Want an SVT, but just don't got the dough?

[NJW]

Our favourite budget manufacturer have really cracked it this time.

They have released a new bass amp with a REVOLUTIONARY, err, shape!

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the 'BVT'!!!!!



"The ULTRABASS BVT5500H amp head comes with 550 Watts of massive power. BVT stands for BEHRINGER Virtual Tube and features the revolutionary VTC Tube Modeling technology to provide the sound and feel of a real tube amp. This bass monster impresses through loads of features such as the Voicing selector with 5 ultimate sound variations, the switchable Overdrive channel and a limiter for more volume without distortion. The unit also includes a 9-band graphic EQ as well as dedicated Bass, Mid and Treble controls—perfect for ultimate sound control. "

oh dear...

[The Funk]

These guys crack me up. Are they [i]never[/i] sued?

[d-basser]

[quote name='The Funk' post='34849' date='Jul 20 2007, 06:37 PM'] These guys crack me up. Are they [i]never[/i] sued?[/quote]

i am pretty sure there have been law suits in the past regarding either their pedals or their amp heads...or both

[ShergoldSnickers]

They should change their name to [i]Meh[/i]ringer.

[paul, the]

BVT


Although I would love them if they actually made a tube amp. But virtual tube..


I can't argue though as I have a BDI 21 which to my naive nerves of tone, sounds furking fantastic (with mute).


Go on you crazy Germans. Make a valve amp.

Edited July 21, 2007 by paul, the

[rohan]

Gaym*nger

[Gazm]

Steady - thought you were taking the p!ss

P.

[Buzz]

Actually, if this WAS a proper tube amp, I'd be really really interested.

[Hamster]

If it sounds good, it might be a pretty good seller. Looks like you can easily pick it up for sub £300 prices. They don't state how they measure the "550watts" - it can make a difference.

Hamster

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='d-basser' post='34852' date='Jul 20 2007, 06:44 PM']i am pretty sure there have been law suits in the past regarding either their pedals or their amp heads...or both[/quote]

I think Aphex tried it. Behringer's tactics were to use any underhand method to delay the case coming to court. Meanwhile the ripped off product is selling like hot cakes. You could probably find the story on google if you were so inclined.

I don't suppose this pile of junk has Ampeg running scared though.

Gaym*nger. Haha

Edited July 21, 2007 by PaulMartin

[Stan_da_man]

Wasn't that thing shown at NAMM 6 months ago?

[Tee]

Lol, BVT

[parker_muse]

i really hope this thing is amazing:P

[Chopthebass]

[quote name='parker_muse' post='36389' date='Jul 24 2007, 02:50 PM']i really hope this thing is amazing:P[/quote]

The words 'behringer' and 'amazing' don't go together, so I'd give up hoping! I was curious, so I had a look at the manual online. The watts are classed as 'peak output'. So it's really quite a small amp in a big box. Saying that, I would love to try one in a gig situation, and see how long it takes to ignite! I'm sure you could spend your £344 on something much more reliable.

[MB1]

MB1.

When is a tube not a tube?.......When its a virtual tube?............Right?

[P-T-P]

[quote name='Chopthebass' post='36486' date='Jul 24 2007, 05:47 PM']The words 'behringer' and 'amazing' don't go together, so I'd give up hoping! I was curious, so I had a look at the manual online.[/quote]

Based on my experience of Bheringer products, I have to disagree. My band has used a PMH5000 powered mixer for the past two years and it was briliant up to the point where it died as a result of an incident involving a falling PA stack. We've replaced it with a PMP5000 and that too is equally excellent. I have a Multicom Pro and their Ultrapatch and both are fantastic too.

I really don't understand the hatred for Behringer quite honestly. They make a bunch of great products and they make 'em available to the buying public at a lot less than competitor's equivalents. Like any company that has so many product lines, not everything is going to be the dingo's danglies.

As for their alledged ripping off other companies. They've been sued by Aphex, who won; by Mackie who went to court, made an ass of themselves and then settled out of court and Roland/BOSS had words about the Behringer stomp boxes but as it turned out the visual similarity was where it ended, internally they were very different. Behringer apparently agreed to make a minor change to the design and everyone was happy.

Do people who think Behringer are ripping off other companies have the same negative feelings about Lakland, Sadowsky, Tokai, Encore (any other company that make a Fender clone, be it cheaper copy or high end replica/refinement)?

Clearly Behringer aren't doing anything massively illegal because there's no way they could have got to be the massive corporation they are now if they were.

[paul, the]

I reckon some of, if not most of the people that bash Behringer haven't even heard or played their gear. As I mentioned, I have a BDI 21 which is supposed to be a rip off of Sans Amp. Whatever it's supposed to be, the difference of it being on and off is astounding. I can't believe I waited so long to get one. Read the reviews [url="http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Effects/product/Behringer/BDI21/10/1"]here[/url]. Yes, I'm sure the Sans Amp sounds better and realistic without a foam mute, but the BDI 21 cost me £17!


And even if you don't like their products, which provide new gear at an affordable price, you have to respect the sheer shamelessness of creating an amp called a BVT.

Those crazy Germans.

[rodl2005]

I'm with u Paul.....I mean -I got a behr. BDDI21 also- hardly ever use it now coz I got a big muf & the Fender 300PRO has a LOVELY OD on IT!!!!! :-) But SOME of their stuff IS OK!!! -I know this BDDI21 I've got has served me well-done loads of gigs, sounds good, works wellas a DI also-so it stays in my gig bag in case I need one!
But BVT!!!!!!!??????????? I see they've also made a "nuke 'em" or summink thats a SVT2PRO "look-a-like" 1000w(BEHR watts that is!!;-) with front panel a bit like the 2 pro & rack mountable!! Ha ha!!! Oh those crazy Bellringers!

[aj5string]

[quote name='P-T-P' post='36624' date='Jul 24 2007, 11:08 PM']I really don't understand the hatred for Behringer quite honestly. They make a bunch of great products and they make 'em available to the buying public at a lot less than competitor's equivalents. Like any company that has so many product lines, not everything is going to be the dingo's danglies.[/quote]

I rekon theres an element of people having just bought a boss pedal or whatever for about 5 times as much

Like people are saying, they might not sound quite as good as the real thing, but a lot of people dont have enough cash for the real thing - and dont actually [b]need[/b] to spend thousands of punds on things for the crappy pub gigs they are playing.

Also, people not having actually played the beh products, and being told by people that other things are better.

Alex.

PS - i dont own any beh stuff.

[Buzz]

Well, I know Ber stuff USED to have a rep for being a bit cheapy and breaking alot, but looking around the tinternets it seems they've improved QA massively and everything is much better and are liked alot better now.

I'd consider some stuff, might buy a compressor off them and maybe a cab later in the year.

[steve]

BVT - now that's funny

I'm sure they do it just to wind up the Behringer bashers

I'm expecting a new line of removeable head combos from Behr... called 'strollabout' or 'walkaround' soon.

I do find the people who bang on about Behrs lack of morality a little naive, this is business, and very few companies operate primarily on an ethical, moral basis. If Behr can hold up the legal process whilst they make their profit, blame the legal process, not someone who uses it to their advantage.

I do have a couple of Behringer bits - the rack tuner and some studio monitors. If behr had not bought out their versions, I would not have bought from their competitors, I would have done without. So in this instance, Behr didn't impact on the competition's sales, they allowed me to have more stuff. Huzzah!

[Oxblood]

When it comes to basic signal processing gear like mixers, effects, pre-amps etc., Behringer can get by pretty well. I have an old Behringer rackmount Mic pre-amp myself: the Pre-Q model 502. It was given to me as surplus by my brother. I use it now and then for recording vocals, and it's fine. Not the quietest thing on earth, but it works. Of course it does: it doesn't have to do anything very demanding or deliver any power.

The problems arise when Behringer apply this same corner-cutting, cheap 'n' cheerful manufacturing philosophy to items which ARE required to do demanding things - i.e. amplifiers and loudspeakers. They then compound the sin by advertising said flimsy trash by means of vague, impressive-sounding pseudo-technical nonsense and completely unrealistic performance claims.

The most telling factor is this: Behringer NEVER quote figures for power output (amplifiers) or power handling (speakers) in the generally accepted, measurable, comparable terms used by all respectable manufacturers throughout the industry: i.e. [b]RMS Watts[/b]. Instead, we get hyperbole: "An amazing X Hundred Watts of massive/earth-shaking/seismic (choose your favourite superlative) Bass Power!" - but nowhere in their literature will you ever find anything that quantifies exactly how these "hundreds of Watts" are being measured. If any of their amplifiers were actually capable of producing the wattages they claim to [i]in genuine RMS terms[/i] - and that automatically assumes being able to do so cleanly and reliably across the whole usable frequency range - Behringer would be only too keen to tell us about it. The fact that they don't (or rather DAREN'T) tells you everything you need to know.

ADDED LATER:
Good heavens, they must have heard me shouting all the way to Germany! Take a look at this: [url="http://www.behringerdownload.de/BB-Serie/BB210_SPECS_Rev_AB.pdf"]BB210 cabinet PDF spec sheet[/url]
In describing the power handling, it actually uses the letters RMS.

Nurse...the screens!

Aha. Wait a mo. Just one tiny problem. What it really says is "(RMS / Music)" - and therein lies their sneaky get-out clause. They've used the term "RMS" to fool the unwary into believing that they're actually talking genuine Root Mean Square measurement. In fact, they're talking "Music Power" - a discredited (disreputable, even) measurement regime invented in the 1960s for marketing cheap, low-powered home entertainment systems. It delivers figures that are impressively (but misleadingly) large. What "Music Power" describes is the maximum power the speakers are able to handle over a very short - almost instantaneous - period, such as the attack peak of a note. This is always far higher than the genuine average power handling capacity of the speaker over time.

In other words, the same old brand of flim-flam, smoke, mirrors and sleight-of-hand we've all become used to from Behringer.

Edited July 25, 2007 by Oxblood

[P-T-P]

[quote name='Oxblood' post='36889' date='Jul 25 2007, 02:46 PM']When it comes to basic signal processing gear like mixers, effects, pre-amps etc., Behringer can get by pretty well. I have an old Behringer rackmount Mic pre-amp myself: the Pre-Q model 502. It was given to me as surplus by my brother. I use it now and then for recording vocals, and it's fine. Not the quietest thing on earth, but it works. Of course it does: it doesn't have to do anything very demanding or deliver any power.

The problems arise when Behringer apply this same corner-cutting, cheap 'n' cheerful manufacturing philosophy to items which ARE required to do demanding things - i.e. amplifiers and loudspeakers - and then compound the sin by advertising said flimsy trash by means of vague, impressive-sounding pseudo-technical nonsense and completely unrealistic performance claims.

The most telling factor is this: Behringer NEVER quote figures for power output (amplifiers) or power handling (speakers) in the generally accepted, measurable, comparable terms used by all respectable manufacturers throughout the industry: i.e. [b]RMS Watts[/b]. Instead, we get hyperbole: "An amazing X Hundred Watts of massive/earth-shaking/seismic (choose your favourite superlative) Bass Power!" - but nowhere in their literature will you ever find anything that quantifies exactly how these "hundreds of Watts" are being measured. If any of their amplifiers were actually capable of producing the wattages they claim to [i]in genuine RMS terms[/i] - and that automatically assumes being able to do so cleanly and reliably across the whole usable frequency range - Behringer would be only too keen to tell us about it. The fact that they don't (or rather DAREN'T) tells you everything you need to know.

ADDED LATER:
Good heavens, they must have heard me shouting all the way to Germany! Take a look at this: [url="http://www.behringerdownload.de/BB-Serie/BB210_SPECS_Rev_AB.pdf"]BB210 cabinet PDF spec sheet[/url]
In describing the power handling, it actually uses the letters RMS.

Nurse...the screens!

Aha. Wait a mo. Just one tiny problem. What it really says is "(RMS / Music)" - and therein lies their sneaky get-out clause. They've used the term "RMS" to fool the unwary into believing that they're actually talking genuine Root Mean Square measurement. In fact, they're talking "Music Power" - a discredited (disreputable, even) measurement system invented in the 1960s for marketing cheap, low-powered home entertainment systems. It delivers figures that are impressively (but misleadingly) large. What "Music Power" describes is the maximum power the speakers are able to handle over a very short - almost instantaneous - period, such as the attack peak of a note. This is always far higher than the genuine average power handling capacity of the speaker over time.

In other words, the same old brand of flim-flam, smoke, mirrors and sleight-of-hand we've all become used to from Behringer. [/quote]

And yet the specs for the Behringer mixer I have state clearly both the RMS and peak output figures. As does the spec sheet for the B1220 PRO, B1520 PRO and B1800X PRO and it is the RMS figure they are quoting in the sales blurb. I can't be arsed looking through all the products but I'm guessing their newer stuff like my mixer and those cabs are quoting RMS figures now.

They are far from the only company - in the music industry or otherwise - who use selective specifications in their sales blurb. I just looked quickly at the Roland site and sure enough for their Cube 30 and 15 there is no mention of how those 30w or 15w are measured, either on the product page or the spec sheet/brochure.

Oh and my mixer is not cheap 'n' cheerful and there don't appear to have been any corners cut either. It sounds fantastic and has more than enough poke, certainly it seems easily as loud as hoped for based on their figures.

Edited July 25, 2007 by P-T-P

[Krysbass]

I used a Behringer BX108 15w practice amp for about 5 years. Before buying it, I compared it against the Peavey Microbass, which I had actually gone into the store intending to buy.

IMHO, the Behringer trounced the Peavey in terms of sound quality and features, it looked better too (really vintage) and was only slightly over half the price of the Peavey. What's more, the BX108 has to be one of the most noise-free amps I have ever used.

My son uses the Behringer now as a guitar amp - it handles this role just fine too.

I tend to find that it's best not to be too influenced by particular brands - Behringer make some good products, just like some of the big brands make some bad ones.

[mxm]

Very quickly....and in all honesty....I've got an SVT and when i really can't be arsed lugging it about I'll occasionally (depending on the style of music to be played) use my 24 quid Behringer BDI 21 (via power amp) and have never ceased to be impressed by the 'SVT-a-like' sound it makes !!!!

I dare say the BDI 21 is a clone of a Sansamp....