Can you read music?

[funkysimon]

How many of us basschatters can read music? I can just about stumble through, though I'm never certain I'm playing in the right octave, and I certainly wouldn't be able to sight-read a piece of music; usually I have to think long and hard about tied semi-quavers and dotted this-that-and-the-others. That said, I've not done any music grade exams, and I guess that's where a lot of this stuff is taught.

If you can read music, do you find you use the skill a lot? Do you think it's an important skill? To test a correlation, if you can read music, are you also the kind of person that never practices without a metronome?

[Tinman]

I used to be able to as a kid, but now I just try and work stuff out by listening to it. If I get really stuck, I'll have a look at tab.

[paul, the]

Third in the list. Striving for first.

[Muppet]

Third in the list. Heading for fifth.

[Bullet-Rule]

I know the lengths of the different types of notes and the dots and have a rough idea of some of the notes on the stave (FACE) but apart from that I have little else knowledge. I haven't done any music grades and I'm only 17 so there's still time. I do think that it is quite a big advantage being able to use musical notation, however as I can't do it, I don't know what it would be like.

[funkysimon]

[quote name='Bullet-Rule' post='34807' date='Jul 20 2007, 05:09 PM']I know the lengths of the different types of notes and the dots and have a rough idea of some of the notes on the stave (FACE) but apart from that I have little else knowledge. I haven't done any music grades and I'm only 17 so there's still time. I do think that it is quite a big advantage being able to use musical notation, however as I can't do it, I don't know what it would be like.[/quote]

FACE! And the other good mnemonic for the treble clef,
Every Good Boy Deserves Fellatio

I can't think of a good one for the bass clef lines. George Bush Deserves F'kin Evisceration, maybe? Hmmm, bit political.

[The Funk]

[quote name='funkysimon' post='34811' date='Jul 20 2007, 05:15 PM']FACE! And the other good mnemonic for the treble clef,
Every Good Boy Deserves Fellatio

I can't think of a good one for the bass clef lines. George Bush Deserves F'kin Evisceration, maybe? Hmmm, bit political.[/quote]

Well, continuing your oral sex theme, Good Boys Deserve Fellatio Everyday

[funkysimon]

[quote name='The Funk' post='34816' date='Jul 20 2007, 05:38 PM']Well, continuing your oral sex theme, Good Boys Deserve Fellatio Everyday[/quote]

... the only downside is that I realised a couple of minutes after posting that the bass clef is GBDFA. Maybe I should demote myself from option 3 on the poll to 4
Give Blood! Don't Fear Altruism

[Mikey D]

I can sight read bass and treble clef, also depending on complexity, reading and transposing Bb and Eb parts on the fly.

If you want to be a complete musician I personally think it is very important and there is really no excuse to not learning it or giving it a go, as with anything. It can't do anything but help you progress on your instrument.

As a music student i use the skill a lot: on gigs when a tune is called i don't know but they have the score/real book etc. For recording other peoples compositions, for learning transcriptions and parts for bands. Being able to look at and actually analyze the music on the paper is also a great skill to have as then you can actually get the concepts into your playing.

Most people don't need the ability to read, but I stress learning at least a little to everyone i teach.

Also, I don't use a metronome that often personally, but when I do it tends to be for walking practice with the click on 2 and 4 or if feeling fruity on the swung 'and' of 2 and 4.

Edited July 20, 2007 by Mikey D

[bass_ferret]

Used to once, even got a CSE in music which does not sound very impressive but I did not do the course - just the exam! Never used it since. I will write down chord charts but other than that I learn by ear. Funny being in a jazz band and reading dots. Most of jazz is about improvisation unless its a big band when everyone has to play the same for the unison bits.

[Steve Rickwood]

Tab can be useful to demonstrate a useful method of fingering, as so to speak, but notation shows us the rhythm and the rise and fall of the notes. It also helps us communicate with other musicians and can allow a precise performance in a short time rather than fumbling around for hours. I only started learning when I was 22 and I managed to get more gigs by saying 'yes - I can read'. The flip-side of the coin are those that can't cope without it.
Also, he ability to interpret a chord chart tastefully is just as important.
Its a useful tool to sight read altho I don't get much call for it, and once you've read it, you never completely sight-read that piece again.
If you can cope with and without you'll be a useful player!

[paul, the]

Trying to play "[url="http://www.theartthieves.com/mediafiles/Kurt%20Personal/Stevie%20Wonder/09%20-%20He's%20Misstra%20Know-It-All.mp3"]He's Misstra Know-It-All[/url]" right now. Of course the music I'm reading is a semi-tone sharp as well as the fact that I'm trying to visualize the treble clef as a bass clef - i.e, what would that be on bass clef minus a note. Then flattening it and trying to play it on a piano. Witch is about 6th nature to me.

My brain can't cope.

I'd love to be able to do what you can do Mikey D, but I don't think I have it in me.

Do you have a good ear and voice as well?

[skywalker]

I'm learning to sight read at the moment and not really finding it as tough as I though it would be. I can improvise from a chord chart or even piano music if necessary, but I am looking forward to just being able to look at a bass part and going straight into it.

[jwbassman]

Absolutley essential in my opinion - that said I've always approached music from a reading perspective - started on trombone in the school band so had to be able to read the parts - subsequently did GCSE and A Level music so being able to read was a must.

As for the bass playing it depends on the situation - my main gig is with a big band so being able to read is essential for that, but agree with an earlier comment by Steve following and interpreting a chord chart is also an important skill for this type of playing - probably 50% of the bass parts in our pad have no complete written line.

I've also palyed with ska and blues/rock bands where written music was out of the question, so listening and learning was the order of the day.

I also do pit and theatre work where you must be able to read, we usually only have 1 band call prior to the show so there's no time to learn parts...

Reading is very important but I must admit while it enables me to take pretty much any work on offer I think I actually prefer playing without the dots - I find I can focus more on my actual playing rather than the reading, I guess the goal is to achieve the same fluency when reading as I experience when I'm not, now that is a skill... time for some more practice, not right now though it's a bit too late for that

[Buzz]

I used to be able to sight read quite well, my first proper foray into music was learning trumpet at school before and during my very early teens.

I'm alright on treble clef in terms of what note is what, but I've forgotton most of the names and variations of crochets and quavers etc. My bass clef is rubbish, all I know is that it's an 'F' clef (centre point of the stave symbol crosses the f line, in the case of the bass clef, it's the large middle dot), so I have to sit down and work it out when I use it.

I occasionally like to transpose stuff from treble clef, drop it down an octave or two, write it out on bass clef then if I feel like it, write it out as a tab as well, just to keep me fresh on notes relating to frets.

[wateroftyne]

I don't ready music or do TAB.

[quote]...there is really no excuse to not learning it[/quote]

Even if I wanted to, I just don't have time.

To be honest, I've been playing and recording for nearly 20 years and I can't think of a situation where I wished I could read.

[kjb]

[quote name='Mikey D' post='34848' date='Jul 20 2007, 06:36 PM']I can sight read bass and treble clef, also depending on complexity, reading and transposing Bb and Eb parts on the fly.

If you want to be a complete musician I personally think it is very important and there is really no excuse to not learning it or giving it a go, as with anything. It can't do anything but help you progress on your instrument.

As a music student i use the skill a lot: on gigs when a tune is called i don't know but they have the score/real book etc. For recording other peoples compositions, for learning transcriptions and parts for bands. Being able to look at and actually analyze the music on the paper is also a great skill to have as then you can actually get the concepts into your playing.

Most people don't need the ability to read, but I stress learning at least a little to everyone i teach.

Also, I don't use a metronome that often personally, but when I do it tends to be for walking practice with the click on 2 and 4 or if feeling fruity on the swung 'and' of 2 and 4.[/quote]

Could you do this before you started your course, or is something you've learned since.

I'm thinking of doing the jazz course next year, either that or the bass degree here [url="http://www.icmp.uk.com/"]http://www.icmp.uk.com/[/url].

I can sight read bass clef, but I struggle with treble, and as for reading and transposing, I have to pencil the notes in.

You've kind of put me off Birmingham conservatoire a bit though with having to learn to play upright. It would make more sense though seeing that I live in Birmingham.

[Alun]

I can sight read bass clef unless it's something really ridiculous, in which case I can usually still bluff my way through, and treble clef to a reasonable level. I need to practice sight transposition more but can do it a bit.

I've found it invaluable in doing big band and function gigs, and it allows me to do gigs at very short notice with no rehearal. I've just finished 3 gigs with a German jazz funk band where I had to transcribe two CDs worth of material in a couple of days and then read the parts on the gigs.

Being able to interpret chord charts, and mentally revise them as you go if it turns out that the band don't paly them exactly as it first appears, is really important too from my point of view.

As to whether or not it's essential, it depends on what you want to do. If you're playing original music or have a good ear then their may be no need but it's essential for big band and function/cabaret type work. I know at least one very busy session guitarist who can barely read at all but can play insanely complex music by ear after one or two listens.

My personal opinion is that it opens up more opportunities to learn and play and that can't be a bad thing. Imagine being unable to read or write English - yes, you could get through life verbally but miss out on so much.

Regarding metronomes - I practice some things with one, especially grooves and walking lines with it on 2 & 4 ( or just on one beat of the 4/4 bar - which beat depends on how adventurous I'm feeling!) as Mike mentions above, but don't use it every day.

Cheers,
Alun

[Mikey D]

[quote name='kjb' post='35129' date='Jul 21 2007, 10:53 AM']Could you do this before you started your course, or is something you've learned since.

I'm thinking of doing the jazz course next year, either that or the bass degree here [url="http://www.icmp.uk.com/"]http://www.icmp.uk.com/[/url].

I can sight read bass clef, but I struggle with treble, and as for reading and transposing, I have to pencil the notes in.

You've kind of put me off Birmingham conservatoire a bit though with having to learn to play upright. It would make more sense though seeing that I live in Birmingham.[/quote]

If you love Jazz then this is a great course as you are with like minded people who are really into it, but i your musical interests lay elsewhere and you jsut want to get your playing to a high standard then you may not enjoy it as much. There are oipportunities to do other styles, but jazz is really the thing obviously.

To be fair if you were a good electric player and didn't want to play upright then that may be ok, but I really do get the impression that if you say you aren't willing to learn then you won't get the place as many other people are. Aswell as the actual double bass players that audition. I think I said before, can't remember if it was you or not I don't mind havin a meet in teh conservatoire over the summer and go over a few thigns..

Also, aren't you the one goign to Sligo? Can talk more there in person.

To answer your question and to not threadjack-I could do it already. I have always had access to treble clef and Bb parts so just learnt to read them. Eb is much harder and I am not so fluid at it.

[Mikey D]

[quote name='paul, the' post='34966' date='Jul 20 2007, 09:42 PM']Trying to play "[url="http://www.theartthieves.com/mediafiles/Kurt%20Personal/Stevie%20Wonder/09%20-%20He's%20Misstra%20Know-It-All.mp3"]He's Misstra Know-It-All[/url]" right now. Of course the music I'm reading is a semi-tone sharp as well as the fact that I'm trying to visualize the treble clef as a bass clef - i.e, what would that be on bass clef minus a note. Then flattening it and trying to play it on a piano. Witch is about 6th nature to me.

My brain can't cope.

I'd love to be able to do what you can do Mikey D, but I don't think I have it in me.

Do you have a good ear and voice as well?[/quote]

Ear? My house mate says it seems good...when at a piano. But on bass? Pretty sh*t, but the more the course goes on the more I can tell it is improving. Hearing chord types and progressions. As for actual notes, no chance at the moment.

Voice? Much like a grown up choir boy. Who has gargled petrol and razers from their youth. I try not to sing in public. But I do practice it a lot when playing as I have heard all about the benefits.

[Alun]

[quote name='Mikey D' post='35326' date='Jul 21 2007, 06:53 PM']Eb is much harder and I am not so fluid at it.[/quote]

Oddly enough, I find Eb easier than Bb. The way I do it is to just think of the treble clef as bass clef and change the key signature. Eg, to get a concert C, an Eb instrument plays an Eb - the third space in treble clef is C, in bass clef it's E. So by changing the key signature and clef ( in my head), it all becomes much clearer. To my odd way of thinking anyway

Cheers,
Alun

[Mikey D]

hmmm, will have to try that sounds good. But for me Bb is just a note different and appears much easier

[Toffeexbassist]

I started having Double Bass lessons, which sorta helped. As well as playing a little piano. I can't Sight read (i assume sight reading is being able to play whilst reading) with notation, but I can with tab. I find it a lot easier if there's tab and Notation above it, that way i can use the notation for the timing, and tab for where to put my fingers, i have no problem looking at both things at once.
Anyone else like this?

[ShergoldSnickers]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='35096' date='Jul 21 2007, 08:30 AM']I don't ready music or do TAB.
Even if I wanted to, I just don't have time.

To be honest, I've been playing and recording for nearly 20 years and I can't think of a situation where I wished I could read.[/quote]

I put learning to read music in the same box as learning to program a computer. I have no aptitude for either they make as much sense as each other to me! If I need to learn something I just say "stick it on a CD/email it and leave it with me".

As most of the stuff I do is improvised or I devise the bass part where there is a structure, it's not been a problem. It's weird really, but I find a lot of highly trained musicians who panic at having to improvise, or just can't, and a lot of improvisers who panic at the thought of reading music or just can't!

[velvetkevorkian]

I can read pretty to very fluently on upright bass and I can get by reading on the bass guitar, although I'm going to work on that. I started out playing classical double bass in school, so it came along with that. I can read treble clef painfully, and tenor slightly better.

The way I see it, there's no disadvantage to being able to read, and it makes analysing and understanding music much easier, as well as giving you the ability to jump straight into gigs; for instance I depped (badly) in a musical for one night, but I got by sightreading it and following the cello player.

Tab is next to useless in ASCII format, and only worthwhile for fingering difficult things when accompanied by notation. The fact that it doesn't show rhythm hamstrings it IMO.