Can you read music?

[fatback]

[quote name='Delberthot' post='75408' date='Oct 17 2007, 02:36 AM']When I was 14, I was learning to play the double bass and reading at the same time. I was really terrible at reading.

3 years later I was given the chance to join a big band playing big band tunes of the 20s, 30s, 40s etc. When asked "can you read music?" I of course said "yes".

When I went to my first audition, there were another 2 people going for the position and the person leaving was my old double bass tutor!

I must have bluffed it enough because I got the part.

I used to get old DB players coming up to me saying how much they enjoyed my playing but being absolutely honest I was making 75% of it up (I was playing the first note and making the rest up)

Even today when I get asked to fill in with jazz bands and stuff I still bluff it completely. I can read the notes but have no idea how to read the individual notes properly with semi quavers and rests etc. I still regularly get lost half way through tunes.

I've played in a weding/function/dinner dance band for the past 11 years so have developed a knack for making stuff up as we regularly have to play songs that we don't normally do.

there is a big secret and I may divulge it someday but there are only a few patterns that you can actually play when covering other peoples tunes (except Frank Sinatra & Nat King Cole) which means that i can very rarely make a mistake when playing an unfamiliar tune.

I'm not being a show off, I just discovered the pattern.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha[/quote]

Right! It's the thumbscrews fa yew matey

Tell please please please?

[Wil]

[quote name='Delberthot' post='75408' date='Oct 17 2007, 02:36 AM']When I was 14, I was learning to play the double bass and reading at the same time. I was really terrible at reading.

3 years later I was given the chance to join a big band playing big band tunes of the 20s, 30s, 40s etc. When asked "can you read music?" I of course said "yes".

When I went to my first audition, there were another 2 people going for the position and the person leaving was my old double bass tutor!

I must have bluffed it enough because I got the part.

I used to get old DB players coming up to me saying how much they enjoyed my playing but being absolutely honest I was making 75% of it up (I was playing the first note and making the rest up)

Even today when I get asked to fill in with jazz bands and stuff I still bluff it completely. I can read the notes but have no idea how to read the individual notes properly with semi quavers and rests etc. I still regularly get lost half way through tunes.

I've played in a weding/function/dinner dance band for the past 11 years so have developed a knack for making stuff up as we regularly have to play songs that we don't normally do.

there is a big secret and I may divulge it someday but there are only a few patterns that you can actually play when covering other peoples tunes (except Frank Sinatra & Nat King Cole) which means that i can very rarely make a mistake when playing an unfamiliar tune.

I'm not being a show off, I just discovered the pattern.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha[/quote]

You are my hero.

[Bilbo]

If you can hear the difference between a major and a minor chord, you can get away with murder. But its a pretty shallow victory, isn't it? 'Getting away with it' is not what I took up the bass for.

[Wil]

If a bunch of other musicians and the general public can't tell the difference, I'd say it's a victory whichever way you slice it

Music isn't music until it reaches your ears - it's the result that matters, not how you get there.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Wil

[purpleblob]

There was no option for "No but I wanna learn". Many moons ago I learned theory, scales, harmony etc. but at the time I was a heavy metal bassist and "why the hell would I wanna learn the dots", so I never did.

Now I wanna learn just because I like learning different things. Whenever I try to read tab I seem incapable of playing the tune as it really sounds and am often better off just trying to play by ear - but I just do not have to time to sit down with a tune and learn by ear now, so I wanna learn to read. Anyway, just thought I'd say that and now off to the Major's tutorials of sight reading

[Kraken]

am learning and improving steadily, still takes me a while to get through the bars, but I'm getting there.

but I have asked the person teaching me to keep in in context of modes so that I can associate the two.

[peted]

I used to have piano lessons as a kid but never took any grades. I used to be able to get close to sight-reading both treble and bass clef but it takes me a good few minutes and several mistakes to read a single bar now as I didn't go back to it for years.

I've just got myself a few books on bass sight reading and it's starting to come back to me. It's more the specific bass stuff like having the same notes in different positions that is causing me a headache now, it seemed so much more simple on a piano

[MacDaddy]

the language we communicate with is music, if you can not read music you are musically illiterate.

Illiteracy is not good.

[lowdown]

[quote name='Delberthot' post='75408' date='Oct 17 2007, 02:36 AM']I've played in a weding/function/dinner dance band for the past 11 years so have developed a knack for making stuff up as we regularly have to play songs that we don't normally do.

there is a big secret and I may divulge it someday but there are only a few patterns that you can actually play when covering other peoples tunes (except Frank Sinatra & Nat King Cole) which means that i can very rarely make a mistake when playing an unfamiliar tune.

I'm not being a show off, I just discovered the pattern.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha[/quote]


Urm...
I think its called busking...
Plenty of people on this site, and in fact all over the world do it.
So your secret is safe..


Garry

[AttitudeCastle]

I can read all the bass clef music and all bass clefs fine, 100% i can sight read it and all

but treble and alto and even some tenor stuff confuses me, but i can handle it alright,

but for bass i don't think its 100% necessary only learn it if you want to, or feel you should,

I am musically literate as i play trombone/bass trombone in an orchestra though!

[lowdown]

[quote name='AttitudeCastle' post='846787' date='May 24 2010, 07:30 PM']I am musically literate as i play trombone/bass trombone in an orchestra though![/quote]

Every one in an Orchestra is musically literate, apart from................
Viola players.


Garry

[AttitudeCastle]

[quote name='lowdown' post='846791' date='May 24 2010, 07:36 PM']Every one in an Orchestra is musically literate, apart from................
Viola players.


Garry[/quote]

Haha, and wheres that one come from then?

[velvetkevorkian]

Common knowledge. That's why they don't get any actual music to play

[xilddx]

[quote name='funkysimon' post='34730' date='Jul 20 2007, 03:27 PM']How many of us basschatters can read music? I can just about stumble through, though I'm never certain I'm playing in the right octave, and I certainly wouldn't be able to sight-read a piece of music; usually I have to think long and hard about tied semi-quavers and dotted this-that-and-the-others. That said, I've not done any music grade exams, and I guess that's where a lot of this stuff is taught.

If you can read music, do you find you use the skill a lot? Do you think it's an important skill? To test a correlation, if you can read music, are you also the kind of person that never practices without a metronome?[/quote]
The more I play, the more I wish I had trained properly and got a theoretical musical education, learned all my scales and learned to read properly.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='846607' date='May 24 2010, 04:05 PM']the language we communicate with is music, if you can not read music you are musically illiterate.

Illiteracy is not good.[/quote]
While I am a general supporter of reading (and read regularly myself) I feel this observation is slightly over egging the pudding as there are plenty of great musicians who don't read. That being true does not make it a worthwhile cause to steadfastly not read, but it does mean that we should recognise the distinction between reading and playing. I feel that the final result is what should be judged in music and if the final result sounds good, then it sounds good, how you get there is irrelevant and we should not denigrate those that get there without reading. If a person finds a happy niche and is successful to whatever degree satisfies them then it is for no-one to judge otherwise. It's observable that any musician would add a bonus to their armoury by learning to read but it is not a deficit if they are a great musician without it, because the final judgement is what it sounds like.

That said I would encourage anybody to learn to read, but only in positive terms.

[Wil]

Massive + 1 to that!

[Bilbo]

I do agree with Jake in principle but I just wanted to flag up the furstration I feel at the amount of time I have to spend working with non-readers who spend so much time flapping about trying to learn/remember/explain pieces to each other. I reitterate a point I made here before. Writing and reading dots helps you get to the good bit (the playing of the thing) more quickly and, in a wholistic sense, helps you get to play more sophistiicated and complex musics more easily. I guess, as I get older and have less time to rehearse, its a great way of saving time.

And, as Iain Ballamy once said to me, 'it takes you places you might otherwise not have gone musically'.

[Wil]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='849201' date='May 27 2010, 09:56 AM']I do agree with Jake in principle but I just wanted to flag up the furstration I feel at [b]the amount of time I have to spend working with non-readers who spend so much time flapping about trying to learn/remember/explain pieces to each other.[/b] I reitterate a point I made here before. Writing and reading dots helps you get to the good bit (the playing of the thing) more quickly and, in a wholistic sense, helps you get to play more sophistiicated and complex musics more easily. I guess, as I get older and have less time to rehearse, its a great way of saving time.

And, as Iain Ballamy once said to me, 'it takes you places you might otherwise not have gone musically'.[/quote]

This is probably the main reason a lot of people never bother learning to read properly (myself included). It's like learning to speak Latin in order to hold a conversation with your friends - a bit pointless unless they all do the same. If I moved in circles where there were a lot of other readers my outlook would most likely be very different.

As always, it's horses for courses.

[renniks]

Learning to read while learning to play for me. Though trying not to get into the habit of learning that the 3rd fret on the 3rd string is 'that note' rather than the note is a 'C' and the 3rd fret on the 3rd string is also a 'C'

[Hector]

Learning to read music totally changed my life. I'm not exaggerating.

One day, about 4 or 5 years ago, a friend asked if I wanted to play bass in a production of Les Miserables. I lied and said I could read music in order to get the gig. I sweated over that score to learn to read, but when it was time for the show I nailed it. I jumped in the deep end, and it was scary at first. I never thought I'd be able to do it!

5 years later and I am a totally different musician. Learning to read started me playing upright, which is the love of my life. I joined an orchestra and started getting/taking much more gigs, partly because I doubled on electric and upright but mostly because I could read competently. Since then, I've not looked back. 75% of my gigs I play on a regular basis involve reading, and more often than not sight reading (and those that aren't are jazz charts). There are still things that catch me out occasionally, but for the most part I'm fluent. I play with countless different orchestras, big bands, musicals, ensembles etc. I've met so many great people and made so many friends, and become a more rounded, competent and employable bass player.

It sounds like I'm blowing my own trumpet a bit, which I don't mean to do. The point I'm trying to make is that the one little decision I made all those years ago to get off my arse and learn to read properly has opened up a whole world of opportunities for me. Music is such a huge part of my life, and I love it, but I'd never have met so many people and played so many wonderful pieces if I hadn't learnt to read. It's allowed me to appreciate and enjoy what it is I do on a deeper level than I did before reading. It's made me so happy, and I'm grateful every single day that I get to play bass with and for so many people. I'm busy as feck mind, with my degree on top of gigging, but if you really love something it barely even feels like a sacrifice.

I hope learning to read makes you as happy as it has me!




EDIT: p.s. I feel the same about having a good ear, sight transposition (ever backed a singer who can't do original keys?) and being able to bash out a bit of piano.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Hector

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='Hector' post='849999' date='May 28 2010, 01:51 AM']Learning to read music totally changed my life. I'm not exaggerating.

One day, about 4 or 5 years ago, a friend asked if I wanted to play bass in a production of Les Miserables. I lied and said I could read music in order to get the gig. I sweated over that score to learn to read, but when it was time for the show I nailed it. I jumped in the deep end, and it was scary at first. I never thought I'd be able to do it!

5 years later and I am a totally different musician. Learning to read started me playing upright, which is the love of my life. I joined an orchestra and started getting/taking much more gigs, partly because I doubled on electric and upright but mostly because I could read competently. Since then, I've not looked back. 75% of my gigs I play on a regular basis involve reading, and more often than not sight reading (and those that aren't are jazz charts). There are still things that catch me out occasionally, but for the most part I'm fluent. I play with countless different orchestras, big bands, musicals, ensembles etc. I've met so many great people and made so many friends, and become a more rounded, competent and employable bass player.

It sounds like I'm blowing my own trumpet a bit, which I don't mean to do. The point I'm trying to make is that the one little decision I made all those years ago to get off my arse and learn to read properly has opened up a whole world of opportunities for me. Music is such a huge part of my life, and I love it, but I'd never have met so many people and played so many wonderful pieces if I hadn't learnt to read. It's allowed me to appreciate and enjoy what it is I do on a deeper level than I did before reading. It's made me so happy, and I'm grateful every single day that I get to play bass with and for so many people. I'm busy as feck mind, with my degree on top of gigging, but if you really love something it barely even feels like a sacrifice.

I hope learning to read makes you as happy as it has me!




EDIT: p.s. I feel the same about having a good ear, sight transposition (ever backed a singer who can't do original keys?) and being able to bash out a bit of piano.[/quote]
Hector - this is a brilliant post !
I hope many non-reading basschatters are inspired by this.

The Major

[Bilbo]

[quote name='Hector' post='849999' date='May 28 2010, 01:51 AM']Learning to read music totally changed my life. I'm not exaggerating.

One day, about 4 or 5 years ago, a friend asked if I wanted to play bass in a production of Les Miserables. I lied and said I could read music in order to get the gig. I sweated over that score to learn to read, but when it was time for the show I nailed it. I jumped in the deep end, and it was scary at first. I never thought I'd be able to do it!

5 years later and I am a totally different musician. Learning to read started me playing upright, which is the love of my life. I joined an orchestra and started getting/taking much more gigs, partly because I doubled on electric and upright but mostly because I could read competently. Since then, I've not looked back. 75% of my gigs I play on a regular basis involve reading, and more often than not sight reading (and those that aren't are jazz charts). There are still things that catch me out occasionally, but for the most part I'm fluent. I play with countless different orchestras, big bands, musicals, ensembles etc. I've met so many great people and made so many friends, and become a more rounded, competent and employable bass player.

It sounds like I'm blowing my own trumpet a bit, which I don't mean to do. The point I'm trying to make is that the one little decision I made all those years ago to get off my arse and learn to read properly has opened up a whole world of opportunities for me. Music is such a huge part of my life, and I love it, but I'd never have met so many people and played so many wonderful pieces if I hadn't learnt to read. It's allowed me to appreciate and enjoy what it is I do on a deeper level than I did before reading. It's made me so happy, and I'm grateful every single day that I get to play bass with and for so many people. I'm busy as feck mind, with my degree on top of gigging, but if you really love something it barely even feels like a sacrifice.

I hope learning to read makes you as happy as it has me!




EDIT: p.s. I feel the same about having a good ear, sight transposition (ever backed a singer who can't do original keys?) and being able to bash out a bit of piano.[/quote]

Says it all. I've got something in my eye....

[RhysP]

[quote name='silddx' post='847791' date='May 25 2010, 06:46 PM']The more I play, the more I wish I had trained properly and got a theoretical musical education, learned all my scales and learned to read properly.[/quote]
Same here.
I have tried again & again to learn to read music but I just don't get it - it's like I have some kind of music dyslexia.
Teachers have given up on me. It just doesn't register with me at all.

[OliverBlackman]

By the sounds of it Orchestra and big bands are the way forward to complete you as a musician but in particular sight reading. If you look at most of the great players they have all been involved in these in some way or form. Hopefully next year i will have the confidence to give NYJO a bash

[moxey]

Hey

it's useful to be able to read the dots. Anything that gives you more information than you had, and enables you to find a piece you haven't even heard and play it can't be bad. It's far easier to sight read than say tab.

ok so you have to get your head around some theory, but that's yet again not a bad thing... unless you are content to plod instead of run.

Cheers

John