This is not...

[TheGreek]

https://www.gumtree.com/p/guitar-instrument/precision-bass-/1300146101

https://www.gumtree.com/p/guitar-instrument/white-jazz-bass-/1300145815

https://www.gumtree.com/p/guitar-instrument/p-bass-in-natural/1300145607

[Happy Jack]

In all fairness, Mick, it's hard to see a problem!

[dyerseve]

Maybe he is commenting on the refreshing honesty in these adds

[TheGreek]

The same seller with several (nice looking)Non Fender items...no attempt to kid us that they are genuine.

I was wondering whether they were a member here..

[prowla]

Still illegal, regardless.

[Happy Jack]

Illegal? Possibly a matter for a civil action, if Fender could be arsed, which they can't, but illegal? 

I doubt if Inspector Knacker of the Yard has been called ...

[Paul S]

1 hour ago, prowla said:

Still illegal, regardless.

Devils advocate here but also a genuine question - what is the difference between these non-Fenders, sporting a trade mark logo, and a Rickenfaker, sporting a trade mark headstock?

[FinnDave]

1 minute ago, Paul S said:

Devils advocate here but also a genuine question - what is the difference between these non-Fenders, sporting a trade mark logo, and a Rickenfaker, sporting a trade mark headstock?

The non-Fender is probably quite a playable bass....

[prowla]

1 hour ago, Happy Jack said:

Illegal? Possibly a matter for a civil action, if Fender could be arsed, which they can't, but illegal? 

I doubt if Inspector Knacker of the Yard has been called ...

Illegal as in against the law.

There have been threads where the information/links have been posted.

As to whether the matter would be pursued, it is questionable whether it would be done for Joe Bloggs selling the old bass he's had in his loft for the past 10 years, but for a business selling multiple ones it could be only a matter of time before they get a knock on the door (or at least a cease & desist notice).

1 hour ago, Paul S said:

Devils advocate here but also a genuine question - what is the difference between these non-Fenders, sporting a trade mark logo, and a Rickenfaker, sporting a trade mark headstock?

A Rickenfaker sporting a Rickenbacker logo on its TRC is also illegal.

The current Ric copies with the trademark headstock also infringe RIC's registered EU trademarks and are illegal.

The 70s/80s Ric copies which were made before RIC registered the headstock trademark could not infringe it because it didn't exist when they were made.

(A moot point would be putting a genuine Rickenbacker TRC onto a 'faker.)

[Happy Jack]

4 hours ago, prowla said:

Illegal as in against the law.

There have been threads where the information/links have been posted.

As to whether the matter would be pursued, it is questionable whether it would be done for Joe Bloggs selling the old bass he's had in his loft for the past 10 years, but for a business selling multiple ones it could be only a matter of time before they get a knock on the door (or at least a cease & desist notice).

 

If I take a sharpie and write 'Fender' on the headstock of another bass, no law has been broken.

If I take a Fender decal (real or good imitation) and stick it on the headstock of my bass, no law has been broken.

If I sell a non-Fender bass with a Fender decal on the headstock, but my advert states clearly that it is NOT a Fender, no law has been broken.

If I sell a non-Fender bass with a Fender decal on the headstock, and my advert states clearly that it IS a Fender, then that's - put simply - fraud, and yes, it is against the law.

Oh well, one out of four ain't bad.

Erm ... actually it iS bad.

[prowla]

50 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

If I take a sharpie and write 'Fender' on the headstock of another bass, no law has been broken.

If I take a Fender decal (real or good imitation) and stick it on the headstock of my bass, no law has been broken.

If I sell a non-Fender bass with a Fender decal on the headstock, but my advert states clearly that it is NOT a Fender, no law has been broken.

If I sell a non-Fender bass with a Fender decal on the headstock, and my advert states clearly that it IS a Fender, then that's - put simply - fraud, and yes, it is against the law.

Oh well, one out of four ain't bad.

Erm ... actually it iS bad.

1. Correct.

2. Correct.

3. Incorrect - unauthorised sale of an item bearing a registered trademark is illegal.

4. Correct.

[prowla]

To clarify on 3, the law does not state that it's OK if you say it's a fake.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/intellectual-property-offences/intellectual-property-offences

1.1 Unauthorised use of a trade mark

Offence	Section	Sentence	Indictment
(1) A person commits an offence who with a view to gain for himself or another, or with intent to cause loss to another, and without the consent of the proprietor - (a) applies to goods of their packaging a sign identical to, or likely to be mistaken for, a registered trade mark, or (b) sells or lets for hire, offers or exposes for sale or hire or distributed goods which bear, or the packaging of which bears, such a sign, or (c) has in his possession, custody or control in the course of a business any such goods with a view to the doing of anything, by himself or another, which would be an offence under paragraph (b)	92(1)	6 months and/or a £5,000 fine.	10 years and/or a fine.
(2) A person commits an offence who with a view to gain for himself or another, or with intent to cause loss to another, and without the consent of the proprietor - (a) applies a sign identical to, or likely to be mistaken for, a registered a trade mark to material intended to be used - (i) for labelling or packaging goods, (ii) as a business paper in relation to goods, or (iii) for advertising goods, or (b) uses in the course of a business material bearing such a sign for labelling or packaging goods, as a business paper in relation to goods, or for advertising goods, or (c) has in his possession, custody or control in the course of a business any such material with a view to the doing of anything, by himself or another, which would be an offence under paragraph (b)	92(2)	6 months and/or a £5,000 fine.	10 years and/or a fine.
3) A person commits an offence who with a view to gain for himself or another, or with intent to cause loss to another, and without the consent of the proprietor - (a) makes an article specifically designed or adapted for making copies of a sign identical to, or likely to be mistaken for, a registered trade mark, or (b) has such an article in his possession, custody or control in the course of a business, Knowing or having reason to believe that is has been, or is to be, used to produce goods, or material for labelling or packaging goods, as a business paper in relation to goods, or for advertising goods	92(3)	6 months and/or a £5,000 fine.	10 years and/or a fine.

 

 

[Happy Jack]

I refer My learned Friend to the Trade Marks Act 1994 and (if it will help) to the 'gloss' on that Act supplied by the CPS at https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/intellectual-property-crime

As you can see, to incur criminal charges in this category is not easy.

Putting a Fender decal on a headstock and claiming that it is a 'registered trade mark' is just about the only way to involve the Police.

Passing off and unregistered trade marks

Passing off occurs where a defendant makes a misrepresentation (which itself may or may not involve the use of a trade mark) that causes damage to the goodwill of the claimant's business which is itself known by a distinguishing sign or mark (effectively an unregistered trade mark). Strictly the right is not in the claimant's unregistered trade mark but in the business conducted under that sign or mark. The owner of an unregistered trade mark can take civil action to prevent passing off.

Trade Marks Infringements

There are civil rights and remedies for owners of registered trade marks in cases of infringement by unauthorised use - not just for goods or services which are identical with those for which the trade mark is registered and bearing an identical sign, but (with additional requirements) extending to:

• goods or services which are similar to those for which the trade mark is registered;
• goods or services which are not similar to those for which the trade mark is registered; and
• where the sign is similar to the registered trade mark.

Criminal Offences contrary to the Trade Marks Act 1994 (TMA)

Although only the offences in section 92 have specific enforcement responsibilities attached to them, there are other criminal offences under TMA which prosecutors may wish to be aware of, including:

• section 84 - unregistered person being described as a registered trade mark agent;
• section 94 - making of a false entry in the register of trade marks;
• section 95 - falsely representing that a mark is a registered trade mark (either by means of the word 'registered' or any other word or symbol);
• section 99 - unauthorised use of Royal Arms.

[prowla]

And felicitations back to my learned friend!

1. The the first item there mentions unregistered trademarks, which does not apply in this case, as the Fender logo and Stratocaster name are registered trademarks.
2. The fact that there are guidelines for how the owners of a trademark may pursue civil remedy does not alter the fact that the item is in itself illegal.
3. The criminal offences mentioned there do not contradict the preceding law.

As I mentioned earlier, the likelihood of an individual being taken to court for illegal use of a trademark is probably vanishingly low, but the entity in question in the OP appears to be a repeatable business.

 

 

 

 

[wateroftyne]

I'm glad prowla is around to save us all from oblivion.

[prowla]

17 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

I'm glad prowla is around to save us all from oblivion.

It's all part of the service, sir! :-)

[Happy Jack]

I'm just trying to imagine the conversation at the offices of the CPS where the eager young lawyer (female, blonde, unfeasibly large cleavage & short skirt, constantly at odds with her boss but somehow always gets the verdict when the case comes to Court) tries to persuade the old fuddy-duddy from the Chief Justice's office that Detective Chief Inspector Crusty Hunk should be dispatched immediately to arrest these fugitives from justice who are knowingly selling basses with fake Fender decals and - gasp! - daring to state the fact in their oh-so-clever advertising.

Hang the lot of 'em!

Meanwhile, back in the real world ...

[prowla]

4 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

I'm just trying to imagine the conversation at the offices of the CPS where the eager young lawyer (female, blonde, unfeasibly large cleavage & short skirt, constantly at odds with her boss but somehow always gets the verdict when the case comes to Court) tries to persuade the old fuddy-duddy from the Chief Justice's office that Detective Chief Inspector Crusty Hunk should be dispatched immediately to arrest these fugitives from justice who are knowingly selling basses with fake Fender decals and - gasp! - daring to state the fact in their oh-so-clever advertising.

Hang the lot of 'em!

Meanwhile, back in the real world ...

Who knows, eh...

It could be a quiet day and they could decide to have a clamp down on counterfeit goods.