Posh DI Box- is it worth it?

[skidder652003]

On 04/06/2018 at 12:50, pete.young said:

DHA VT1 Pro would be worth a look too. Has a great DI on it.

yep I use the VT-2 (has 2 pre amp valves) sounds great but does deffo colour your sound

[jensenmann]

I frequently do a lot of proaudio gear shootouts with my students, the obvious DI comparison amongst many others (I teach audio engineering). My personal conclusion is that the simple and not too expensive BSS DI box is pretty good on an absolute level and unbeaten in it´s pricerange. You´d need to pay x4 the price to get a clear improvement. The above mentioned Bo Hansen DI (it´s a DIY project, not available prebuilt) is better that the BSS, but it depends a lot on the parts used for it. I made eight of them for myself in several versions and each of them cost me app. 100€.

If you occasionally need to use the DI for piezo pickups (e.g. double bass PUs, classical guitar, etc.) then the Radial PZ DI is the best option. It offers a 10MOhm input impedance which 5-10x higher than all the other DIs. That makes all the difference for piezo PUs. There´s no better option available in this application.

In case you want to chase the last 3% of sound quality, then there are other options. Many people rate the Avalon U5 in this league, but I don´t. On occasions it sounded great, on others it has been beaten by the BSS, Bo Hansen, or a few others in my tests, even by a cheapo passive DOD DI. But it has a few advantages which should be mentioned: It has a preset EQ (if you´re into that - I´m not, I have better options) which may be helpful if you want to track with EQ, it looks expensive since it is expensive which helps half-educated people to nod their head and say "wow, an Avalon DI" while ignoring what they are hearing, it has a line-level output (you won´t need a micpreamp to amplify the signal from mic-level at the DI output to line-level while (the sound of most DIs depend a lot on which micpreamp will amplify their signal).

The king and unbeaten DI in my book is the Gyraf G9 tube microphone preamp. Unfortunately it´s stereo, so if you want only one DI then you have another one left over. But since it´s a micpre after all you can use the second channel to mic your bassamp. The micpres are some of the best ever made and cheap compared to other offerings in the same quality range. They beat my Siemens V72 preamps and many others lefthanded all day long. And that´s a statement...

http://gyraf.dk/product/g9/

[scalpy]

Thanks jensenmann, that’s very useful. The Avalon hasn’t really piqued my interest, so that was a no, but I’ve been plenty of gigs/ sessions now where the bss has been used. The diy job, that will be of a similar spec to the house Di.s, as I alluded to earlier, the studio is very well specced indeed. 

So, tonehammer is on the wish list unless I can find something a bit more esoteric (but maybe not the price tag of the gyraf- ouch!) 

 

[Jack]

3 hours ago, scalpy said:

Thanks jensenmann, that’s very useful. The Avalon hasn’t really piqued my interest, so that was a no, but I’ve been plenty of gigs/ sessions now where the bss has been used. The diy job, that will be of a similar spec to the house Di.s, as I alluded to earlier, the studio is very well specced indeed. 

So, tonehammer is on the wish list unless I can find something a bit more esoteric (but maybe not the price tag of the gyraf- ouch!) 

 

I don't know much about this session in particular but I can imagine many engineers being reluctant to work with something home made.

[scalpy]

9 hours ago, Jack said:

I don't know much about this session in particular but I can imagine many engineers being reluctant to work with something home made.

No engineer would use kit I had made, as it wouldn’t work for starters. This engineer isn’t a brand snob though- we once double tracked a guitar with a 62  vox AC30 on one side and a £15 smokey cigarette pack guitar amp on the other!

[Bigwan]

Off the wall suggestion - Arkham Sound. They have 3 preamps based on the Ampeg B15 preamp circuit. Getting a lot of love on that other bass site. 

[WinterMute]

16 hours ago, jensenmann said:

I frequently do a lot of proaudio gear shootouts with my students, the obvious DI comparison amongst many others (I teach audio engineering). My personal conclusion is that the simple and not too expensive BSS DI box is pretty good on an absolute level and unbeaten in it´s pricerange. You´d need to pay x4 the price to get a clear improvement. The above mentioned Bo Hansen DI (it´s a DIY project, not available prebuilt) is better that the BSS, but it depends a lot on the parts used for it. I made eight of them for myself in several versions and each of them cost me app. 100€.

Oh yes, the old BSS box, I've still got one of those in a drawer somewhere, used to use them all the time before the Phoenix Audio and RND stuff came along.

 

Good call.

[EBS_freak]

@jensenmann - I'd be interested in your thoughts on the Orchid box, I still reckon it's the best DI box for the incredibly cheap price (I moved from BSS). Even the SOS guys seem to agree - http://orchid-electronics.co.uk/Sound-On-Sound_Orchid_DI_Boxes_review.PDF

 

[LewisK1975]

Mega (and I mean MEGA) expensive but the BAE 1073 is apparently incredible.

http://www.baeaudio.com/products/1073dmp

[Bigwan]

10 minutes ago, LewisK1975 said:

Mega (and I mean MEGA) expensive but the BAE 1073 is apparently incredible.

http://www.baeaudio.com/products/1073dmp

Not quite into Monique territory!

Think Chris Chaney swears by the 1073

[roman_sub]

Neve 1073 is a really classic design - sounds warm and phat to my ears. Works great for mixes, but probably with a less crisp high end than some of the other active DI's (then again it's called bass, right?!). Luuuuvely transformer to gently tame transients too if you push it ;-)

A number of decent clones exist, too - GAP Pre73, Warm audio etc etc... BAE is top of the pile of the new stuff probably :-)

Edited June 6, 2018 by roman_sub

[Jack]

8 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

@jensenmann - I'd be interested in your thoughts on the Orchid box, I still reckon it's the best DI box for the incredibly cheap price (I moved from BSS). Even the SOS guys seem to agree - http://orchid-electronics.co.uk/Sound-On-Sound_Orchid_DI_Boxes_review.PDF

 

I don't have an Orchid, although the sound company that provides a biker rally we do every year has a couple and so I've used what I've just learned is their classic box several times. I liked it, but it was always a biker rally so I'm sure I couldn't have told the difference between a Behringer and a Neve. That review is 6 years old, I'd be intresting to see if there was anything new that betters the orchids? For instance I have a Triton Big Amp, but had I known Orchid did their 'micro' I would have got that for half the price! The Triton is fine, but I'm sure the Orchid would have been too...

Edited June 6, 2018 by Jack

[Chienmortbb]

I do have an Orchid and it is great. More reliable that the LD it replaces and just simple. It is no frills as that is what a DI should be. It is transformer less and active. A well designed active DI is better than a poor transformer design. 

If you want a coloured sound,  put a pedal in front of it.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by Chienmortbb
Spelling

[Kevsy71]

For studio work also consider a quality mic pre with instrument input: I picked up one of these secondhand. The 'gain trim' feature gives superb warmth/grit/fuzz/drive tweaking, plus of course you can use it for a quality vocal take too!

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/dizengoff-audio-d4

 

[scalpy]

22 hours ago, Bigwan said:

Off the wall suggestion - Arkham Sound. They have 3 preamps based on the Ampeg B15 preamp circuit. Getting a lot of love on that other bass site. 

Do you know about availability and price please? A turbo search didn’t reveal much but that certainly looks like a great option. 

I’ve realised after this thread that there’s no point in going for super pure, the studio has always done that for me. Ideally I want something that has really good quality signal but some flavour to it, that I can get in time- hence no noble, they don’t seem to come up for sale! So JHS colour box has come up a few times, that certainly gives lots of applications post session as well as being sufficiently interesting. Certainly sounds great in YT videos and comes highly recommended.

[xroads]

On 02/06/2018 at 11:48, scalpy said:

Hi all. I’ve got a nice session coming up with a team I’ve worked with before. It’s a social as much as a job and part of the tradition is surprising each other with a new bit of kit. Despite being on basschat I don’t really covet much but was thinking about something along the lines of Reddi or the Demeter on here at the moment. Normally my signal path is DI out the amp (markbass) and a large mic on the cab (U67?!?). Would I or the engineer gain that much from a decent DI signal? I’d ask the engineer but it’s him who likes the surprises!

I would leave it as is. A decent mix of direct signal and DI out will give an organic sound. If the engineer wants higher grade signals, he should use an uncolored good DI (which studios have anyway) and a Neve or API type preamp. 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by xroads

[Bigwan]

15 minutes ago, scalpy said:

Do you know about availability and price please? A turbo search didn’t reveal much but that certainly looks like a great option. 

I’ve realised after this thread that there’s no point in going for super pure, the studio has always done that for me. Ideally I want something that has really good quality signal but some flavour to it, that I can get in time- hence no noble, they don’t seem to come up for sale! So JHS colour box has come up a few times, that certainly gives lots of applications post session as well as being sufficiently interesting. Certainly sounds great in YT videos and comes highly recommended.

$550, $700, $800 depending on the model (plus shipping and import). 4 week build time according to website. I'd give this a read if you're interested: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/arkham-zephyr-tube-bass-preamp.1141059/

I liked the idea of the JHS when I first saw it, but I've been reading more bad reports about lack of headroom on them than anything good...

[scalpy]

15 minutes ago, xroads said:

I would leave it as is. A decent mix of direct signal and DI out will give an organic sound. If the engineer wants higher grade signals, he should use an uncolored good DI (which studios have anyway) and a Neve or API type preamp. 

 

 

You been talking to my wife?!!!!! Sage advice, that should probably be heeded. The studio does have that breed of kit.

http://www.rockfieldmusicgroup.com/default.asp?contentID=559

[scalpy]

16 minutes ago, Bigwan said:

$550, $700, $800 depending on the model (plus shipping and import). 4 week build time according to website. I'd give this a read if you're interested: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/arkham-zephyr-tube-bass-preamp.1141059/

I liked the idea of the JHS when I first saw it, but I've been reading more bad reports about lack of headroom on them than anything good...

Thank you, I shall investigate- again there’s plenty of applications post session. Do you have one by the way, please?

[Bigwan]

Just now, scalpy said:

Thank you, I shall investigate- again there’s plenty of applications post session. Do you have one by the way, please?

I wish!

[xroads]

1 hour ago, scalpy said:

Thank you, I shall investigate- again there’s plenty of applications post session. Do you have one by the way, please?

I have a Jules Monique, which is a tube based preamp with DI. It really adds an amazing color and warm presence to the sound, which some like and others dislike...I love it.

[xroads]

1 hour ago, scalpy said:

You been talking to my wife?!!!!! Sage advice, that should probably be heeded. The studio does have that breed of kit.

http://www.rockfieldmusicgroup.com/default.asp?contentID=559

I don't know your smart wife - BUT reading through the equipment list of the studio, I would take advantage of their mic-pre's both miced and direct!

[scalpy]

6 hours ago, xroads said:

I have a Jules Monique, which is a tube based preamp with DI. It really adds an amazing color and warm presence to the sound, which some like and others dislike...I love it.

That would be the dream- I normally end up dribbling considering the Monique. 

[Owen]

On 05/06/2018 at 17:08, jensenmann said:

Iany people rate the Avalon U5 in this league

I used to own a U5. What it did offer for me was real immediacy and bucketloads of headroom. I really liked it for that. I am not suggesting you are wrong and I am right. It is all subjective and situation specific.

Edited June 7, 2018 by owen

[jensenmann]

On 06/06/2018 at 11:38, EBS_freak said:

@jensenmann - I'd be interested in your thoughts on the Orchid box, I still reckon it's the best DI box for the incredibly cheap price (I moved from BSS). Even the SOS guys seem to agree - http://orchid-electronics.co.uk/Sound-On-Sound_Orchid_DI_Boxes_review.PDF

Sorry, I have never used this one.

On 07/06/2018 at 18:52, owen said:

I used to own a U5. What it did offer for me was real immediacy and bucketloads of headroom. I really liked it for that. I am not suggesting you are wrong and I am right. It is all subjective and situation specific.

Sometimes convenience and a fast workflow are more important than sound. Depending on the situation I grab what´s next just to make it work fast. Musicians are mostly not interested in minute details of sound, they just want to play. As an engineer I don´t want to get in their way. While I can hear and know the difference in tonality between all my DIs I can get along with each of them. There´s no bad DI amongst them. For my classes I have a few crappy DIs which I´d never use on a real session, just to show my students (with lesser trained ears) that there are relevant differences. Even more important is to know when to use active and passive DIs.