Terrible Promoter

[Leonard Smalls]

Wadduwedo?

We agreed to play a gig in a local pub a few months ago; it was supposed to be a "music festival" - we were told we weren't getting paid because they'd run out of money, but that there were plenty of bands on - we were told we were on at 3pm on 27th May.

We accepted, because the promoter said that he had some slots at a much bigger festival in a nearby town - and besides, as a newly starting out originals-only band we normally get a max of £100 anyway - we thought speculate/accumulate etc.

So there was no sign of any publicity - bearing in mind this pub is in a tourist area where many folks stay b&b and might not appreciate suddenly finding out with no warning that there's bands on Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. For some, of course it might be heaven - but as I said, absolutely no publicity.

So we did a bit of publicity, a local fanzine picked it up and put it in their highlights for the month section, when we discovered that we were the only band not getting paid. Which we weren't happy about - promoter was emailed, took ages to reply, basically said don't worry, there'll be loads of publicity, it'll do you good etc.

So we decided to go ahead - if only because of Shrop Rocks Picks-of-the-month thingummy - didn't want to let folks down who might actually come and see us!

Still no publicity, not mentioned on pub website with only 2 weeks to go... Then we discover we're on at 730, and this is only because I hassled the landlord of the pub who has nowt to do with putting on music and he hassled Mr No-Publicity-Is-Good-Publicity. 

Then a flyer finally appears with full line-up. And the %£&*$@ has got our band's name wrong! Not only that but he hasn't replied to any of our messages!

We know quite a few people are coming to see us, and it's our only local gig for months. Do we cancel because of the catalogue of incompetence, or play anyway?

[Lozz196]

Still do it, now you know what time you`re on promote it to the best you can, including that there has been an admin error on the name of the band on the official blurb. Turn up, play, stay for the rest of the bands, sell your merch and keep cementing a reputation of a band that honours its commitments. Might sound a bit po-faced, but when you`re starting out a reputation as a band that`s good to work with will keep you in work. Unfortunately we all encounter promoters like this, but at the end of the day you can play a blinder and gain an advantage through it.

[Leonard Smalls]

Aye - that's what we're minded to do... We just know to steer clear of this promoter!

 

[BrunoBass]

It never fails to amaze me how many pubs book bands and then do zero promotion.

[Leonard Smalls]

7 minutes ago, BrunoBass said:

zero promotion

Not even a sign written in brown crayon in the bar...

[PaulWarning]

trouble is Pubs that do not put music on regularly book bands thinking the bands will publicise it and bring their own supporters along to the gig,  also pub managers can be lazy and incompetent.

There's a pub near me that puts bands on every Friday night, they can't even be bothered to advertise it on their facebook page, last Friday there was about 10 punters in the pub

edit, no doubt soon they'll stop having bands on because the don't draw enough people 

Edited May 23, 2018 by PaulWarning

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

With no pay there's no Contract. I wouldn't play

[Leonard Smalls]

Aye... We've been paid for all our other gigs except the Musicians Against Homelessness benefit, which is quite unusual for a new originals band (not the New Originals, obviously!), especially here in the official middle of nowhere...

It's only the promotion done by the fanzine that makes us want to do it! They've been great and helped us get some very good future gigs.

[BrunoBass]

I’d play the gig, don’t let down the people who are coming to see you, and then avoid the promoter like the plague for ever.

[Dood]

1 hour ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Wadduwedo?

We agreed to play a gig in a local pub a few months ago; it was supposed to be a "music festival" - we were told we weren't getting paid because

Is as far as I got before I'd decided.

but it gets worse

1 hour ago, Leonard Smalls said:

We accepted, because the promoter said that he had some slots at a much bigger festival in a nearby town -

and

1 hour ago, Leonard Smalls said:

So there was no sign of any publicity - bearing in mind this pub is in a tourist area where many folks stay b&b and might not appreciate suddenly finding out with no warning that there's bands on Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. For some, of course it might be heaven - but as I said, absolutely no publicity.

 

alarm bells..

(I won't quote the rest)

1 hour ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Do we cancel because of the catalogue of incompetence, or play anyway?

Cancel because of the catalogue of incompetency. Yes you wanna support a fanzine, so tell them why you are out of this debacle and thank them for their help. However, "Promoters" like this should be weeded out. Call this person out for having no clue and messing you around. You are better than this. Every musician is. Oh and you are worth way more than 'no money left' and certainly more than £100.

[Daz39]

Exactly - this is classic 'but it's exposure' con. People die of exposure. It cheapens your trade and demeans your self-worth. Unless it's a charity gig and everyone's doing it for nowt, you have every right to be paid for your time. Obviously people think 'artists' don't need to be paid much because it's just some tunes, or a painting or a pot - but it neglects the hours and hours of practise, the expense of gear, the overhead costs of getting to gigs and promotion etc. You wouldn't tell a plumber they ought to fix your leak for free because you'll tell all your neighbours how good they were!

[EliasMooseblaster]

26 minutes ago, dood said:

Cancel because of the catalogue of incompetency. Yes you wanna support a fanzine, so tell them why you are out of this debacle and thank them for their help. However, "Promoters" like this should be weeded out. Call this person out for having no clue and messing you around. You are better than this. Every musician is. Oh and you are worth way more than 'no money left' and certainly more than £100.

My instinct is to agree with this, but one thing gives me pause for thought: the promoters who do no promotion often have a lot of free time to get their version of the story out if they feel slighted by a band. This guy's clearly chock full of s**t, but there's a risk that he'll decide to spread a load of "fake nooze" about you guys cancelling and being unprofessional or whatever.

If you wanted to hedge your bets...you said you've got some interest. Play this gig. Bring your crowd. Demonstrate just how good and professional you are - like Lozz said, watch the other bands, have a drink with them, make connections and flog some CDs if you can. Better still, asking the other bands seemingly innocent questions like, "oh, are you getting paid for this gig, then?" might help to sow the seeds of discord and quietly let them know that the promoter's trying to shaft you.

If the promoter asks you whether you'd like to work with him again, you're in a really strong position to give him both barrels. If he doesn't, there are plenty of groups and message boards online where you can tell other musicians everything you've told us. E.g., if you're on Facetube, the "advice/blacklist for uk bands promoters and labels group" has about 17,000 users who could (should) be warned off working with the guy.

[Monkey Steve]

I'm with Lozz. Regardless of whether you are being exploited by some tool of a promoter, you can still get something out of it.

If you have nothing better to do that night, and it's not costing you a huge outlay to get there, turn up, bring the crowd, play your set and impress everybody.  make contacts with other bands, and exploit the situation for whatever you can get out of it.  If you are the one bringing the crowd then the promoter/other promoters in attendance will no doubt be quite keen to get you back and you're not going to do it for free next time are you?  And if it is a small scene then getting a reputation for being dependable is always a good thing...as long as you can avoid getting a reputation for playing for free...

[Leonard Smalls]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said:

And if it is a small scene then getting a reputation for being dependable is always a good thing...as long as you can avoid getting a reputation for playing for free...

Indeed...

I'm loathe to cancel, simply because we stupidly said we'd do it. If Shrop Rocks hadn't been so excellent with their help we might have cancelled well before any other alleged publicity was a twinkle in the promoter's eye...

2 hours ago, dood said:

you are worth way more than 'no money left' and certainly more than £100.

You haven't heard us 

Seems the going rate round here is £200 for 2 x45min-1hour sets. Unfortunately we've only written 10 songs so far, which means we double up with some mates and split the money.

Luckily this gig is only 4 miles away, easy load in and out, the Mrs is driving and they brew their own beer which I hope/expect to get a few of for £0.

[stingrayPete1977]

My rule of not doing any free gigs for anyone has removed all useless promoter type people from my life for about four years now, tricky situation and I'm not sure what I'd do but it wouldn't have happened to me, the other band members in both bands feel the same and don't even ask me anymore when the free gig offers come rolling in. 

[Skybone]

I vote for "Play", I'm with Lozz & Monkey Steve. The fact that it's very local helps you.

Big up the fanzine that are helping you out, blank the promoter (unless he's carrying a wad of cash -  ), sell band stuff, stick around, hand out flyers, milk the promotion aspect.

[PaulWarning]

seeing as my last post was way off topic, sorry , this subject, should I play for free, has been done to death 

it's entirely up to the individual band, my own view is if you're struggling for gigs and it's local, do it.

Some won't agree which is fair enough

[rogerstodge]

There is no way I’d do it, I’ve had my share of dodgy promoters, I’ve even been paid in counterfeit bank notes, why should your band be the only ones not getting paid?

[stingrayPete1977]

2 hours ago, PaulWarning said:

seeing as my last post was way off topic, sorry , this subject, should I play for free, has been done to death 

it's entirely up to the individual band, my own view is if you're struggling for gigs and it's local, do it.

Some won't agree which is fair enough

There's doing it for free for a good cause or a good promoter then there's doing it for free for a womble promoter for free when all the other bands are being paid. 

The promoter might ask the band to all write "mug" on their heads before they go on at whatever time he decides on the day. 

[Lozz196]

Whilst I`m not exactly keen on bands playing for nothing, sometimes, when starting out on the originals circuit it`s one of those things that has to be done. You either get 5 paid gigs a year, or you take a punt on a few more unpaid as well, knowing you`re expanding your audience/merch sales/fan-base. Additionally, and in regards to the op, they agreed to play for nothing. Now irrespective of whatever any other band is getting, if you make an agreement you should stick with it imo. Again, not wonderful but you can gain a reputation as trustworthy, which can work in your favour - it`s how we`ve done things. An example of this is we were playing Gateshead on a Friday night, Blackpool on the Sat night afterwards. A big gig in Glasgow was offered to us at very short notice. So we did all three, doing an early afternoon Glasgow set, we wouldn`t bin the small Blackpool gig for the better Glasgow one. It was knackering, but in honouring our commitments it further cemented our reputation as a band that can be trusted.And the band is now self-funding, we don`t take any money from it but it pays for all recording/merch/hotels/flights/ferries/van & driver hire etc. But if we`d binned all the early unpaid gigs I wonder if we`d be in that position now.

[uk_lefty]

I'd do the gig and between songs make sure you keep thanking the fanzine that has spelled the band name correctly and given you some support. Only leave out that detail, nobody wants to hear you venting bitterness when you should be playing tunes and being likeable folk. 

I'd also corner the so-called promoter and tell him gently that he's messed up a lot and you've given him the benefit of the doubt by turning up and playing. 

Just make sure there's a backline, PA, etc. Before you arrive. And it's there for everyone to use. 

[Johnny Wishbone]

18 hours ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

the promoters who do no promotion often have a lot of free time to get their version of the story out if they feel slighted by a band. This guy's clearly chock full of s**t, but there's a risk that he'll decide to spread a load of "fake nooze" about you guys cancelling and being unprofessional or whatever.

This.  It's happened to us more than once.

[uk_lefty]

We had an offer to do a "festival" last year where the pay was terrible, first sign... Then they expected us to bring full backline and PA... Because you do carry all that to set up just for a forty five minutes set, you see... We politely declined but explained why it wouldn't work, so hopefully they had a rethink.

I saw a mate dep with a band at another pub "charity festival" a few years back. We paid six quid each to go in to watch... There was no PA. There was a stage, but the singer was connecting his mic to the cr4ppiest little 5w amp I'd ever seen. Before they finished their set a girl who was playing keyboard under a gazebo in the beer garden appeared because she needed the "vocal amp". Can't make it up. 

I guess my point is that when there are alarm bells you need to check everything before you fully commit!

Edited May 24, 2018 by uk_lefty

[KevB]

22 hours ago, PaulWarning said:

trouble is Pubs that do not put music on regularly book bands thinking the bands will publicise it and bring their own supporters along to the gig,  also pub managers can be lazy and incompetent.

There's a pub near me that puts bands on every Friday night, they can't even be bothered to advertise it on their facebook page, last Friday there was about 10 punters in the pub

edit, no doubt soon they'll stop having bands on because the don't draw enough people 

Think I know which you mean. Been trying to pin down the manager there for a gig date for weeks. Never answers emails, tries to avoid any communication with public unless he's forced into pulling pints for them when the other staff are snowed under (rare).

[PaulWarning]

7 minutes ago, KevB said:

Think I know which you mean. Been trying to pin down the manager there for a gig date for weeks. Never answers emails, tries to avoid any communication with public unless he's forced into pulling pints for them when the other staff are snowed under (rare).

don't know whether you know but the Malt Shovel has recently changed managers, might be worth having another go, but I know they're fully booked for the rest of the year.

Found yourself a new band then?