen many twists and turns, peaks and valleys in the vintage and used instrument market as well as dramatic change in the market for new instruments. There have been times when prices were going up at a rapid rate and other periods in which they were plateaued and other times in which prices were falling due to a variety of factors.

From 1959 through 1963 during the great folk music boom, prices of acoustic instruments were rapidly rising while prices of used and vintage electric guitars were very low due to general lack of demand. It should be borne in mind, however, although prices of acoustic instruments were rapidly rising, they were rising from extremely low prices to prices that were beginning to approach the equivalent cost of a new guitar. People were not paying super premium prices over and above the cost of a new one to get a vintage instrument.

In the mid-1960s the folk boom was winding down, but the Beatles and the Rolling Stones and other rock bands hit, tremendously increasing the demand for guitars both acoustic and electric and many students on college campuses nationwide discovered the appeal of R&B music, and soon thereafter psychedelic rock. Prices of vintage electric guitars soared when some of the premier players discovered the merits of vintage guitars, resulting in rapid escalation of prices of pre-CBS Fender Telecasters and Stratocasters as well as original 1950s Les Paul Gibson models such that some of these instruments increased in value sufficiently that vintage examples were bringing more money than an equivalent new electric guitar in the case of Fenders. Since the single cutaway Gibson Les Paul Junior and Special models were discontinued in mid 1958, the sunburst Les Paul Standard at the end of 1960, and the black Les Paul triple pickup Custom in very early 1961, there was no equivalent new Gibson in the mid-to late 1960s, but original examples were bringing more money than most new Gibson electric guitars at that time.

From 1969 through 1975, during the great folk rock era, rock ‘n roll money was injected into the acoustic market and acoustic and electric guitar prices escalated rapidly with many instruments costing significantly more money than a similar looking new example.

Prices stagnated from 1966 through the mid-1980s and the fretted instrument music scene was at best lethargic. This was a very difficult time for music dealers due to the fact that the baby boomers had largely dropped out of the market and not yet reentered after their midlife crisis. Inflation was very high, and prime rate interest by 1981 was over 20%. This was an extremely tough time for musicians as well as musical instrument dealers.

Market conditions turned around considerably in the mid-1980s when baby boomers re-entered the market and prices escalated significantly, although they slowed down from 1993 through 2002 due in part to the fact that during the so called “Dot-Com” era it was more profitable to put money in the stock market than into guitars.

From mid-2002 through early 2007 prices of many vintage collectible fretted instruments escalated at an unprecedented pace such that prices of some of these instruments went up tenfold in a matter of 3 & 1/2 years. This pace was unsustainable and came to a crashing halt in late 2007.

There are essentially three different types of buyers for fretted instruments: utility tool users, true collectors, and speculators. These are three very different types of buyers who have different goals and motivations. Utility tool users often are expert musicians, but they are not greatly concerned with age of an instrument or its total originality. Collectors are interested in having a coordinated collection with a theme and are very willing to pay more money than a utility tool user for the right item. Speculators frequently have more money than either utility tool users or collectors, but their ultimate goal is not to keep an instrument for more than two years before selling it. They target instruments which they feel are going up in value such that they can pay full current retail at the time of their purchase and sell at a profit after holding the instrument for a couple of years.

When the economy hit the skids in late 2008, many musicians simply held onto their instruments, but many musicians who had no “rainy day cash fund” to help them get through hard times were forced to sell. Prices dropped dramatically such that after three years many instruments had fallen to less than half their price at the peak of the bubble in the beginning of 2007. The speculators had dropped out and to this day many have not returned to this market

Recently, the market is showing some signs of revival, but many instruments still are bringing very significantly less today than they were a decade ago when the market was at its peak. I used to claim that I did not have a crystal ball to help me see where things were going, but I corrected that recently by purchasing a 10-inch crystal ball, which I now have on the small table in front of my desk. When I look through it, it is evident that the world is upside down since crystal balls act like a lens, which flips the image. In summary, prices at the moment appear to have stabilized, but many very fine rare vintage instruments are significantly harder to sell today than they were 20 years ago. What is evident, however, is that the true golden era instruments such as pre-World War II Martin and Gibson acoustics made during the 1930s and 1950s electric guitars by makers such as Gibson, Fender, and Gretsch are viewed by collectors as the most desirable and the best investments.

Today the market is under stress due to changing demographics with aging baby boomers, millennials who do not share the boomers interest in vintage instruments, competition from eBay, Reverb, Craig’s list, and Amazon, a market flooded with highly discounted new instruments due to overproduction by manufacturers, and fierce competition from brick-and-mortar dealers as well as online sales. All my crystal ball tells me at the moment is the world has gone topsy-turvy upside down.

[Rick's Fine '52]

12 minutes ago, Belka said:

Sorry Rick, but I have to disagree with you there. Read what George Gruhn has to say about it: 

George Gruhn:

I have been collecting and dealing fretted instruments since 1963 and have operated my shop since January 1970. During that time I have seen many twists and turns, peaks and valleys in the vintage and used instrument market as well as dramatic change in the market for new instruments. There have been times when prices were going up at a rapid rate and other periods in which they were plateaued and other times in which prices were falling due to a variety of factors.

From 1959 through 1963 during the great folk music boom, prices of acoustic instruments were rapidly rising while prices of used and vintage electric guitars were very low due to general lack of demand. It should be borne in mind, however, although prices of acoustic instruments were rapidly rising, they were rising from extremely low prices to prices that were beginning to approach the equivalent cost of a new guitar. People were not paying super premium prices over and above the cost of a new one to get a vintage instrument.

In the mid-1960s the folk boom was winding down, but the Beatles and the Rolling Stones and other rock bands hit, tremendously increasing the demand for guitars both acoustic and electric and many students on college campuses nationwide discovered the appeal of R&B music, and soon thereafter psychedelic rock. Prices of vintage electric guitars soared when some of the premier players discovered the merits of vintage guitars, resulting in rapid escalation of prices of pre-CBS Fender Telecasters and Stratocasters as well as original 1950s Les Paul Gibson models such that some of these instruments increased in value sufficiently that vintage examples were bringing more money than an equivalent new electric guitar in the case of Fenders. Since the single cutaway Gibson Les Paul Junior and Special models were discontinued in mid 1958, the sunburst Les Paul Standard at the end of 1960, and the black Les Paul triple pickup Custom in very early 1961, there was no equivalent new Gibson in the mid-to late 1960s, but original examples were bringing more money than most new Gibson electric guitars at that time.

From 1969 through 1975, during the great folk rock era, rock ‘n roll money was injected into the acoustic market and acoustic and electric guitar prices escalated rapidly with many instruments costing significantly more money than a similar looking new example.

Prices stagnated from 1966 through the mid-1980s and the fretted instrument music scene was at best lethargic. This was a very difficult time for music dealers due to the fact that the baby boomers had largely dropped out of the market and not yet reentered after their midlife crisis. Inflation was very high, and prime rate interest by 1981 was over 20%. This was an extremely tough time for musicians as well as musical instrument dealers.

Market conditions turned around considerably in the mid-1980s when baby boomers re-entered the market and prices escalated significantly, although they slowed down from 1993 through 2002 due in part to the fact that during the so called “Dot-Com” era it was more profitable to put money in the stock market than into guitars.

From mid-2002 through early 2007 prices of many vintage collectible fretted instruments escalated at an unprecedented pace such that prices of some of these instruments went up tenfold in a matter of 3 & 1/2 years. This pace was unsustainable and came to a crashing halt in late 2007.

There are essentially three different types of buyers for fretted instruments: utility tool users, true collectors, and speculators. These are three very different types of buyers who have different goals and motivations. Utility tool users often are expert musicians, but they are not greatly concerned with age of an instrument or its total originality. Collectors are interested in having a coordinated collection with a theme and are very willing to pay more money than a utility tool user for the right item. Speculators frequently have more money than either utility tool users or collectors, but their ultimate goal is not to keep an instrument for more than two years before selling it. They target instruments which they feel are going up in value such that they can pay full current retail at the time of their purchase and sell at a profit after holding the instrument for a couple of years.

When the economy hit the skids in late 2008, many musicians simply held onto their instruments, but many musicians who had no “rainy day cash fund” to help them get through hard times were forced to sell. Prices dropped dramatically such that after three years many instruments had fallen to less than half their price at the peak of the bubble in the beginning of 2007. The speculators had dropped out and to this day many have not returned to this market

Recently, the market is showing some signs of revival, but many instruments still are bringing very significantly less today than they were a decade ago when the market was at its peak. I used to claim that I did not have a crystal ball to help me see where things were going, but I corrected that recently by purchasing a 10-inch crystal ball, which I now have on the small table in front of my desk. When I look through it, it is evident that the world is upside down since crystal balls act like a lens, which flips the image. In summary, prices at the moment appear to have stabilized, but many very fine rare vintage instruments are significantly harder to sell today than they were 20 years ago. What is evident, however, is that the true golden era instruments such as pre-World War II Martin and Gibson acoustics made during the 1930s and 1950s electric guitars by makers such as Gibson, Fender, and Gretsch are viewed by collectors as the most desirable and the best investments.

Today the market is under stress due to changing demographics with aging baby boomers, millennials who do not share the boomers interest in vintage instruments, competition from eBay, Reverb, Craig’s list, and Amazon, a market flooded with highly discounted new instruments due to overproduction by manufacturers, and fierce competition from brick-and-mortar dealers as well as online sales. All my crystal ball tells me at the moment is the world has gone topsy-turvy upside down.

Then we must agree to disagree. George has been around a while, and what he says may be true in his patch. I think Norman would have a different view though personally. Anyway, that is certainly not the case in the UK, with regards to Vintage Fender basses. I know, because I have been actively involved in this market for over 2 decades. "Prices peaked in 2008", simply nonsense, anyone in the market will tell you that, and evidence it. 

Highly discounted new instruments bringing prices down? - Since when did that affect the market for 1950's instruments?  

Sorry, don't agree at all, as the facts demonstrate that simply isn't true. This is typical dealer speak by someone who will benefit from lots of people going to his store wanting to offload instruments. 

In addition, there are probably 1000x more quality vintage instruments on the market at any one time in the US compared with the UK, so prices in the US will always be more affected by economic change etc, as there is always more supply than over here.

Couldn't be more wrong. Ask any UK dealer if prices have slowed, or sales prices peaked in 2008!  I've doubled and nearly trebled some instruments in that time, as has everyone else!

Anyway, this is someone else's thread, maybe you could start one about the vintage market being dead, that would suit me, as people will hopefully be selling off in their droves.

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by Rick's Fine '52

[Pea Turgh]

I like microphones as well as basses. The value of practically anything old that was originally a professional tool (rather than domestic, but then some of them go for stupid money too) has been rocketing for years. AkgD19 for example - used to be cheap as chips in the 90’s, but now it’s “the Beatles” mic and sells for 300 squids. Daft.

Most home recording marketing depts are selling with the nostalgia  theme.

I agree that people priced out of the 60’s era basses are now going for 70’s, whereas 20 years ago, 70’s instruments were considered sub-par.

”They don’t make them like they used to!”

(it’s still a lovely bass though)

[Belka]

1 hour ago, Rick's Fine '52 said:

Then we must agree to disagree. George has been around a while, and what he says may be true in his patch. I think Norman would have a different view though personally. Anyway, that is certainly not the case in the UK, with regards to Vintage Fender basses. I know, because I have been actively involved in this market for over 2 decades. "Prices peaked in 2008", simply nonsense, anyone in the market will tell you that, and evidence it. 

Highly discounted new instruments bringing prices down? - Since when did that affect the market for 1950's instruments?  

Sorry, don't agree at all, as the facts demonstrate that simply isn't true. This is typical dealer speak by someone who will benefit from lots of people going to his store wanting to offload instruments. 

In addition, there are probably 1000x more quality vintage instruments on the market at any one time in the US compared with the UK, so prices in the US will always be more affected by economic change etc, as there is always more supply than over here.

Couldn't be more wrong. Ask any UK dealer if prices have slowed, or sales prices peaked in 2008!  I've doubled and nearly trebled some instruments in that time, as has everyone else!

Anyway, this is someone else's thread, maybe you could start one about the vintage market being dead, that would suit me, as people will hopefully be selling off in their droves.

 

Look, you know more about vintage instrument prices than I do, and you're obviously involved in the trade in some way, so I'm not going too debate this further. One thing you should remember however is that the vintage guitar market is a global one. In 2008 the pound was at the highest point it had been since the early '80s, trading at over 2 dollars to 1 pound. It has since crashed to well below that while the dollar has remained strong throughout the last 10 years. So actually, while prices in the UK may have doubled since 2008, the actual worth of the guitar has not really grown much at all. However, I will concede that in the context of the UK, if you have bought a guitar which has doubled in value, you've done a lot better than keeping that money in the bank.

But to get back to the topic of the thread, after looking briefly at the basses currently for sale at Andy Baxter, Reverb, eBay, Vintage and Rare, Talkbass, the Jazz on sale for £23,000 is not 'on the high side' , it's way overpriced. I do agree with your earlier point however that if it is a sonic blue matching headstock near mint condition '60s bass you want, and you have the money for it, someone may pay near to that price. At the same time, however, the seller has to consider the fact that such a person may not come along for a good few years, if at all, while people who are prepared to pay a realistic price will be put off and not even bother bidding on it. Dave Markee's custom colour 1964 Jazz has been on sale in Vintage and Rare for years at less than half the price of this.  

 

[Rick's Fine '52]

6 minutes ago, Belka said:

Look, you know more about vintage instrument prices than I do, and you're obviously involved in the trade in some way,

Dave Markee's custom colour 1964 Jazz has been on sale in Vintage and Rare for years at less than half the price of this.  

 

I have no connection with the trade at all, I'm a private player/fan/buyer/collector. I work in a totally different sector.

With custom colours, its all about which one. For example LPB or black are a very different ball game to sonic blue, or burgundy mist.

Personally, I don't like Custom Colours that much, I think Fenders look best in sunburst, or early ones in blonde.

[CH161]

I doubt the seller expects to return the full amount as listed. In fact there is a rather large 'Make Offer' button below the listed price.

There is also the VAT element to consider when buying from a retailer such as this. It won't be possible to know what that amount is as it will be sold under the VAT margin scheme - and consequently any VAT can't be claimed back. 

It would certainly be offered for less money without the VAT element, and I suspect as Rick says, it is very hard to price something so rare.

The seller himself will no doubt be aware to find another will be extremely unlikely.

[GuyR]

 I don't remember a bass in this colour for sale in this condition, so, if you want one this could well be your only opportunity. Atb's stock generally doesn't hang around.

I remember Andy Baxter had a metallic gold flake '64 for sale in similar condition a few years ago for £15k, which also seemed expensive, but doesn't now.

As with any market, it is only supply and demand that dictates price, nothing else.

I'm not sure of the number of truly collector grade 90%+ original pre cbs basses that  change hands in the uk each year but I would expect that it is a low number. Fender serial numbers up to 1965 add up to 200,000 for all types of instrument, so the numbers of basses existing in collector condition will still be in the many thousands- plenty of pent-up supply. The cutting edge of the market changing hands each year I would think is a small percentage of the existing stock.

It may well be that, when owners reach an age where they want to rid themselves of possessions that increased supply might coincide with a diminished demand from a smaller pool of potential buyers, less interested in music featuring electric bass, causing prices to drop.

This change in taste has certainly been the case with many areas of collecting. I think a widening of available information, removing the mystique, has diminished the attraction of some areas of collecting, particularly where it  has demonstrated large production numbers. Who knows?

one thing I can be certain about. The hour I spent playing my original custom colour 1962 jazz bass earlier this evening was the best hour I spent today.

[CH161]

The only other of these I've seen was for sale at a very reputable shop in the US.

Looking at the photos I would surmise this is most likely the same bass.

They were asking £20,220 plus £135 shipping to the UK. Then there would be import duty and VAT to pay on top of that. Plus the CITES business to deal with.

Probably 25% in additional costs in real terms on top of the asking price to land it here, plus the time and expense regarding certification.

It's starting to look like a bit of a bargain!

 

[discreet]

On 25/05/2018 at 20:00, bubinga5 said:

Would anyone here play a £23,000 bass live.?

Of course. Everyone would just assume it's a Harley Benton with a Fender Decal on it. 😁

[oldbass]

What a beautiful thing and nice weight..though think I'd be happier with the featherlight RW I had recently which would be a lot less stressful either locked up at home or playing Mustang Sally down the boozer. 

[Belka]

21 hours ago, Rick's Fine '52 said:

I have no connection with the trade at all, I'm a private player/fan/buyer/collector. I work in a totally different sector.

With custom colours, its all about which one. For example LPB or black are a very different ball game to sonic blue, or burgundy mist.

Personally, I don't like Custom Colours that much, I think Fenders look best in sunburst, or early ones in blonde.

I agree with you there. I think the sunburst '60s Fenders with tort guards look the best. Personally I like the 66-72 models best, TV logos but still with tort before going to black in the early '70s. 

I actually though sonic blue was one of the more common custom colours. It was available all the way from 60-72, but will admit there don't seem to be many out there with matching headstocks, and I do see it more on P basses than Jazzes. Black seemed more common on '60s guitars than basses.

I guess the really high prices would be for colours such as burgundy mist, Sherwood green, charcoal frost, all the silvers and golds, teal green, blue ice metallic, ocean turquoise metallic and shell pink. Those seem to be particularly rare. Olympic white, all of the reds, and lake placid blue seem to be the most common.

I have heard (but have no concrete proof that it's true) that you could choose your own paint and ask Fender to do custom colours that weren't offered in the brochures, although you'd have to pay extra of course. Apparently there may be a Capri yellow Strat (built in '60s, not on of the international colours from 1980) and a metallic purple Mustang out there somewhere. I guess today though unless you could show evidence they came like that from the Fender factory people would assume they were refins.